64 replies to this topic

[Arpa]

see arpa , if you would know something about armenian history you wouldnt ask this question gere now and today . you are amusing me really ...

Me? Know Armenian History? It is equal to 0000000
Now let us hear your version of "Armenian History" and tell us when Istanbul was ever an Armenian City, and who it was that promised it to us. Please don't tell us that it was prophesied in that Book of Lies as our "Promised Lands".
please wake up and smell the Apricot blossoms. Yerevan is our Promised Land. As to Istanbul, it can sink at the bottom of Marmara/Qaqmara.
When is the last time that so called Patriarchate of Istanbul promoted our quest, except to be used by Ankara to show thw world how "tolerant" they are allowing a Christian church to exist. Tell us when Ankara allowed that patriarchate to repair their own buildings?
Benevolence/tolerance and turkism are not synonimous.

Edited by Arpa, 23 July 2007 - 09:32 AM.

[DeLaLa]

DeLaLa i know that the recognition of the armenian genocide by the US and the international community as a whole (when it happens), will bring great misfortunes to the armenians who r living in turkey! that is something that the armenians of turkey know and despite that they still continue to live there! that is their choice, we respect it, we admire their bravery for staying there but that does not mean that the rest of the diaspora (which was created by the armenians who were forced to leave turkey and were lucky enough to survive) will not continue to struggle for truth and justice!

hello abass , yes , i agree with you at some points .

look people , my oppinion is that first of all its important that the EU recognized genocide and makes turkey recognize genocide or else th EU door will be closed to them . also in my oppinion turkey wil never recognize it , not for the EU , not for anyone . turkeys anti-genocide machinery is going deeper and deeper year by year , and this already for the past 92 years . their propaganda is neverending . ultranationalism is constantly growing in turkey .
genocide resolution in usa ... well , armenian genocide is in one way recognized , the only problem is the term "GENOCIDE" . the turks have a big huge problem with this word . the usa uses armenians only as a playball whenever they want to threaten turkey , like for example these days "if you do gas-business with iran we will name the massacres as GENOCIDE ; if you enter north-iraq we will call the armenian massacres as GENOCIDE " and so forth ...
where is the moral of the usa ? do we have to wait each time usa gets angry to turkey to hope we will get something good out of it ? today ,monday , if you people follow the genocide news , is another imoral day like that in america .

ok , lets get back to armenians living in turkey ...

i will ask you all a question now , and i want you people to answer mature and honest .

if all armenians leave turkey for good what is going to happen with all these :


what will happen with all these churches and our armenian graveyards (where me personally i have my family ancestors burried since 4 generations)

110 armenian churches


and what will happen with all these armenian orphanages and schools ?

58 armenian schools


what will happen with all the children in our orphanages ?

who will then in future have the direct dialogue with the turkish government , if the diaspora so far rejects any dialogue ?


another thing i would like you people also to consider and to realize is that not every armenian in turkey is rich and has the possibilities to move out of the country . 3000 young armenians have already left the past weeks , but dont think it is easy to split up families and friends and just leave a country where you have a job and an armenian social life .

[DominO]

Istanbul was not part of Western Armenia..., there is virtually no Armenian in Western Armenia. Armenians who remains in Istanbul have no business there. It's not like Turkey's life standards is that good. They should move out of there, they can all move to Armenia.

hello abass , yes , i agree with you at some points .

look people , my oppinion is that first of all its important that the EU recognized genocide and makes turkey recognize genocide or else th EU door will be closed to them . also in my oppinion turkey wil never recognize it , not for the EU , not for anyone . turkeys anti-genocide machinery is going deeper and deeper year by year , and this already for the past 92 years . their propaganda is neverending . ultranationalism is constantly growing in turkey .
genocide resolution in usa ... well , armenian genocide is in one way recognized , the only problem is the term "GENOCIDE" . the turks have a big huge problem with this word . the usa uses armenians only as a playball whenever they want to threaten turkey , like for example these days "if you do gas-business with iran we will name the massacres as GENOCIDE ; if you enter north-iraq we will call the armenian massacres as GENOCIDE " and so forth ...
where is the moral of the usa ? do we have to wait each time usa gets angry to turkey to hope we will get something good out of it ? today ,monday , if you people follow the genocide news , is another imoral day like that in america .

ok , lets get back to armenians living in turkey ...

i will ask you all a question now , and i want you people to answer mature and honest .

if all armenians leave turkey for good what is going to happen with all these :
what will happen with all these churches and our armenian graveyards (where me personally i have my family ancestors burried since 4 generations)

110 armenian churches
and what will happen with all these armenian orphanages and schools ?

