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Following Gods Commandments...


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#141 THOTH

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 03:13 PM

Another good one...

http://www.amazon.co...=glance&s=books

#142 THOTH

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 10:16 PM

More of interest to unbelieers and those who question...etc

http://www.deism.com/biblevotes.htm

http://www.deism.com/monsters.htm

http://www.deism.com/paine_essay02.htm

etc

#143 THOTH

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 10:45 PM

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."

From:
The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)

#144 THOTH

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 11:02 PM

Thomas Jefferson:

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.


Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

#145 THOTH

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 11:14 PM

Oh yes - the absurdaty of it all...

http://www.telegraph...19/ixworld.html

#146 DominO

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 08:14 PM

QUOTE (Sasun @ Jun 14 2004, 09:42 AM)
Domino, how can science have anything that is not rational? So what quantum mechanics is counter-intiuitive? It is still rational.



Domino, why do you always think that religion is supposed to explain things? That's not what religion is about. Religion is only a step in spiritual development. It cannot explain the universe and generally does not try. For more advanced development there is yoga which can and does explain everything metaphysical that science and religion can never explain. Religion is like a kindergarten level of education.



You will have to provide a lot of evidence for this smile.gif

Sasun, reread what I wrote, when I reffered to irrational I was reffering to nature not science. As for Quantum mechanic, I was talking about the observation, not what we make of it.

Sasun, how can you tell that religion is not supposed to explain things?

#147 Sasun

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 08:43 PM

QUOTE (Domino @ Jun 26 2004, 10:14 PM)
Sasun, reread what I wrote, when I reffered to irrational I was reffering to nature not science. As for Quantum mechanic, I was talking about the observation, not what we make of it.

Domino, don't be surprised that I misunderstood you biggrin.gif So you are saying nature is irrational? What does that mean? I mean, nature is largely unconscious, what is the point of calling it irrational?

QUOTE
Sasun, how can you tell that religion is not supposed to explain things?


Science does have to explain nature and natural phenomena as far as it can, but religion is not like science. It is trying to deal/get in touch with what is beyond nature and the physical world.

BTW, there are things in religion that are predictable and repetitive. This is particularly true in yoga which is the completely cleaned out and advanced level of religion. Yoga is often called science for that reason, because many things are explained and systematized, and everything is predictable and repeatable - 1) predictability: if a person practices the same yoga, certain things are bound to happen without fail, 2)repetitive: things that will happen are generally the same for each and every practicing individual (there are always variations in time and experiences from one person to another).
In elementary religion too there is predictability and repeatability - if one is good he/she will go to a good place, if one is evil he/she will go to a bad place. This is predictability for you, and the repeatability is that this principle is true for every individual, there are no exceptions. It is another question if you believe or not, but this is what some of the major religions have. There are other similar things....

#148 Nakharar

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 10:25 AM

QUOTE
For more advanced development there is yoga which can and does explain everything metaphysical that science and religion can never explain.


You wrote an explanation regarding this, but could you please elaborate what you meant with this? This is not only very intriguing, but are you on to something that the rest of us mortals have failed to understand, not to mention countless philosophers who have been grappling with these issues since time immemorial.

How can something metaphysical be explained and systematized? Don't take my remarks as sarcasm, which I can assure they are not, but you seem to put a lot of "faith" on yoga if you purport it to be an advanced form of religion, if not science.

#149 DominO

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 04:36 PM

QUOTE (Sasun @ Jun 26 2004, 08:43 PM)
Domino, don't be surprised that I misunderstood you biggrin.gif So you are saying nature is irrational? What does that mean? I mean, nature is largely unconscious, what is the point of calling it irrational?



Science does have to explain nature and natural phenomena as far as it can, but religion is not like science. It is trying to deal/get in touch with what is beyond nature and the physical world.

BTW, there are things in religion that are predictable and repetitive. This is particularly true in yoga which is the completely cleaned out and advanced level of religion. Yoga is often called science for that reason, because many things are explained and systematized, and everything is predictable and repeatable - 1) predictability: if a person practices the same yoga, certain things are bound to happen without fail, 2)repetitive: things that will happen are generally the same for each and every practicing individual (there are always variations in time and experiences from one person to another).
In elementary religion too there is predictability and repeatability - if one is good he/she will go to a good place, if one is evil he/she will go to a bad place. This is predictability for you, and the repeatability is that this principle is true for every individual, there are no exceptions. It is another question if you believe or not, but this is what some of the major religions have. There are other similar things....

Actually Sasun, this time my post was clear enough to be understood. I am not saying that nature is necessarly irrational. Rational vs irrational is only differenciated in the presence of a conscious being.

