86 replies to this topic

[ED]

Ծափիկ ծափիկ ծիրանիկ
ունեմ տատիկ ու պապիկ
պապս ցախ է կոտրատում
տատս ճաշ է պատրաստում
իսկ ես նստած ծառի տակ
նկարում եմ
մի անուշիկ
նապաստակ


իհարկէ սա վոտանավոր է, և ոչ թե երք

[Arpa]

Gaghant Baba, Gaghant baba
Sareroun vrayen gou ka
Layn patsek tser trner@
Gaghant baban togh ners ka.

Another one that starts with:
Gaghant baban yeger eh

Kaghand papan yeker e
Dran yetin kayner e
Lur ketseq tghaner
Tesnenq incher berer e.

Mer senyag@ nsder eh???? [Not sure!]

I don't remember the rest!]
Another one that starts with:
Dzapig dzapig dziranig
[I don't remember the rest!]

Dzapik, dzapik dzirani
Karmir khndzor k@ nmani
Voski tel tel mazer@
Hov@ arer k@ tani.

And here is Napastak.

Ay napastak im sirun,
Shut verj tur ays khagherun
Oh, ches tesner du mite?
Vorsord m@ qez k@ dite.

Napastak@ khorotik
Achqern dartsuts polortiq
Ev akanjnern ir barak
Tnkets pakhav shat arag.

[Arpa]

Here is another Kaghand song.
Partially reconstructed.
Remember that sometimes we call him Hayr Barsegh, Father Basil.
Also note St. Nick and nick-nick.

(Papik, mamik u poqrik,
Nstats nerqev pukheriq,
Husan tesnel Hayr nick-nick.)

Ha, ha, ha ov chuzer?
Ha, ha, ha yelnel ver?
Tesnelu Hayr Barsegh nick-nick
Tskhanen var galu gaghtniq.

[Arpa]

Char (insert name)Harutin mek@
Dbrotsen pakhav
Sut khosetsav ir hor
Kerav tsets aghvor,
Oh, kerav tsets aghvor.

Dzerq@d pagnem hayrik
Al mi tsetser zis, al mi tsetser zis
Te vor angm m'al anem hane im hogis,
Oh, hane im hogis.

[nairi]

Nairi, unfortunately Eastern Armenia was in the Soviet.

Okay, then what about Iran?

It seems like we have the same amount of songs, doesn't it? I mean most of what some of you said in Arevelahayeren (Eastern Armenian) I recall having sung in Arevmdahayeren (Western Armenian).

If we do, how come only West Armenians here have been remembering and posting songs? Note that there are more active EAs members here than WAs (I know some will kick me for making this distinction, but since it's there, I can't help mentioning it).

Dzapik, dzapik dzirani
Karmir khndzor k@ nmani
Voski tel tel mazer@
Hov@ arer k@ tani.

I think EA goes something like:

Tsapik, tsapik tsirani
Karmir khndzor nmani (although there's variation here)
Voske gangur mazer@/d
Qamin karni ktani (sounds akward. I'll check with someone later)

It's usually sung while clapping with the child to the beat.

Edited by nairi, 03 February 2005 - 05:38 PM.

[Anoushik]

Okay, then what about Iran?

Good point. I don't know

If we do, how come only West Armenians here have been remembering and posting songs? Note that there are more active EAs members here than WAs (I know some will kick me for making this distinction, but since it's there, I can't help mentioning it).

Could it be that maybe currently they have more access to Western Armenian books with children's songs? Also, in LA there are numerous number of Western Armenian schools and kindergardens as opposed to Eastern Armenian schools and kidergardens.

[Anoushik]

Ծափիկ ծափիկ ծիրանիկ
ունեմ տատիկ ու պապիկ
պապս ցախ է կոտրատում
տատս ճաշ է պատրաստում
իսկ ես նստած ծառի տակ
նկարում եմ
մի անուշիկ
նապաստակ

Wow, you remember!

[Arpa]

Okay, then what about Iran?
If we do, how come only West Armenians here have been remembering and posting songs? Note that there are more active EAs members here than WAs (I know some will kick me for making this distinction, but since it's there, I can't help mentioning it).

Nairi,
This is not the time nor the place for cultural wars
One must remember that when Yerevan was a mere dusty village with maybe one school at Ejmiatsin, the Armenian cultural centers were Tiflis in the east and.... let us see how many.... in the west.
Besides the dozens of schools in Bolis, some as high as college, consider among others, Kharberd College, Tarsus College, Aintab College, Marash College(s) and .... many more.

Is that the reason the easterners can only go as back as Lenin Papa and Stalin Tatik?

Also, perhaps many of the rgymes may be imitations and in some cases translations from European and American (missionary)nursery rhymes.

Edited by Arpa, 03 February 2005 - 06:12 PM.

[Arpa]

Ulik, ulik ay sev ulik,
Yek im qovik sirem qichik,
Yev erb hognink ertanq nersik
Var tanq glkhik @nenq pajik.

(pajik=childish to lie down, sleep, like nennik)

[Arpa]

Just curious.
Did anyone count how many times we used the diminutive/endearing suffix -ik?

[nairi]

Char (insert name)Harutin mek@
Dbrotsen pakhav
Sut khosetsav ir hor
Kerav tsets aghvor,
Oh, kerav tsets aghvor.

