9 replies to this topic

[Arpa]

WHEN WAS ARMENIA NAMED HAY-A-STAN, HYE-STAN?

I don’t know. Does anyone know?

This is not a joke. I am serious.

We don’t mean this Stan of Laurel and Hardy fame.*
http://4.bp.blogspot...Stan_Laurel.jpg

http://hyeforum.com/...=1

Some advance the notion that it was called so as it rhymes with HAYASA.

Hayasa-Azzi or Azzi-Hayasa (Armenian: Հայասա) was a Late Bronze Age confederation formed between two petty kingdoms of Anatolia, Hayasa located South of Trabzon and Azzi, located North of the Euphrates and to the South of Hayasa. The Hayasa-Azzi confederation were in conflict with the Hittite Empire in the 14th century BC, leading up to the collapse of Hatti around 1290

According to some, the earliest mention of Armenia is at the stele at Behistun. I’m not sure how exactly it was spelled. Oh! No! Wait. Look here The "am" ending denotes plural;

daka \ avam \ adam \ frâišayam \ Arminam \ avathâšaiy \ athaham \ paraidiy \ kâra \
----
(6) King Darius says: These are the countries which are subject unto me, and by the grace of Ahuramazda I became king of them: Persia, Elam, Babylonia, Assyria, Arabia, Egypt, the countries by the Sea, Lydia, the Greeks, Media, Armenia, Cappadocia, Parthia, Drangiana, Aria, Chorasmia, Bactria, Sogdia, Gandara, Scythia, Sattagydia, Arachosia and Maka; twenty-three lands in all.

Here is how it was depicted in that “book”. Note the various translations and interpretations.

2Kgs.19
[37] And it came to pass, as he was worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adrammelech and Sharezer his sons smote him with the sword: and they escaped into the land of Armenia. And Esar-haddon his son reigned in his stead.
Isa.37
[38] And it came to pass, as he was worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adrammelech and Sharezer his sons smote him with the sword; and they escaped into the land of Armenia**: and Esar-haddon his son reigned in his stead.

ՄԱՐԳԱՐԷՈՒԹԻՒՆ ԵՍԱՅԱՅ

38Եւ ﬕնչ նա իր Նասրաք աստծու տաճարի մէջ երկրպագում էր իր կուռքին, նրա որդիները՝ Ադրաﬔլէքը և Սարասարը, սրով սպանեցին նրան և իրենք փախստական գնացին Հայաստան***: Իսկ նրա փոխարէն թագաւորեց նրա որդին՝ Ասորդանը:

Verse: 38 Եւ մինչդեռ երկի́ր պագանէր ՛ի տան իւրում նասրաքայ կռո́ց իւրոց, ադրամելեք եւ սարասար որդիք ն(ո)ր(ա) սպանին զնա սրով, եւ ինքեանք գնացին փախստական ՛ի հայս: եւ թագաւորեաց ասորդան որդի ն(ո)ր(ա) ընդ ն(ո)ր(ա):

*Btw, I found out what the name Stan/Stanley means
**The paper version says the “land of Ararat”
***The paper version I have says “Արարադի Երկիր” (Note that they spell it with the letter Դ as in Արարադ/Ararad.

I have not searched extensively to see what our classical historians have said, and what they called our Homeland. Here is what Khorenatsi says. From what I have seen most of them refer to it as HAYK, Mets Hayk and Poqr Hayk, or Hayots Ashkharh. If you know any different, please let us know.

Առ որով տեսանեմ եւ զայս, զի եթէ որք յառաջ քան զմեզ եւ կամ առ մեօք եղեն հարուստք եւ իշխանք աշխարհիս Հայոց,

In case the text does not show, see it in Unicode.

Առ որով տեսանեմ եւ զայս , ցի գիտէորք յառաջ քան զմեզ եւ կամ առ մէօքեղեն հարուստք եւ իշխանք Աշխարհիս Հայոց

If I am reading correctly?

As I see it, if there were those before us , or did our princely rich rule the ARMENIAN WORLD?

The Armatakan does not say any more than this, that it means Royal Estate. Capital city surrounded by orchards and vineyards.

