Edited by HyeFedayis, 13 November 2007 - 09:05 PM.
Armenian Genocide Related Scanned Documents (Unique Topic)
#21
Posted 13 November 2007 - 09:05 PM
#22
Posted 13 November 2007 - 11:35 PM
Too bad I can't read French
Do you know anything about French population count of Armenians in Anatolia at 1914?
Here take a look
Graph
Thanks.Looks like revisionist like this one.
Bonjour,
Pouvez-vous me donner les sources du lien : Graph
merci
----------------
can you give me the source of link Graph
tanks .
#24
Posted 14 November 2007 - 12:50 AM
Pouvez-vous me donner les sources du lien : Graph
merci
----------------
can you give me the source of link Graph
tanks .
Unfortunately I don't have it either.This fanatic Turk from Turkish forum posted this graph and claimed based on that Armenians were mere 350k before AG! Absurd right? At 1st I just dismissed it as another bogus crap (It is still crap) but upon closer look I added all the numbers and got over 1 million Armenians!Now this jackass claimed 350k! So I just used his bogus material against him.
I would like to know where this graph comes from myself.
#25
Posted 14 November 2007 - 12:53 AM
When I told you that the Armenian population was probably about 2 million, it was based on various figures, McCarthy claims about 1.7 or the entire Ottoman Empire, Toynbee, about 1.8 million for Anatolia. (which makes over 2 million for the Empire).
I'll post the 1913 figures for each regions and compare them with McCarrthy if I have time.
Also another interesting point, as I mentioned when the Ottoman statistic bureau became more centralised and improved the counting of Muslim population, is some region the Muslim population doubled as a result while the Armenian population didn't much modify. When replacing with 1913 statistic and compare, we realise a jump of population back the the expcted value which is observed with the Muslims (and even lower, which suggest they are not exaggerated figures).
Thanks for the Post. It is interesting that even McCarthy dares not go extreme here...1.7 seems pretty generous coming from a revisionist.
Love you man
#26
Posted 14 November 2007 - 04:04 PM
The Merge represent choosing the highest between the two. The reason is that the 1913 figures when comparing we observe are not overcounting, the population differences for the less administrative control is the highest.
Note the capital, where the Ottoman had the most administrative control, the differences is of 0,94%.
We arrive at 1966400 for the population.
1913 1912 McC % Merge
Europe
Istanbul 163670 162134 -0,94 163670
Edirne 30316 33650 11 33650
Selarik / 87 / 87
Cecair / 140 / 140
Total 193986 196011 197547
Western Anatolia
Hudavendigar 118992 97616 -17,96 118992
Izmit 61675 69225 12,24 69225
Aydin 21145 25030 18,37 25050
Biga / 2805 2805
Total 201812 194676 216072
Northern Anatolia
Kastamonu 13461 13702 1,79 13702
Trabzon 73395 63326 -13,72 73395
Total 86856 77028 87097
Central Anatolia
Sivas 204472 182912 -10,54 204472
Ankara 135869 125616 -7,55 135869
Konya 20738 24856 19,86 24856
Total 361079 333384 365197
Southern Anatolia
Adana 119414 74930 -37,25 119414
Haleb 189565 123129 -35,05 189565
Total 308979 198059 308979
Eastern Anatolia
Bitlis 218404 191156 -12,48 218404
Mamuretulaziz 124289 111043 -10,66 124289
Diyarbakir 106867 89131 -16,6 106867
Van 110897 130500 17,68 130500
Erzurum 202391 163216 -19,36 202391
Total 762848 685046 782451
Syria
Suriye / 1768 1768
Beyrut / 4010 4010
Cebelilubnan / 6 6
Kudsiserif / 2340 2340
Zor / 283 283
Total 8407 8407
Iraq
Mosul / 100 100
Baghdad / 500 500
Dasra / 50 50
Total 650 650
Total 1915560 1693261 1966400
#27
Posted 14 November 2007 - 04:07 PM
I would like to know where this graph comes from myself.
Armat, the map has some problems compared to the official Ottoman figures. I'll check that.
#28
Posted 16 November 2007 - 01:43 AM
The Merge represent choosing the highest between the two. The reason is that the 1913 figures when comparing we observe are not overcounting, the population differences for the less administrative control is the highest.
Note the capital, where the Ottoman had the most administrative control, the differences is of 0,94%.
We arrive at 1966400 for the population.