Chaos is not rational, there is still in math the study of chaos.

As for the rest of your post Sasun, it is rather based on personal opinion than facts. You can make religion look like you want...

Edited by Fadix, 27 June 2004 - 04:39 PM.


#150 Sasun

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 05:56 PM

QUOTE (Domino @ Jun 27 2004, 06:36 PM)
As for the rest of your post Sasun, it is rather based on personal opinion than facts. You can make religion look like you want...

Well, it maybe a personal opinion that what religion is saying is not true. But what I am saying, religion as it is provides both predictability and repeatability. My opinion and opinions of many others is that religion is true, and your opinion is that it is not true. But that's not the point. As for facts, there are facts, you just don't know them... wink.gif
As for yoga, this is something more verifiable... Domino, you practice meditation. I don't know why exactly you practice but surely you have some purpose and expect/predict that it will happen if you continue practicing. I am guessing your purpose is to gain knowledge. If that's the case, every meditation expert will say that you are doing the right thing. Yoga is more serious, simple meditation that most people practice is just a very light version of (internal) yoga.

Nakharar, I will address your post a little later.

#151 Sasun

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 07:48 PM

QUOTE (Nakharar @ Jun 27 2004, 12:25 PM)
You wrote an explanation regarding this, but could you please elaborate what you meant with this? This is not only very intriguing, but are you on to something that the rest of us mortals have failed to understand, not to mention countless philosophers who have been grappling with these issues since time immemorial.

How can something metaphysical be explained and systematized? Don't take my remarks as sarcasm, which I can assure they are not, but you seem to put a lot of "faith" on yoga if you purport it to be an advanced form of religion, if not science.

By practicing yoga one develops the capacity of direct perception of the truths in and around us. The ordinary way of learning is through using senses. Philosophers do not go behind sense perception, thinking and reasoning, and commonly known religion is just initial steps in going beyond reason. That is how yoga is different from those two. (Note that I am not talking about Hatha Yoga which is a practice for the body aimed only at health and long life. I am talking about internal yoga).
Yoga is a very large subject and I could not possibly explain. More importantly, a yogi is best positioned to explain yoga. Here is something about one branch of yoga, namely Raja Yoga written by Swami Vivekananda, an accomplished yogi. He was an educated person and a contemporary, it is easy to understand his mindset because he has written to western taste and ways of thinking. I don't know anyone else who has explained yoga to the intellectually oriented better than Vivekananda. If you read all these sections in the links I think you will see what I mean.
Oh, and by systematized I meant that yoga as a discipline is systematized.

Here is another book on yoga which I plan to read, I have heard very good things about it and the author


#152 DominO

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 09:57 PM

QUOTE (Sasun @ Jun 27 2004, 05:56 PM)
Well, it maybe a personal opinion that what religion is saying is not true. But what I am saying, religion as it is provides both predictability and repeatability. My opinion and opinions of many others is that religion is true, and your opinion is that it is not true. But that's not the point. As for facts, there are facts, you just don't know them... wink.gif
As for yoga, this is something more verifiable... Domino, you practice meditation. I don't know why exactly you practice but surely you have some purpose and expect/predict that it will happen if you continue practicing. I am guessing your purpose is to gain knowledge. If that's the case, every meditation expert will say that you are doing the right thing. Yoga is more serious, simple meditation that most people practice is just a very light version of (internal) yoga.

Nakharar, I will address your post a little later.

Er? predictability and repeatability? How?

As for me saying religion is not true. I never did such, for me it is irrelevent to ask if religion is true or not.

#153 Sasun

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 10:23 PM

QUOTE (Domino @ Jun 27 2004, 11:57 PM)
Er? predictability and repeatability? How?

I just said above... hmm... are you trying to confuse me Domino? biggrin.gif Just to be on the same page, please explain what do you mean by predictability and repeatability. Particularly, when you say religion does not have those, what do you mean?

QUOTE
As for me saying religion is not true. I never did such, for me it is irrelevent to ask if religion is true or not.

OK, I am confused again. What did you mean by saying "As for the rest of your post Sasun, it is rather based on personal opinion than facts. You can make religion look like you want... "?
I am assuming like everyone you must know the basic things about religions. Or do you think each person has an individual religion based on his/her opinion?

Edited by Sasun, 27 June 2004 - 10:24 PM.


#154 DominO

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 12:55 PM

QUOTE (Sasun @ Jun 27 2004, 10:23 PM)
I just said above... hmm... are you trying to confuse me Domino? biggrin.gif Just to be on the same page, please explain what do you mean by predictability and repeatability. Particularly, when you say religion does not have those, what do you mean?