58 armenian schools
what will happen with all the children in our orphanages ?

who will then in future have the direct dialogue with the turkish government , if the diaspora so far rejects any dialogue ?
another thing i would like you people also to consider and to realize is that not every armenian in turkey is rich and has the possibilities to move out of the country . 3000 young armenians have already left the past weeks , but dont think it is easy to split up families and friends and just leave a country where you have a job and an armenian social life .

Edited by Domino, 23 July 2007 - 10:56 AM.

[DeLaLa]

Istanbul was not part of Western Armenia..., there is virtually no Armenian in Western Armenia. Armenians who remains in Istanbul have no business there. It's not like Turkey's life standards is that good. They should move out of there, they can all move to Armenia.

yes yes dominojan , you are totally right and also all the armenians living in california dont have any business there , california is or was never a part of western or eastern armenia too no ? and should also move all to armenia ... yes , all the armenians on this world should move to armenia hahaha ...

why are you domino not living in armenia ?

Edited by DeLaLa, 23 July 2007 - 06:03 PM.

[Arpa]

Quotes by DeLaLa

if all armenians leave turkey for good what is going to happen with all these :
what will happen with all these churches and our armenian graveyards (where me personally i have my family ancestors burried since 4 generations)

When did a graveyard become a place for the living?

110 armenian churches

When did the church become a house for people? Is it not a “house of God”? Is not God “omnipresent”, present in all places? Remember the 1001 churches of Ani? Where are they now?

and what will happen with all these armenian orphanages and schools ?
58 armenian schools
what will happen with all the children in our orphanages ?

That news is as stale/bayat as turkish ekmek of yesteryear.
Wy are there orphangaes in Istanbul? Did their parents die in the battle for liberation of Artsakh?
And when did an orphanage become a home? Why orphanages? Where are their parents? And those “schools”? What do they teach? Armenology and Armenian History? History according to who?

Edited by Arpa, 23 July 2007 - 12:58 PM.

[DeLaLa]

@Arpa , sorry but i dont discuss on such primitive level , if you want to discuss in a more cultivated and logic way do so , but i will not waist my energy on posting back to any rediculous comments .

[Johannes]

Hello Delala,
Who is the actor of your avatar?
Is he a french comedien ?
By the way can I ask Arpa, what does mean ''Cospatan'' in any language?

Edited by Johannes, 23 July 2007 - 11:49 AM.

[Anoushik]

also all the armenians living in california dont have any business there , california is or was never a part of western or eastern armenia too no ? and should also move all to armenia ... yes , all the armenians on this world should move to armenia hahaha ...

How can you compare Armenians living in other countries with Armenians living in Turkey? There is no comparison. None.

[Anoushik]

i will ask you all a question now , and i want you people to answer mature and honest .

if all armenians leave turkey for good what is going to happen with all these :
what will happen with all these churches and our armenian graveyards (where me personally i have my family ancestors burried since 4 generations)

110 armenian churches
and what will happen with all these armenian orphanages and schools ?

58 armenian schools
what will happen with all the children in our orphanages ?

who will then in future have the direct dialogue with the turkish government , if the diaspora so far rejects any dialogue ?
another thing i would like you people also to consider and to realize is that not every armenian in turkey is rich and has the possibilities to move out of the country . 3000 young armenians have already left the past weeks , but dont think it is easy to split up families and friends and just leave a country where you have a job and an armenian social life .

What? I refuse to believe that the Armenians living in Turkey are doing it out of goodwill for the future Armenians. They are only living there because 1) it's convenient at the moment, or 2) they don't think the threat to their lives is big enough for them to spend money to move out of there.

Edit: PS. Which, the second point is tied directly to the first point. It's a matter of convenience.

Edited by anoushik, 23 July 2007 - 01:02 PM.

[DeLaLa]

How can you compare Armenians living in other countries with Armenians living in Turkey? There is no comparison. None.

anoushik , why are you not living in armenia ? where is your family originally from ?

What? I refuse to believe that the Armenians living in Turkey are doing it out of goodwill for the future Armenians. They are only living there because 1) it's convenient at the moment, or 2) they don't think the threat to their lives is big enough for them to spend money to move out of there.