Dzerq@d pagnem hayrik
Al mi tsetser zis, al mi tsetser zis
Te vor angm m'al anem hane im  hogis,
Oh, hane im hogis.

This pretty much sums up Armenian childhood.

I was about to say that East Armenians don't have children songs because they care less about their kids, but then I read the above...

Arpa, please don't tell me singing to children is new to Armenians.

[Armen]

Off topic but still...

Doesn't "Kaghand Papi" sound like some evil SOB. Just pronounce it: Kaaaghghghaaand

[Siamanto]

I remember this game, we used to sing this and do the same thing you described...

Tashginage hantsnel goozem yes, goozem yes, goozem yes.
Tashginage hantsnel goozem yes, pari yeghoghi me, tserke dzaloghi me.

Apparently, there exists many variants of this song/game! I remember it as:

Tashginag m@ tskel gouzem yes, gouzem yes, gouzem yes
Tashginag m@ tskel gouzem yes, pari getsoghin, ??????

Another game/song:
Menk g@ khaghank andarin metch yerp vor kayl@ hos tche
Kayl, kayl our es toun?
The wolf responds something different each time. At the end, the wolf comes out to scare the children!

Wasn't this a votanavor instead of a song? (I don't remember the rest either.)

Ծափիկ ծափիկ ծիրանիկ
ունեմ տատիկ ու պապիկ
պապս ցախ է կոտրատում
տատս ճաշ է պատրաստում
իսկ ես նստած ծառի տակ
նկարում եմ
մի անուշիկ
նապաստակ
իհարկէ սա վոտանավոր է, և ոչ թե երք

The way I understand it, a vodanavor is a bit more "serious!!!!"
For some reason, I don't feel - it's subjective, of course - Dzapig dzapig dziranig as "serious!"
Furthermore, there's a kind of a "tune/singing!" and as nairi mentioned: "It's usually sung while clapping with the child to the beat."

If we do, how come only West Armenians here have been remembering and posting songs? Note that there are more active EAs members here than WAs (I know some will kick me for making this distinction, but since it's there, I can't help mentioning it).

Maybe because we are big babies!
Maybe we don't grow up as fast as Eastern Armenians do and our childhood lasts longer!

Edited by Siamanto, 03 February 2005 - 07:26 PM.

[Arpa]

...

Arpa, please don't tell me singing to children is new to Armenians.

Of course not!
My comment about the European (missionary) influence pertained to some which may be translations or imitations.
As far as "Armenians singing to their children", it is as old as time itself.
We remember when Yeva, you know she was Armenian had her baby in the Yedemi Partez (partez=paradise) she sang to him "qun yeghir balas, acherd khup ara".
Seriously though it is told about Aram K that his music was heavily based on the songs his mother Ghumash sang to him as a baby. She apparently was a good singer and a very musical lady.

[Siamanto]

Nairi,
This is not the time nor the place for cultural wars

Recognizing differences does not mean opposing - as in a confrontation - the two! There exist differences for historical reasons that go beyond the Genocide.
The denial of differences in the name of "political correctness" is a form of "a-culturalism!"

"Differences can be additive." (Saint Exupery??)

[Arpa]

Recognizing differences does not mean opposing - as in a confrontation - the two! There exist differences for historical reasons that go beyond the Genocide.
The denial of differences in the name of "political correctness" is a form of "a-culturalism!"

"Differences can be additive." (Saint Exupery??)

Atom Jan. Let me call you by your given name of Atom Yarjanian

You may have missed the smiley I placed after the word "war". Just for that here are a few more

[Siamanto]

Atom Jan. Let me call you by your given name of Atom Yarjanian

On one condition! Each time you use it, you have to say something "informative/educational" about my work!

You may have missed the smiley I placed after the word "war". Just for that here are a few more (3x)

Yes, I did miss the meaning of the smiley! Sorry!

PS. It's hard to reply - with a smile - to a post with too many smileys without violating forum rules!

Edited by Siamanto, 03 February 2005 - 10:12 PM.

[ckBejug]

Apparently, there exists many variants of this song/game! I remember it as:

Tashginag m@ tskel gouzem yes, gouzem yes, gouzem yes
Tashginag m@ tskel gouzem yes, pari getsoghin, ??????

Another game/song:
Menk g@ khaghank andarin metch yerp vor kayl@ hos tche
Kayl, kayl our es toun?
The wolf responds something different each time. At the end, the wolf comes out to scare the children!

You're right about the Tashginag song, it's tsekel, not hantsnel.

As for kayl kayl oores tooon?! I remember playing that like tag. 'Agraneres ge levam gorrr', 'mazers ge sandrem gorr', (we always said the gor too)... And then whoever was the kail would run around trying to yell and scare us and catch us. Ahh I miss being that little.

Edited by ckBejug, 04 February 2005 - 12:09 PM.

[Harut]

nairi, i know i promised you something here... sorry for not following up on it... soon...

[nairi]

That's okay Harut I'm still waiting for my brother to digitalize a tape I have made for the diaspora with children songs and propaganda poems that we got from Armenia in the early 80s. I'll put it on the net for download once I get it. It's quite interesting and I think not available anymore.