OK, I am confused again. What did you mean by saying "As for the rest of your post Sasun, it is rather based on personal opinion than facts. You can make religion look like you want... "?
I am assuming like everyone you must know the basic things about religions. Or do you think each person has an individual religion based on his/her opinion?

Predicability is when you can predict something, and repeatability is when you can rpeat an experiment or the same observation can happen again after being predicted etc... Religion can not.

. As for your second paragraph. No, not everyone has a different religion, agnostics don't, as well as Fadixists. biggrin.gif

#155 Sasun

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 01:33 PM

QUOTE (Domino @ Jun 29 2004, 02:55 PM)
Predicability is when you can predict something

Religion predicts that if you practice religion you will be saved (I won't elaborate).

QUOTE
and repeatability is when you can repeat an experiment or the same
observation can happen again after being predicted etc...


If the practice of religion is your experiment, then everyone can do this experiment on himself/herself and achieve the same results as everyone else (I won't elaborate). Thus the experiment can be repeated.

QUOTE
Religion can not.


Religion can biggrin.gif tongue.gif

#156 DominO

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 02:05 PM

Oh, come on Sasun, PP_LEASE. biggrin.gif

#157 Sasun

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 02:35 PM

QUOTE (Domino @ Jun 29 2004, 04:05 PM)
Oh, come on Sasun, PP_LEASE.  biggrin.gif

What is this Domino??? smile.gif You demand valid arguements but you are not offering any here.

Like I said, you don't believe it, but that's what religion says, and it is true. This is not an empty claim, it is based on factual premises, the only thing is that you may not be able to see the facts because you have no access to them unless certain conditions are in place (hence your sarcastic utterance which only indicates that you don't really know much on the subject tongue.gif ). You can only know if you do the "experiment" wink.gif
Likewise, you can read a book on electromagnetism and believe what it says, or you can do all the necessary experiments and make logical conclusions yourself, then believe that the theories of electromagnetism are true.

Edited by Sasun, 29 June 2004 - 02:38 PM.


#158 gevo27

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    Its one of the most beautiful sights... now i have to go see it.

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 05:10 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Jun 8 2004, 04:10 PM)
The Sermon on the Mount has been taken totally out of context. Just as the "turning of the other cheek".

Jesus was one of the first revolutionaries, I will spare the reasons and details. He was a revolutionary in the same sense as Gandhi and M.L. King who advocated non-violent and peaceful confrontation, and as one can see they were all successful as they had recognized that violence only begets more violence.

Jesus' "blessed are the peacemakers" was in fact a muffled and subdued invitation to revolution, escept that he advocated "peaceful" methods, such as civil diobedience, sit-ins and the like.

And we, as stupid as we are gobbled it all, lox, stox and bagel** and lay down our weapons to be massacred day after day.

When are we going to learn to read the TEXT as it was intended?

** A play on "lock, stock and barrel". In case we need to know it refers to the lock, stock and barrel of a musket/rifle.

Sit ins?? You dont know what the hell your talking about... and beware of what lies above as you joke and mock this matter, which you do not even understand.. the least you can do is use quotes from the Bible like THOT...

#159 gevo27

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    Its one of the most beautiful sights... now i have to go see it.

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 05:21 PM

I dont know how much any of you know about the Bible, but if you know anything and are ready to criticise and mock whatis written in the devine literate pages of the Bible.. then you better be ready to answer for it.. and know what you are saying.. none of anything of what is the original post of this thread makes any sense, it is childish mockery, and if anyone knew what the book of leviticus was written for then you would feel like complete idiots, fools, morons,, ignorant people.. for making fun of it.. your mockery makes no sense, and holds no ground, all you are doing is making childish jokes from devine literature.. i hope you are ready for the consenquences... and if this post offends you, then so be it.. you talked without knowing what you are talking about...

and people ike THOT who claim to have read the Bible especially sound like idiots and full of ignorence, because it is obviouse from what you are saying and what type of verses you are mocking .. that you know nothing..

Edited by gevo27, 29 June 2004 - 05:24 PM.


#160 Sasun

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 06:05 PM

QUOTE (gevo27 @ Jun 29 2004, 07:10 PM)
Sit ins??

That was indeed very funny laugh.gif lol.gif

Gevo jan, chill down, its OK. If anyone has to go to hell or receive a punishment so be it. But let's not cause controversies and war of words, since "blessed are the peacemakers" smile.gif We can choose to create hell in the forum, or a heaven. The rest is God's business as to where we will go when we die wink.gif




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