98 replies to this topic

[Kazza]

Thoth, ssssmmee! Pls email me!!!! Or PM me

[Kazza]

Actually, don't bother to rush..,,. I shall be 2morrow,K(well, reeely.)

[MJ]

I don't know if you think I said something disparaging towards you in some way or such - if so I am sorry. Again - I think you are doing a great job here (just a little draconian and perhaps overly critical [and competitive it seems to me] at times).

Not at all. I was just trying to understand what you were referring to. Besides, I knew that the comment I questioned was not directed at me. All I was trying was to make you to be more explicit, rather than expecting the reader to understand your mind.

Just the same - I think Steve has some very serious and legitimate points...(and I think you are considering them more than he believes you are - IMO)
If I would’ve not considered his points, I would’ve not gotten out of my way pursuing the issue.
I also think he has some personal problems dealing with people (I sugggest you peruse some of my more detailed comments to him on Thorny's forum to get more of an appreciation of this if you care).
You can find similar assertions from me in this thread.

I am (or more accurratly could be) hurt from some of the accusations Steve has made towards Armenians - not that they are necessarily all wrong - just perhaps exaggerated/overgeneralized/meanly said etc - and I think these comments are out of line (but I also think that this is just Steve - not ideal in terms of compromise, consideration and civility).

He has zero credibility in my eyes as far as the issues outside the archeological-historical realm are concerned. And it is not something that I enjoy claiming. Months ago he complained that AGBU has not financed his proposed project to make a documentary on Ani. I know that in such issues the channel through which such proposals are routed, as well as the format of the proposal is concerned may make all the difference in the world. I pledged him support in routing it through the right channel – he didn’t even reply – he needs more the issue than its solution.
He brought to our attention (or was it Thorny?) that explosions are taking place near Ani. It was the first time I, and I am sure many of us, learned about it. This was something ideal for him to open his quintessential racist and bigoted mouth, as much as he alleges racism from Armenians. Just read his postings here and there. I am just eagor to see him finally bring up the qualities of his “blue blood.” Rather than to hyperventilate in the Hye Forum, I proposed to appeal to the President of Armenia with a request to stop the explosions, and promised to bring together a text of an appeal, which I did, and I posted it in the Private forum until the facts of the continuing explosions were checked. AT that time, we cam across with press releases from the Ministery of Foreign Affairs of Armenia that the explosions were going to be stopped by May 31, 2001. So, I considered it was late and pointless for us to step in. Nevertheless, I asked my friends in Yerevan to check if the explosions have stopped or not. But he brought evidence that the explosions were continuing beyond the promised date. Therefore, I appealed to the Armenian Embassy in the US and to the Ministry of Foreign affairs requesting clarifications – one of the privileges being a moderator with the Hye Forum – I figured I qualify as a member of Press. Despite the delays, both institutions gave me, in my view, very satisfactory and professional answers within the limits of their procedural protocols. You know Belthecat’s reaction. He just likes to go around wining and throwing irresponsible declarations. Such a safe thing to do anonymously, and especially over the Internet. He doesn’t try to do something to reverse the problem, and we have a lot of them. He could’ve appealed to UNESCO, could’ve appealed to the Academy of Sciences of Armenia, to the President, to AIM, Armenian and other newspapers around the world, etc. But instead, he prefers having the problem, then going full mouth about it. Imagine the annals of archeology writing about the third great man (after Marr and Gurdjiev) visiting Ani, and sole handedly saving it from the Armenian and Turkish savages. People like him thrive on the negative. If there is no negative, they lose their agenda. I can continue, but I think you get the picture.

[THOTH]

MJ - keep up the good work

[MJ]

Nooo.. I am tired of it...

Gotto run. Have a meeting 30 miles away.

[bellthecat]

Edward - you have really got hold of the wrong end of the stick here. I was condemming the new Yerevan cathedral, NOT the Ani cathedral. Also - the Ani cathedral is NOT a simple structure, it is FAR SUPERIOR to a derivitive and formulaic building like Notre Dame, and there is no Islamic influence in its design. And as for its importance to Armenians, that's just all talk and no action - if it really is that important then why the quarry only 600m from its walls - do you think the Jews would stand for something like that next to their wailing wall.