Ոստան նշանակում Է «արքունի կալուածք», «իշխանանիստ», «մայրաքաղաք»: Այն տարբեր ժամանակներում և տարբեր պատմագիրներ հիշատակում են իբրև բերդ, գ, ավան, ք ևն:

Some synonyms-

ՈՍՏԱՆ Մայրաքաղաք, քաղաքամայր, գահանիստ

Anyone remember this old song? Let me see if I remember.

Հայաստանի ոստան, սիրուն Երեւան,
Դաշտում Արարատեան հարուստ մրգաստան
Հէյ ջան Երեւան, գեղեցիկ ոստան….

In addition to the below.
WE must be one of the few people to attach -stan to the names of countries. Like Rusastan, dajkistan=furkey, Vrastan, Hunastan, Hndkastan,Hryastan, Chinastan, Parskastan, Asorestan, Habeshistan/Abyssinia/Ethiopia and Lehastan=Poland. :oops : I lied. See “lehestan” below. Not to forget that some call Hungary .magyaristan/majaristan, just as they call our Homeland “emenistan” while our Arab neighbors call it “emeniya“.. Remember when that clown Netanyahu called Palestine “hamastan”?

-stan
The suffix -stan (-ston, -stān, spelled ـستان in the Perso-Arabic script) is Persian for "place of", a cognate to Pashto -tun and to Indo-Aryan -sthāna (pronounced [st̪ʰaːna]) (स्थान in the Devanāgarī script), a Sanskrit suffix with a similar meaning. In Indo-Aryan languages, sthāna means "place", and is cognate to the Latin terms state and status (meaning "to stand").
The suffix also appears in the names of many regions, especially in Central and South Asia, areas where ancient Indo-Iranian peoples were established; in Iranian, however, it is also used more generally, as in Persian and Urdu rigestan (ريگستان) 'place of sand, desert' and golestan (گلستان) 'place of roses, rose garden', Hindi/Sanskrit devasthan (place of devas, "temple"), etc. Both suffixes are of Indo-Iranian and ultimately Indo-European origin, the Proto-Indo-European root being *stā- 'stand,' which is also the source of English stand, Latin stāre, and Greek histamai (ίσταμαι), all meaning 'stand,' as well as many other words, for instance the Russian word стан (stan) meaning 'settlement' or 'semi-permanent camp' (used in reference to semi-nomadic settlements encountered in certain areas of Central Asia) or in other Slavic languages such as Serbian/Bosnian/Croatian/Montenegrin where stan means 'apartment' in its modern usage, while its original meaning is 'habitat'. Also in Germanic languages the root can be found in the words Stand (place, location) or in Stadt (German), stad (Dutch/Scandinavian) stêd (West Frisian) and stead (English), all meaning 'city'.
The suffix -stan occurs in the following names, mostly toponyms:

Regions
Arabistan — refers to Arab lands in Middle East.
Ardestan — a town in Isfahan Province, Iran.
Avaristan — Avari name for Avari land in Dagestan (Russia)
Baharestan - is a famous historical carpet, a square and district in downtown Tehran where the Iranian Parliament is located and a collection of poems by Persian poet Jami modeled upon the Gulistan of Sa'di
Balawaristan — another name for northern Pakistani Kashmir.
Balochistan — region in Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Baltistan — a northern region in Pakistan.
Bantustan — Apartheid-era South African black 'homelands'; the term is coined by an analogy
Bargustan/Borgustan — to the north of modern Kislovodsk, mentioned by Evliya Çelebi[1]
Bashkortostan (Bashkiria) — constituent republic of Russia
Baloristan (Gilgit-Chitral) is the name of a region of Pakistani Kashmir.
Cholistan Desert — a desert region in Pakistan
Dagestan — constituent republic of the Russian Federation, literally "place of mountains"
Dardistan — a region in northern Pakistan
Dashtestan — a region in Bushehr Province, Iran - its center is Borazjan.
East Pakistan (or Bangalistan / Bangistan, refers to the historic name for pre-independence Bangladesh)
Frangistan (Persian:فرنگستان farangestān) [2] to refer to Western Europe. (or Frankistan i.e. land of Franks)
Golestan - a province in northern Iran which center is Gorgan
Gulistan (Golestan) ("rose garden" in Persian, an Iranian province and a city in Uzbekistan; compare with Gulistan Palace in Tehran and the collection of poems by Saadi)
Hindustan — land of the Indus, of (Hindus). Coined by the ancient Persians. Also used by the British ruling in then the British India empire, generally talking about South Asia. Now primarily refers Republic of India. "Hindustani" is also an umbrella term for several similar languages including Hindi (primarily spoken in India) and Urdu (primarily spoken in Pakistan).
Hunistan, Chenestan — kingdom of Huns in the modern territory of Kumyks[3]
Inglistan - England in Urdu (Now Obsolete).
Kabulistan — ("The Kabul land" — old term used in many historical books and old Persian literature books for Kabul. Kabulistan contained a larger region than today's Kabul Province. Some times it is called as the country of Kabulistan)
Kafiristan — ("land of the infidels"), historic region in Afghanistan until 1896, now known as Nuristan. A similarly named region exists in north Pakistan.
Karakalpakstan — constituent republic of Uzbekistan
Khuzestan — a province of southwestern Iran
Kohistan — several regions of this name
Kordestan — a Kurdish province in Iran
Kurdistan — Kurdish region
Larestan — a region in Bushehr Province, Iran - its center is Lar.
Lazistan — another name for Colchis, a region in the Caucasus
Lehestan — Poland in Persian based on ancient Lęch tribes.
Lorestan or Luristan — a province of western Iran
North Waziristan — northern part of Waziristan region in Pakistan
Nurestan Province (Nuristan) — Afghanistan, formed in 2001
Pashtunistan or Pakhtunistan or Pathanistan — is what many Pashtun nationalists call the Pashtun-dominated areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Polistan - Poland in Urdu (Now Obsolete).
Rajasthan — a regional state within the Republic of India
Registan — historic site in Samarkand, meaning "place of sand"
Russian Turkestan — Turkestan in the Russian Empire, later Turkestan Autonomous SSR
Sakastan — region of Afghanistan and Pakistan where Scythians or Sakas resided in the 2nd century BCE.
Saraikistan — A proposed region in southern Punjab province of Pakistan
Sarvestan — a town in Fars Province, Iran.
Seistan or Sistan — a province of Iran and Afghanistan
South Waziristan southern part of Waziristan region in Pakistan
Tabaristan — a historical region along the southern coasts of Caspian Sea
Takestan — a town in Qazvin Province, Iran.
Talyshistan — ethnolinguistic region in the SE Caucasus and NW Iran
Tangestan — a region in Bushehr Province, Iran - its center is Ahram.
Tatarstan — a constituent republic of the Russian Federation
Tocharistan, Tukharistan or Tokharistan, also known as Balkh or Bactria — the ancient name of a historical region in Central Asia, located between the range of the Hindu Kush and the Amu Darya (Oxus)
Turkestan — ethnolinguistic region encompassing Central Asia, northwest China, parts of the Caucasus and Asia Minor
Uyghurstan/East Turkestan — Region dominated by the Turkic Uyghur people, located in the north west of People's Republic Of China
Vilandazistan - Holland in Urdu (Now Obsolete).
Waziristan — region of northwest Pakistan
Zabulistan — a historical region in the border area of today's Iran and Afghanistan, around the city Zabol
Zanjistan, or Zenjistan — term used in medieval texts to refer to the homeland of the Zanj, black slaves of probably East African origin
---
Proposed names

Uyghuristan — (variants East Turkestan & Uighurstan) proposed ethnic name for Xinjiang, People's Republic of China
Khalistan or Sikhistan, a proposed country created from areas within India with a Sikh majority.
Maronistan, a proposed name for Maronite state in Lebanon during the Lebanese Civil War.

Edited by Arpa, 25 June 2011 - 05:06 AM.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Finally someone has spoken about this issue. Apres Arpa jan.

[Arpa]

VRASTAN
Why did Simon the Prime Minister of the First Armenian Republic have the surname of Vratsian?**
**Seems like his original surname was Gruzinian.

18 Feb 1921 - ? Jun 1921 Սիմոն Նազարի Վրացյան (Simon Nazari Vrac‘yan), original surname (?): Կրուզինյան (Krouzinyan)

http://www.archontol..._1920_22_s.php]

----

GEORGIA CALLS ON WORLD TO USE 'GEORGIA'

Tert.am
27.06.11

The Republic of Georgia has called on foreign countries to use the
English-language version of the country's name - Georgia - rather
than other versions.

