127 replies to this topic

[Iran01]

http://www.sasanika....0Sasanika-2.pdf

page 11: Bazmok/Bazm

[Arpa]

http://www.sasanika....0Sasanika-2.pdf

page 11: Bazmok/Bazm

Yes, Iran # 1 we do use that word, however with a twist. Thank you.
As I mentioned before in that article there are so many more words and names that are common to both of our languages as there are historical ones such as Anahit, Khosrow, Trdat and others. We will leave them aside and perhaps treat them under a separate proper topic. Oh! btw there is another word in that same paragraph which is also used in Armenian, "barj" commonly written as "barts" means pillow.

Too bad that site does not allow copy and paste, unless I don't know how.

That word "bazm/bazum" is not used in the sense of feast in Armenian but it is somehow related.
When I staretd my search I was hoping that it would somehow lead me to the other usage of "bazum" but it turned out one "bazum" was not related to the other. The other "bazum/bazoum" I am referring to is its use as "multiple", my hope was that since the common usage in Armenian of your word of "bazm" has to do with "sit" I was hoping that in its use of "sitting on a cushion, i.e. "reclining/spreading" would eventually appear as spread/multiply/grow, but that was not the case.

As mentioned above in Armenian the word appears in the verb form "bazmil/to sit". We have another word for "sit", "nstil". There is a slight difference and a nuance, while nstil simply means to sit bazmil on the other hand refers to sitting in a ceremonial fashion, i.e. at a feast. As mentioned above we do use the word more specifically to mean ceremonial sitting as a king would (spread) at a banquet table/sufra, we also use it to mean to sit on a cushion hence the Armenian word for cushion-bazmots.

As to the other "bazoum" that we use as "multiple", it derives from the PIE*** "bzng'hu" (don't ask me how) which in fact means many, wide, large so our use as in bazmativ/numerous, bazmutyun/multitude, bazmapatkel/to multiply, bazmapatik/many folds(as used in bazmapatkel) etc. is from the fact that the word has been remanded to the status of an adjunct to stress the superlative nature of a word, in other words it is a kind of a superlative prefix as the English suffix -est, or the Greek prefix "mega".

***No Sip, it is not a dessert

Edited by Arpa, 24 May 2004 - 03:12 PM.

[Iran01]

BTW, Is there any Armenian word for "makeup"? Something as "bazak"?

[nairi]

BTW, Is there any Armenian word for "makeup"? Something as "bazak"?

Rouge Or else kosmetika or nerk (paint), like shrtnanerk (lipstick). I don't know, I don't use much make-up. Grim is more make-up for artists.

[Arpa]

Rouge Or else kosmetika or nerk (paint), like shrtnanerk (lipstick). I don't know, I don't use much make-up. Grim is more make-up for artists.

All of the above.
The one word that I know is "shpar" which, (I looked it up) is supposed to be from the Assyrian "shappir", literally beautiful. It is commonly used to mean rouge whrther for the face or the lips. It is also used as verb as in "shparvil".
No, no "bazak".

[Iran01]

Rouge ..or other fine French words are used in modern Persian too.
But I was thinking of "pure" words. For example "ârâyesh" in modern Persian means makeup. It comes from older word , "ârâstan" which means to trim, furnish...
"Bazak" isnt used in modern Persian so much.

Btw, why do you chop/chomp first vowel in Armenian: shrtnanerk , nstil...
Is it the way the word is pronounced or has it to do with Armenian alphabet?

[Teutonic Knight]

Bazm? Well bazmativ means MANY, bazm+a+tiv(number)-many numbers. As opposed to shat which I guess would stand for - a lot.
Bazmoc means couch.

[Teutonic Knight]

Makeup in Armenian would be dimahardarank.
Dim comes from demk, compare to dimagits, "a" being a shaghkap.

[Iran01]

Too bad that site does not allow copy and paste, unless I don't know how.

Do you mean how to copy/paste from PDF-format?

On the pdf-menu you have the icon "T". Activate it if necessary, then mark the text and right click and copy.

[Iran01]

Armenian is indeed a very interesting language from Persian perspective.
I was looking at this site ( In Persian script) : http://armanestan.persianblog.com
There is a section about Armenian and Persian languages....

