Posted 15 June 2004 - 08:56 AM
Oh and a nice little bit to consider...
Posted 16 June 2004 - 12:31 PM
- William C. Easttom II
I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not self denial. Love is not blood and suffering. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being.
- Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist
According to Christianity eternal suffering awaits anyone who questions God’s infinite love. That’s the message we’re brought up with, believe or die. “Thank you, forgiving Lord, for all those options.”
- Bill Hicks, Rant in E-minor, CD
As a tot I was given the usual terrifying mixed message: a) God is love; and If you don’t believe how much he loves you, you will stand in the corner for eternity.
- James Lileks, “God Has Call Waiting,” Notes of a Nervous Man
When all has been considered, it seems to me to be the irresistible intuition that infinite punishment for finite sin would be unjust, and therefore wrong. We feel that even weak and erring Man would shrink from such an act. And we cannot conceive of God as acting on a lower standard of right and wrong.
- Lewis Carroll (author of Alice in Wonderland), “Eternal Punishment,” Diversions and Digressions of Lewis Carroll
They say that when god was in Jerusalem he forgave his murderers, but now he will not forgive an honest man for differing with him on the subject of the Trinity.
They say that God says to me, “Forgive your enemies.” I say, “I do;” but he says, “I will damn mine.” God should be consistent. If he wants me to forgive my enemies he should forgive his. I am asked to forgive enemies who can hurt me. God is only asked to forgive enemies who cannot hurt him. He certainly ought to be as generous as he asks us to be.
- Robert Ingersoll
An idea, which has terrified millions, claims that some of us will go to a place called Hell, where we will suffer eternal torture. This does not scare me because, when I try to imagine a Mind behind this universe, I cannot conceive that Mind, usually called “God,” as totally mad. I mean, guys, compare that “God” with the worst monsters you can think of -- Adolph Hitler, Joe Stalin, that sort of guy. None of them ever inflicted more than finite pain on their victims. Even de Sade, in his sado-masochistic fantasy novels, never devised an unlimited torture. The idea that the Mind of Creation (if such exists) wants to torture some of its critters for endless infinities of infinities seems too absurd to take seriously. Such a deranged Mind could not create a mud hut, much less the exquisitely mathematical universe around us.
If such a monster-God did exist, the sane attitude would consist of practicing the Buddhist virtue of compassion. Don’t give way to hatred: try to understand and forgive him. Maybe He will recover his wits some day.
- Robert Anton Wilson, “Cheerful Reflections on Death and Dying,” Gnoware, February 1999
There are in fact so many strong Biblical, doctrinal, and logical arguments against the existence of a literal hell that this question naturally arises:
Why do the churches teach it and why do people often believe it?...The churches tend to believe that fear, rather than love conquers all.
- Robert Short, Methodist clergyman, U.S. Catholic, April 1980
Posted 17 June 2004 - 11:55 AM
Posted 17 June 2004 - 12:05 PM
Posted 17 June 2004 - 07:23 PM
yes Winston - you have converted us all - no more sleepless nights for you.
Posted 17 June 2004 - 07:26 PM
Posted 17 June 2004 - 07:40 PM
Posted 17 June 2004 - 08:14 PM
My point being that, since i do believe in god and that he is powerful and benevolent- (hopefully ) then i wish not to blieve in hell...or Dante and Lucifer himselves...
I also kniow that my beliefs stir up controversy and can be argued with the fact that if God is so powerful and good, then why aren' we iving in a world that is "heaven on earth" ?... well for the answer to that my friends I think we have to dig deeper to find it....I have an explanation for it... but its way too long to sit here and write-- if youre interested, PM me and I can tell you.... yea but that way you'd have to read more of my "uneducated misspellings" as some people put it--- oh right think they mean typos.... anywhoo... that's a me!!... take it or leave it
Posted 18 June 2004 - 07:59 AM
Oh and SIp - of course - by definition whoever voted the "I don't vote in polls" is a liar....
Posted 18 June 2004 - 12:24 PM
For your information, I haven't voted on your well thought out poll. That was just a joke, so please continue with your quest for humanity. As everyone here looks up to the god of wisdom.
Posted 18 June 2004 - 03:01 PM
Posted 18 June 2004 - 03:17 PM
Seaphan, the only reason the god of wisdom made that accusation was because he thought I was the one who made that vote. About you agreeing with him???? Hummmm, that's not something I would be proud of.
Posted 18 June 2004 - 03:19 PM
I just want to say I agree with who ever voted "I don’t vote IN polls" person.
It’s a totally wrong description and it should of red "I don’t vote in polling stations" or simply "I don’t vote" but yet he/she voted after all
think about it, its a paradox, so the question is. is this person a lier?
Posted 18 June 2004 - 03:23 PM
Well, you walked right into it with your "joke"
Whatever he is "accusing you" that's not my problem. I am agreeing with him that whoever voted that last choice up there is lying. That's all.
Posted 18 June 2004 - 03:30 PM
so one is right when said "I dont vote in polls" it does not have any meaning
he/she is not lying
Posted 18 June 2004 - 07:55 PM
And regarding the statement I made concerning that whoever voted "I never vote in polls" is a liar - I still stand by what I said - "liar!"
Posted 19 June 2004 - 12:36 AM
Posted 19 June 2004 - 12:39 AM
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