Deputy Georgian Foreign Minister Nino Kalandadze said Georgia has
already sent official requests to other countries over the issue.

"We took this initiative long ago, and have sent written requests
to several countries so that 'Vrastan' [also Gruzia] be renamed into
the country's English version of 'Georgia'," she was quoted as saying.

Kalandadze also said that South Korea has already responded to their
request, and the country is now referred to as "Georgia" there.

Further, she said that Georgiia will continue efforts to have all
countries use the English version of the country's name.

We know why we call it Vrastan, from Iberia/Iveria/Virq.

About the etymology of the word - Georgia
Georgians call themselves Kartveli (Kartvelebi pl.) and their land Sakartvelo (საქართველო). According to the Georgian historical sources, these names are derived from a pagan god called Kartlos, said to be the father of all Georgians. The central part of Georgia is also called Kartli. The Classical world knew the inhabitants of eastern Georgia as Iberians, and the country – Iberia (or Iveria). West Georgian tribes were known as Colchians and the country – Colchis (kolkha, kolkheti). Georgians called Iberia – Kartli, and Colchis – Egrisi (which was later replaced by Lazeti (Lazika), Abkhazeti, Imereti).
The foreign name "Georgia", used throughout Western Europe, is believed to come from the country's patron saint, St. George (traditionally displayed on coat of arms and flags of Georgia). Although, it could be derived from the Greek word "geo" (earth), because when the Greeks came to Georgia they saw the Georgians working the land. Another theory purports that the name comes from the names Gorg, Kurj or Gurj (gorg- means wolf in Parsian), by which they are known to the Arabs, Turks and Persians. They call Georgia Giurji-stan (Gurjistan). The Russian name Gruzia is derived from Gurjistan. Armenians call Georgia Vrastan, wich is probably derived from Iveria (Iberia=Kartli), East Georgia's ancient name.

http://www.oldmaps.g...minanqari-2.JPG

Edited by Arpa, 28 June 2011 - 08:58 AM.

[Arpa]

Still no clue who, when and why added the “(a)-stan” suffix to Hay.

See below that it was done during the Middle Ages.

http://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D5%80%D5%A1%D5%B5%D5%A1%D5%BD%D5%BF%D5%A1%D5%B6

Անվան ստուգաբանություն-Հայաստանի անվանում Հայոց անվանադիր նախնին Հայկն** է: Սերունդները հետագայում նրա անունով էլ կոչվել են՝ հայկազունք, հայք, հայեր, երկիրը՝ Հայք***, Հայոց աշխարհ: Միջին դարերում «Հայ» արմատին ավելացավ «-ստան»՝ տեղանք նշանակող վերջածանցը, և երկրի անունը դարձավ Հայաստան:

Համաձայն Մովսես Խորենացու և Միքայել Չամչյանի՝ «Արմենիա» անունն սկիզբ է առել Արամ անունից, ով Հայկ Նահապետի ուղիղ ժառանգորդն էր:

**See the connection to Haik

***We know that the Q suffix as in ՀայՔ/ HayQ denotes plural in Classical Armenian, meaning ՀայԵՐ/ArmenianS

Edited by Arpa, 17 October 2013 - 04:27 PM.

[Harut]

Still no clue who, when and why added the “(a)-stan” suffix to Hay.

 

most likely a Turkish influence... note how most -stan countrynames in Armenian are also so in Turkish... again, most likely, taking the Turkish (the official?) name and adding the Armenian root to it...

[Arpa]

 

most likely a Turkish influence... note how most -stan countrynames in Armenian are also so in Turkish... again, most likely, taking the Turkish (the official?) name and adding the Armenian root to it...

 

　

Yes Harut, that sounds logical, if somewhat anachronistic, we must remember that we had extensive contacts with those who spoke Sanskrit and Persian, long before we met those dogs..

Read more about Stan, istan, istHan here.

http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-21211,00.html

Read above the input by many who seem to be just plain amateurs, where most of the comments refer to the name of Pakistan, i.e The Land of the Pure Maybe?**

Observe where someone says it is from thw Sanskrit StHan where in time the H is omitted to Stan.