MJ - there is nothing I can usefully say to a creep like you.

Steve

[MJ]

Whether I am the creep here or you I would let it to the others to judge - all your postings are unedited, as well as mine.

[elovna]

See, this is what I mean. I don't care who is right or wrong on the subject, but this is just not the way to talk to each other. It's very childish and provocative. This way you are not going to get anywhere!

[bellthecat]

Aghtchik - don't worry, this is my last posting on this thread, since it is, as you say, going nowhere (a bit like Ani's future prospects).



When have I posted anything outside those two subjects? (Apart from some things about MJs sacred cow of Manifest Destiny America). MJ, on the otherhand, seems to think he can pontificate on anything.

quote

And it is not something that I enjoy claiming.  Months ago he complained that AGBU has not financed his proposed project to make a documentary on Ani.  I know that in such issues the channel through which such proposals are routed, as well as the format of the proposal is concerned may make all the difference in the world.  I pledged him support in routing it through the right channel – he didn’t even reply – he needs more the issue than its solution.

If he cared to look, he will see that I said I was no longer interesting in pursuing that documentary project.

quote

He brought to our attention (or was it Thorny?) that explosions are taking place near Ani.

And look how much MJ resents that!

quote

It was the first time I, and I am sure many of us, learned about it.

He seems to takes delight in his ignorance.

quote

This was something ideal for him to open his quintessential racist and bigoted mouth, as much as he alleges racism from Armenians. Just read his postings here and there.

More of MJs racism and bigotry.

quote

I am just eagor to see him finally bring up the qualities of his “blue blood.”

And even more of it!

quote

Rather than to hyperventilate in the Hye Forum, I proposed to appeal to the President of Armenia with a request to stop the explosions, and promised to bring together a text of an appeal, which I did, and I posted it in the Private forum until the facts of the continuing explosions were checked.  AT that time, we cam across with press releases from the Ministery of Foreign Affairs of Armenia that the explosions were going to be stopped by May 31, 2001.

This "press release" (i.e. lie) was in circulation a few days after the May article in Hurriyet.

quote

So, I considered it was late and pointless for us to step in.  Nevertheless, I asked my friends in Yerevan to check if the explosions have stopped or not.  But he brought evidence that the explosions were continuing beyond the promised date.    Therefore, I appealed to the Armenian Embassy in the US and to the Ministry of Foreign affairs requesting clarifications – one of the privileges being a moderator with the Hye Forum – I figured I qualify as a member of Press.  Despite the delays, both institutions gave me, in my view, very satisfactory and professional answers within the limits of their procedural protocols.

He is getting above himself here - a true "member of the press" would question everything.

quote

You know Belthecat’s reaction.  He just likes to go around wining and throwing irresponsible declarations.  Such a safe thing to do anonymously, and especially over the Internet.

MJ should know that attacking someone for their choice or necessity to be anonymous is just about the most pathetic thing anyone can do. (Thorny, having suffered for similar attacks from similar creeps, you know what I mean here). It is the last resort of idiots everywhere - he will be atacking my spelling next! And, unlike MJ, I have put my name at the bottom of everything I have written.

quote

He doesn’t try to do something to reverse the problem, and we have a lot of them.  He could’ve appealed to UNESCO, could’ve appealed to the Academy of Sciences of Armenia, to the President, to AIM, Armenian and other newspapers around the world, etc.

UNESCO is an inter-governmental organisation - it only deals with governments (even someone with a minimal understanding of international affairs should know that). But MJ doesn't seem to realise that it is not MY sole responsibility to save Armenian architecture from Armenians or from Turks - it is your culture - you save it! And, I had previously mentioned that my report last August about Ani to an (Armenian) archaeological organization was censored by them when republished - mention of the quarry was removed, but the part on the Turkish so-called restorations was kept.

quote

But instead, he prefers having the problem, then going full mouth about it.  Imagine the annals of archeology writing about the third great man (after Marr and Gurdjiev) visiting Ani, and sole handedly saving it from the Armenian and Turkish savages.  People like him thrive on the negative.  If there is no negative, they lose their agenda.   I can continue, but I think you get the picture.