The word "arzân" , "ârzhan" :

While in modern Persian it means "cheap", in Armenian it means "suitable, fit".
But sometimes in prayer in Persian people still say: God thank you making your gifts "arzan" to us..!

[Teutonic Knight]

Armenian is indeed a very interesting language from Persian perspective.
I was looking at this site ( In Persian script) : http://armanestan.persianblog.com
There is a section about Armenian and Persian languages....

The word "arzân" , "ârzhan" :

While in modern Persian it means "cheap", in Armenian it means "suitable, fit".
But sometimes in prayer in Persian people still say: God thank you making your gifts "arzan" to us..!

In Armenian it means cheap also.
EZHAN

Edited by Teutonic Knight, 25 May 2004 - 05:19 PM.

[Harut]

and some western speakers use "azhan"

[angel4hope]

Rouge ..or other fine French words are used in modern Persian too.
But I was thinking of "pure" words. For example "ârâyesh" in modern Persian means makeup. It comes from older word , "ârâstan" which means to trim, furnish...
"Bazak" isnt used in modern Persian so much.

Btw, why do you chop/chomp first vowel in Armenian: shrtnanerk , nstil...
Is it the way the word is pronounced or has it to do with Armenian alphabet?

interestingly enough i have hears people call it "svaghvel" meaning something to do with cement- construction i believe- very funny trm to use

[Arpa]

Yes, "svagh-el" is used as well, in fact in the pure form it is "seva" the gh ending is a modification as we will see below when we juxtapose it with the Armenian, in the above form it is not proper Armenian and it is too (forgive the pun)uncooth/antash/rough. It is commonly used as in to "plaster" a wall. It is commonly considered Turkish, the Armenian word is "tsep-el/dzepel". But wait a minute. It seems like both "sva(gh)" and "tsep" have a common ancestor. There is no "ts" or "dz" in turkish, they turn into S and Z respectively. Some old Armenians from so-called Turkish Armenia(an oxymoron) would say; Zo barekam, sav@d tanem".**
Who borrowed from whom?

Yes, ezhan (eastern) and azhan (western are both official and both mean cheap, low priced.

I'll be!!!

In proper circles it is considered a mortal sin to use "arzhan" to mean cheap. Those who use the one with the R to mean the one without it are looked down as barbarians and are accused of poor mastery of the language.

Blow me down!!! As that great philosopher Popeye would say.***

It turns out that all three versions, azhan, ezhan and arzhan are derived from the same origin, i.e the last one, the one with the R (from the Pahlavi "arzan" which in fact means proper, becoming, WORTHY. I read the monograph a million times yet I cannot make out as to how one word acquires a totally different meaning, a meaning that is a totally opposite, a rotation of 180 degrees?

Let's play a game. Let us see how many words are composed with "arzhan" (worthy, precious/pricy) as the base. I will begin with "hargarzhan/arzhanapativ Ter Hayr".

I still maintain that the peoper Armenian word is "shpar/shaperel". YOu may also consider ("Hambartsum yayla... zugvel en dashter...") zugvil, zugaran.
Dear Iran01, also consider "nakhsh/nakshun".

** Don't be scandalized. I can write about dzo, tso, as in "tso tgha"!, lo, lao, qa , as in "qa ahgchik"!, qla as well.

*** When George W's father asked him who had cut the cherrry tree down, little Georgy answered; "Popeye did"!! Can you see what he actually meant?

[Iran01]

In proper circles it is considered a mortal sin to use "arzhan" to mean cheap. Those who use the one with the R to mean the one without it are looked down as barbarians and are accused of poor mastery of the language.


It turns out that all three versions, azhan, ezhan and arzhan are derived from the same origin, i.e the last one, the one with the R (from the Pahlavi "arzan" which in fact means proper, becoming, WORTHY. I read the monograph a million times yet I cannot make out as to how one word acquires a totally different meaning, a meaning that is a totally opposite, a rotation of 180 degrees?

Dear Arpa

That was my point, Those "proper circle" are right.

plz look in Armenian poetry, writting .... . I am sure you will see the usage of:
light/heavy and cheap/expensive
are not as it is expected to be. It will confirm thier arguments....