Obviously it is not of furkish origin,  otherwise they would call their land furkestan or osmanistan

 

Stan' is derived from the Sanskrit word 'Sthan' for 'place or land' of somebody. Sanskrit language is the mother of all Indo-europian languages. Even English words like 'mother (matra), 'father (pitra), etc. are derived from this ancient language. 'Stan' word occuring in Uzbekistan, Turmenistan, Kazhakistan, etc. testify the fact that the peoples of these lands owe their ethnic origin from a single stock.

 

Once again. I wish I could find when and who renamed Armenia HAY-a-STAN. Note that even those dogs call our Homeland “ermenistan”, while the Arabs call it “ermeniya/armaniya”, not Armenistan

Just as the Persian call Armenia Erminia.

أرمينيا

Edited by Arpa, 20 October 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Arpa]

I found something, even if very sloppy scholarship.

http://armenianhouse.org/avetisyan/hayq.html

Page 261...

Below we read that the name Hayastan was first used by the historian Agathangelos in the 5^th c. AD**. But it is very confused and confusing. Is he saying that the land was called Hayastan until it divided into Greater and Lesser Hayqs? Or is he saying the reverse?

If this is true, the question is. Where and when did Agathangelos hear and see the -stan suffix?

 

Մնացել են նաև շատ նահապետների և դյուցազունների անունԻնչպես հայտնի է, կազմավորված ժողովուրդը «հայաս» ցեղի անունով կոչվում է հայ, իսկ երկիրը՝ Հայաստան: Հայաստան անունը առաջին անգամ օգտագործել է հինգերորդ դարի պատմիչ Ագաթանգեղոսը, չնայած հայ անվան վերջածանցը ոչ միշտ է եղել «ստան»: Դրան փոխարինել է «ք» տառը, որը ավելացվելով ժողովրդի անվան, դարձել է երկրի անուն:

 

No wonder many question our historiography as it is written so sloppily and lackadaisical, with no tangible evidence.

**Note. Agathangelos is believed to have been a Roman, who came to Armenia and became Trdat’s secretary. He wrote his opus in Greek in the 4^th c. which was only translated to Armenian in the 5^5h c.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agathangelos

http://www.vehi.net/istoriya/armenia/agathangelos/en/AGATHANGELOS.html

[hagopn]

Good question to ask.

 

As to the meaning of the term, it is Armenian in origin.  Well, Avestani, which is an IE language, i.e. Armenian, from Armenian most likely.  Remember that the only historically corroborated location of Zoroaster's (Avestani) beginnings were in Armenia, Lesser Armenia, Commagene, etc.

 

The term "astan" literally means "seat."  "Nist" is the Armenian equivalent/cognate.

[hagopn]

 

most likely a Turkish influence... note how most -stan countrynames in Armenian are also so in Turkish... again, most likely, taking the Turkish (the official?) name and adding the Armenian root to it...

 

I think the above is likely wrong. 

 

Which Turkish, the Ottoman or Seljuk?  Then why did Armenian not living in the Ottoman empire begin using the same term?  I am also not certain if the term did not predate the Ottomans.

[Arpa]

Yes Hagop. I am sure we used the term long before we met you-know-who.

The more I think about it the less convinced I am that Agathangelos in fact used the word Χαγιαστάν/ Hayastan as we pronounce it. Assuming that he originally wrote in the Greek script, where there is no letter or the sound of H. Look below and see how they transliterate both Armenia and Hayastan. The Greeks use and pronounce X (khsi) instead. Did he write Αρμενία that we now are interpreting as Hayastan?

As in re Greater and Lesser Hayq , are we saying that he used the word Armenia as a name for the Union of both?

Let me repeat Sloppy Scholarship, and absence of thorough knowledge of languages, including Armenian. Just as the likes of Bedrosian assume ChEnats/Jenats is a typo, and that it is meant to be ChInats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia%E2%80%93Greece_relations

 

Names[=In the Greek language, Armenia is called Αρμενία (Armenia), the Armenians are called Αρμένιοι (Armenii) and the Armenian language is called αρμένικα (Armenica). In the Armenian language, Greece is called Հունաստան (Hounastan), the Greeks are called հույներ (Houyner) and the Greek language is called Հունարեն (Hounaren). The Greek transcription of the Armenian word for Armenia (Հայաստան) is Χαγιαστάν (Hayiastan).