As is usual, the creep has to end everything he posts with a section containing nothing but personal insults.

Steve

[MJ]

I will give you the chance of having your last word in the thread as you have indicated.

Just deal with that thing on your shoulders. Maybe than you would see the world very differently, and more importantly your place in that world.

[edward demian]

Dear bellthecat.
I owe you an appology. I thought you were talking about the Ani cathedral. I deserve whatever you want to throw my way.
As far as the new cathedral architecture is concerned, I have never seen anything of it and like most mothern architectural marvels, I expect very little. But I'm a renaissance man at heart so I live in the wrong epoch.
However, to the Armenians, this is the first monumental piece of work since we have been totally free of foreign domination. It's a form of national sacrifice (madagh)to God, thanking him and proclaiming to the world: Look at us, we are here and we are staying.
After 1200 years of humiliation by Arabs and Turkish dominations, we are and will continue to be sensitive to our present neighbors.

[bellthecat]

You won't be disapointed then! It looks like something a kid would make out of lego bricks. There was a page of pictures on its building progress on armeniandiaspora.com - but the page seems to have vanished.

[ThornyRose]

MJ, a little clarification needed here... What is this thing with being anonymous?
And, no, it wasn't me who brought up the issue with the explosions or anything like that... It was Steve...

[ThornyRose]

Posting once to call attention back to the topic... Hello?

[MJ]

Thorny,

Everybody here, except Garo, MosJan, Ara Baliozian and a couple of others, is more or less anonymous – including me – for the most of the readers. Therefore, obviously, I wouldn’t try to imply that there is something wrong with being anonymous in the Hye Forum. It is part of the procedure, here. But if one reads carefully what I have said, and not how others have twisted what I have allegedly said (by the way, this fact itself is very telling), he/she would discover that my resentment has been directed at certain behavior while being anonymous, and not at being anonymous. For example, when would say anonymously in the Hye Forum, “I’ll kick your butt,” it would be a cowardly behavior. I am sure you would agree with it. Additionally, the alleged anonymity of many here is a very superficial illusion for the faint-hearted. The correct question to purse (if needed) would be anonymous to whom? Pretty much the parties from whom the anonymity is being maintained have enough information to trace you, me and the Cat, for example. Additionally, if you would go back and read the materials of this tread, you would find out that the anonymity is not something that I have brought to the discussion of this thread.

"He just likes to go around wining and throwing irresponsible declarations. Such a safe thing to do anonymously, and especially over the Internet." – MJ

[ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

[ThornyRose]

I know, but I also remember you saying something about Steve being THE anonymous when he asked about your sources, or at least their credentials, if not their names...
Did you mean the same thing here?



No matter... I've lost interest...
So, what happens now?

[MJ]

Yes, in reply to his allegation of my "sources" being anonymous. I found that raising the issue of anonimity here, while he and his sources were anonimous, too, was at least ridiculous.

quote

No matter... I've lost interest...

Me too.

quote

So, what happens now?

Now, life moves on...

[bellthecat]

MJs progressive blindness is becoming total!

"He just likes to go around wining and throwing irresponsible declarations. Such a safe thing to do anonymously, and especially over the Internet." – MJ

"Meanwhile, the biggest anonymous here is you throughout the existence of this forum." - MJ

[MJ]

For the sake of the record:

posted August 12, 2001 06:15 PM

You have proved to me one thing with your typical racist Armenian attitudes. I would sooner rely on a Turkish source than an anonymous Armenian one - at least they will have a cernal of truth hidden somewhere. –The Cat

posted August 12, 2001 07:43 PM

My friend may be anonymous to you, but not to me. Meanwhile, the biggest anonymous here is you throughout the existence of this forum. Meanwhile, the biggest anonymous here is you throughout the existence of this forum. - MJ