The word "cheap" is more associated to "weight" ! The price-level is defined as "worth to best". It is hard to explain, but when I saw the the definition of "arzân" as suitable, worthy in Armenian..I got an "aha" experience since the word "garân" ( expensive in Persian ) confirm the correct meaning of "arzhan".

[Iran01]

Nairi

Nâiri, Nâirikâ

An Avestan's word for "devouted married woman" .

http://armanestan.persianblog.com
http://www.avesta.or...avdict.htm#dctn

[shaunt]

Us Persian-Armenians have a lot of Iranisms in our Armenian, .

And it's interesting how I don't even realize this. There are so many words I took to be Armenian, but they were straight up Persian. Sometimes I remark to my mom that at times it seems most of our words come from Persian, and she agrees, giving me a list, .

[nairi]

Nairi

Nâiri, Nâirikâ

An Avestan's word for "devouted married woman" .

http://armanestan.persianblog.com
http://www.avesta.or...avdict.htm#dctn

Brilliant! I didn't know this. See here:

http://hyeforum.com/...ic=1539&hl=naru

By the way, is there a word for great-grandmother in Farsi? There doesn't seem to be one in Armenian. We call our grandmothers and great (great-great-great- etc.) grandmothers "tatik" or "metsmam". The same goes for our great-grandfathers, either "papik" or "metspap". Although this may differ in dialects. From what I understand, in Armenia "metspap" means "great-grandfather" and "papik" grandfather. So what's a great-great-grandfather?

And it's interesting how I don't even realize this. There are so many words I took to be Armenian, but they were straight up Persian. Sometimes I remark to my mom that at times it seems most of our words come from Persian, and she agrees, giving me a list, .

I'll never forget my mom asking me to bring shaqar (sugarcubes) and when I brought them, she said: "No, not ghand. Shaqar". Meaning: shaqar = (granulated) sugar, ghand = sugarcubes. In "proper" Armenian, granulated sugar is "shaqaravaz" (lit. sugar sand) and sugarcube is "shaqar".



Welcome to hyeforum Shaunt.

[Iran01]

Brilliant! I didn't know this. See here:

http://hyeforum.com/...ic=1539&hl=naru

By the way, is there a word for great-grandmother in Farsi? There doesn't seem to be one in Armenian. We call our grandmothers and great (great-great-great- etc.) grandmothers "tatik" or "metsmam". The same goes for our great-grandfathers, either "papik" or "metspap". Although this may differ in dialects. From what I understand, in Armenia "metspap" means "great-grandfather" and "papik" grandfather. So what's a great-great-grandfather?

Something was funny there and I will not ask so much


Anyway, interesting thread about names by Arpa , You ,...

What goes for "Naire" ( male) "Nâiri" (female):
What I can recall, for ex the ancestor of Rostam ( hero of heros in Shahname) is mentioned as "Sâm Narimân (= Sâm the hero, the male, the brave..)". And the modern word "nar" is devoted to "male animals". So it dosent sounds so good to be refered as "nar" in modern Persian But on other hand it is considered as very beautifull to have last name such as: "Narimân".


Check this one, plz: http://www.canada-os...yston/saga.html
This the mythology of ossetians. It is story about "Narts".
There is a theory that the "Nart" has its root in some indo-European languages as : "male".

It is indeed very interesting with names. For ex "Ânush" in Armenian is used mainly for girls name, but in Persian both for boys and girls.

What goes for grand..grand..father/mother ! I dont know. Nothing I can recall now. I know in some Iranian dialects "mâmik" or modern "mâmi" is used by children to show thier affection....In old/new Persian these words are used for father/mother : pedar/bâb/bâbâ and mâdar/mâm/mâmâ.
The only word I can recall close to grand....grand is: "niâ or niâkân" which means ancestor. Otherwise "mâdar/pedar bozorg" is used for grand father/mother.

[Stormig]

Check this one, plz: http://www.canada-os...yston/saga.html
This the mythology of ossetians. It is story about "Narts".
There is a theory that the "Nart" has its root in some indo-European languages as : "male".

Mind you, not to Ossetians only. I'm not even sure that John Colarusso has studied Ossetian versions of the Nart tales.