Edit: PS. Which, the second point is tied directly to the first point. It's a matter of convenience.

anoushik , you did NOT answer my question about what will happen to all these armenian institutions and who will take care of them in case all armenians leave turkey ! i asked a simple question and all i get is barab sarab answers .

ohhh ... and do you believe armenia is socially and financially going to take care of these armenians if they come as refugees to armenia and immediately give them a place with 4 walls to live in ? or how do you imagine an armenian moving away from turkey to any other country with a turkish citizenship will be allowed to just stay ? i think you people think its as easy as "hey lets pack our clothes and tomorrow we move to armenia or italy " ... think realistic once !

http://www.panarmeni.../eng/?nid=2279827.06.2007

Vartan Oskanian expressed satisfaction with the activation of relations between the Turkish Armenian community and Armenia. He pointed out to the growing number of Istanbul Armenians visiting Armenia and strengthening ties with the homeland. “Under the leadership of Patriarch Mesbob Mutafyan, the well-organized and hard-working Armenian community lives and runs national institutions. The life of Diaspora is not easy. It’s hard to live far from the homeland, but Armenians of Istanbul live is special conditions and maintain their traditions,” the Armenian Minister said

Edited by DeLaLa, 23 July 2007 - 03:20 PM.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

DeLaLa i know that the recognition of the armenian genocide by the US and the international community as a whole (when it happens), will bring great misfortunes to the armenians who r living in turkey! that is something that the armenians of turkey know and despite that they still continue to live there! that is their choice, we respect it, we admire their bravery for staying there but that does not mean that the rest of the diaspora (which was created by the armenians who were forced to leave turkey and were lucky enough to survive) will not continue to struggle for truth and justice!

That's an interesting way of reinforcing the statement by made by delala. What are you trying to say?...armenians behave yourself or the bolsahays will suffer? If given a chance, just like Hrant Dink, every single armenian who lives in turkey, including the hidden armenians, will come out to openly declare that there was a genocide. Do you honestly belive you can silence them all? To add salt to your wounde, I must say that 'the armenians who live in turkey', and the armenians from other parts of the world are the same people.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

hello abass , yes , i agree with you at some points .

"look people , my oppinion is that first of all its important that the EU recognized genocide and makes turkey recognize genocide or else th EU door will be closed to them. also in my oppinion turkey wil never recognize it , not for the EU , not for anyone . turkeys anti-genocide machinery is going deeper and deeper year by year , and this already for the past 92 years . their propaganda is neverending . ultranationalism is constantly growing in turkey .

anti-genocide machinery is going deeper and deeper...their propaganda is neverending. ultranationalism is constantly growing int turkey. turks spend 2billion euros a year on anti-genocide compaign. the image you try to create here is the following...my d!@& is bigger than yours. i got a news for you boy, the turks are fighting a lost battle. only the fact that the armenians made a come back and they fight for the truth is a vicotry byitself. the turks have faild and they will never find their place among the people of the world unless they come face to face with the truth. this isn't an issue that will go away.

"genocide resolution in usa ... well , armenian genocide is in one way recognized , the only problem is the term "GENOCIDE" ."

didn't you earlier in your previous post underestimated the importance of the word 'GENOCIDE'?

"the turks have a big huge problem with this word ."

the turks have a big huge problem with an identity issue

"the usa uses armenians only as a playball whenever they want to threaten turkey ,"

in the world of politics u.s. got many cards to play against turkey. the armenians issue, in fact, is the

"like for example these days "if you do gas-business with iran we will name the massacres as GENOCIDE ;"

what the hell are you talking about? armenia does 'gas-business with iran' and not the single time the u.s. government has used that card against the armenians. why you thin that is, they have run out all the options with turkey and don't care about what armenia does with iran?

"ifyou enter north-iraq we will call the armenian massacres as GENOCIDE " and so forth ... "

give me an at least one example when anyone from the state department, the pentagon, or the congress directly or indirectly has mad such a statement.

"whereis the moral of the usa ? do we have to wait each time usa gets angry to turkey to hope we will get something good out of it ? today ,monday , if you people follow the genocide news , is another imoral day like that in america ."

we'll get back to the moral of the u.s. after you answer to my questions addressed to you. until then, i want you to explain to me about the moral of the International Association of Genocide Scholars who openly declared that what the turks did was an act of genocide. you aren't gonna claim the genocide scholars from all parts of the world act by the orders of the u.s, , right?

"ok,lets get back to armenians living in turkey ..."

but don't forget you have earlier made several contradictory statements about the 'armenians living in turkey...'. you think after all that you are qualified to talk about millions of armenians who live in turkey?