1913 1912 McC % Merge
Europe
Istanbul 163670 162134 -0,94 163670
Edirne 30316 33650 11 33650
Selarik / 87 / 87
Cecair / 140 / 140
Total 193986 196011 197547
Western Anatolia
Hudavendigar 118992 97616 -17,96 118992
Izmit 61675 69225 12,24 69225
Aydin 21145 25030 18,37 25050
Biga / 2805 2805
Total 201812 194676 216072
Northern Anatolia
Kastamonu 13461 13702 1,79 13702
Trabzon 73395 63326 -13,72 73395
Total 86856 77028 87097
Central Anatolia
Sivas 204472 182912 -10,54 204472
Ankara 135869 125616 -7,55 135869
Konya 20738 24856 19,86 24856
Total 361079 333384 365197
Southern Anatolia
Adana 119414 74930 -37,25 119414
Haleb 189565 123129 -35,05 189565
Total 308979 198059 308979
Eastern Anatolia
Bitlis 218404 191156 -12,48 218404
Mamuretulaziz 124289 111043 -10,66 124289
Diyarbakir 106867 89131 -16,6 106867
Van 110897 130500 17,68 130500
Erzurum 202391 163216 -19,36 202391
Total 762848 685046 782451
Syria
Suriye / 1768 1768
Beyrut / 4010 4010
Cebelilubnan / 6 6
Kudsiserif / 2340 2340
Zor / 283 283
Total 8407 8407
Iraq
Mosul / 100 100
Baghdad / 500 500
Dasra / 50 50
Total 650 650
Total 1915560 1693261 1966400
Have-you a link for this statistic ?
#29
Posted 16 November 2007 - 01:57 PM
Everything have no links. The 1912 figures are taken from Muslim and minorities and maps draw by McCarthy, the other are Patriarchate official figures, they are not those released by Marcel Léart or those used for propaganda purpouses, they were for internal consuption. They were official published by Raymond H. Kevorkian and Paul B. Paboudjian in Les Arméniens dans l'Empire Ottoman à la vielle du génocide, Ed. ARHIS, Paris, 1992
You can find it here p.82 from McCarthy chapter in a Turkish government publication. Don't buy what McCarthy is saying on p.81, he is making baseless assumptions to discredit the statistic but admit them to be superior to the other Patriarchate figures. Those were drown according to the parishes informations, birth, death certificates and the other records available.
#30
Posted 16 November 2007 - 02:09 PM
#31
Posted 16 November 2007 - 06:22 PM
I've checked this statistic, it is off mark in many cases, I just agree with one, 130,500 is obviously an underestimation of the Armenians of Van, not as much as the 1913 statistics though.
If we take the merge figures I have provided and add a 1,2% increase of population for the period of one year to find 1914 (note that it is not an exaggeration given that McCarthy figures represent 1912), we find 1,989,997. So there was approximativally 2 million Armenians to be moderate, but probably more.
#32
Posted 17 November 2007 - 01:17 AM
http://www.armenews....d_article=36114
Le grand illustre 25 septembre 1904
http://www.armenews....d_article=35971
Metro 11 juillet 2007 : Cet été , retour aux sources en Arménie
http://www.armenews....d_article=35972
Emile Doumergue : L’Arménie, les massacres et la Question d’Orient 1916
http://www.armenews....d_article=36064
#33
Posted 21 November 2007 - 10:51 PM
Version originale française
http://www.armenews....d_article=36178
Version Texte :
http://www.imprescri...ents/morgenthau
version Anglaise :
http://www.homepage-...orgenthau1.html
En Turc :
http://www.homepage-...sh/turkish.html
#34
Posted 22 November 2007 - 12:47 AM
Edited by Domino, 22 November 2007 - 08:40 PM.
#35
Posted 22 November 2007 - 11:24 PM
http://www.armenews....d_article=36176
#36
Posted 02 December 2007 - 02:54 AM
http://www.armenews....d_article=36251
#38
Posted 04 December 2007 - 03:09 PM
"it´s absolut nonsense to take in consideration the statistic of the armenian population just before 1915"
I thought in the beginning that it was too excessive, but afterwards, by taking into consideration "some" of the facts:
- between 1894 and 1894 it is estimated that the number of armenians decrease with nearly 500 000 persons [300 000 were killed, 50 000 orphans, 100 000 refugees in the Transcaucasians]
- massacres in Adana 1909 : 30 000 victims
- the census doesn´t take into account the fact that the armenians wasn´t willing to "register" all their family members
- ....
The Genocide didn´t begin in 1915, and before 1915 the armenian population went throught too many exactions (removals, massacres, change of religion...)
Edited by NoComment, 04 December 2007 - 03:11 PM.
#39
Posted 04 December 2007 - 10:43 PM
first of all introduce your self
second, what do you mean by..
"it´s absolut nonsense to take in consideration the statistic of the armenian population just before 1915"
and
- between 1894 and 1894?
#40
Posted 05 December 2007 - 12:40 AM
- read between 1894 and 1896
introduce myself?
an armenian born in France, living in Sweden
Kharpetsi and Dikranagertsi
"it´s absolut nonsense to take in consideration the statistic of the armenian population just before 1915":
I didnt mean something, it was a quote (between 2 "")
this quote means that taking in consideration the statistic of the armenian population just before 1915 (1914 for example) without taking consideration of some major facts (developp in 3 points in my first topic) minimise the reality ...
Edited by NoComment, 05 December 2007 - 12:42 AM.
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