"iwill ask you all a question now , and i want you people to answer mature and honest ."

what makes you think 'people' on this forum are not 'mature and honest'? are you questioning the moral of the forum members?

"
if all armenians leave turkey for good what is going to happen with all these :
what will happen with all these churches and our armenian graveyards (where me personally i have my family ancestors burried since 4 generations)"

what is this preconditioned thought you are inforcing upon people? who said the armenians will live the lands where they have lived since the birth day of this nation?

"
110 armenian churches
and what will happen with all these armenian orphanages and schools ?"

??? answer to the question from above, then we'll get back to this question.

"
58 armenian schools
what will happen with all the children in our orphanages ? "

???

"
who will then in future have the direct dialogue with the turkish government , if the diaspora so far rejects any dialogue ?"

the provocative nature of your question suggests that you are not giving an 'honest and mature' approach to the issue we talk about. the Armenian-genocide issue isn't a diaspora armenian issue. if the turks wanna dialogue, they must first do it with their own neighbor. the blockade of armenia by the turks from turkey and azerbaijan shows how much the filthy leftovers are interested to have dialogue. you think thecountry were the people are killed, imprisoned, and tortured for simply saying the word genocide will be able to have a dialogue?

"
another thing i would like you people also to consider and to realize is that not every armenian in turkey is rich and has the possibilities to move out of the country .'

well the turks are the mexicans of europe and they mostly live their country for europe in search of a better life. how many rich citizens of turkey do you know who left the country...?

"
3000 young armenians have already left the past weeks , "

where did you get this number from?

"but dont think it is easy to split up families and friends and just leave a country where you have a job and an armenian social life"

just before the school day the children in turkey are foced to say 'i'm a turk, and i'm proude of that'. in a country were from the early age the people are poisoned to hate all the others who dare to be different you can't possible have an armenian social life. there are over 2 million hidden armenians who life in turkey. why you think that is? how you forgotten that the filthy turks even tried to prove that Mutafyan himself is not armenian? in a country where people are targeted simply for being different you can hardly have any kind of social life.


Edit: Fixed quotes - anoushik

Edited by anoushik, 23 July 2007 - 11:45 PM.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

yes yes dominojan , you are totally right and also all the armenians living in california dont have any business there ,

says who?

"california is or was never a part of western or eastern armenia too no ?"

california is part of the united states of america. it is also called a nation of emigrants where people from all parts of the world, for whatever reason it might be, have chosen by their free will to move and live there. you got a problem with that?

"and should also move all to armenia ... yes , all the armenians on this world should move to armenia hahaha ..."

and millions of parasite turks must live asia minor for other parts of the world. you already claimed '3000 young armenians from turkey have left the country in the past weeks'. do you know the number of the turks who left turkey on that same period of time?...also, can you tell me how many turk now live in europe?...and why they have left turkey?

why are you domino not living in armenia ?

and who are you to ask him that question?


Edit: Fixed quotes - anoushik

Edited by anoushik, 23 July 2007 - 11:36 PM.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

@Arpa , sorry but i dont discuss on such primitive level , if you want to discuss in a more cultivated and logic way do so , but i will not waist my energy on posting back to any rediculous comments .

at least say which part of his post was ridiculous

[Aratta-Kingdom]

anoushik , why are you not living in armenia ?

say what? who the f#@& are you asking her such a personal question?

"where is your family originally from ?"

it's none of your business

"anoushik , you did NOT answer my question about what will happen to all these armenian institutions and who will take care of them in case all armenians leave turkey ! i asked a simple question and all i get is barab sarab answers ."

before anushik gets back to that question, why don't you reply to my question about your question!?!

"ohhh ..."

what? ...you just did on yourself...?

"and do you believe armenia is socially and financially going to take care of these armenians if they come as refugees to armenia and immediately give them a place with 4 walls to live in ?"

what happens in my family is none of your business.

"or how do you imagine an armenian moving away from turkey to any other country with a turkish citizenship will be allowed to just stay ?"

you said 3000 young armenians have left turkey in the past weeks. since you speak for everyone, who don't you say how they should live in their host countries

"
i think you people"

you people? you keep using this expression as if you been sent from above to teach these ignorant children how to live on the face of the earth. if that is the case, why the hell do you wast your time, as you already said, having stupid arguments with 'these people'? don't have something better to do in life?

"
think its as easy as "hey lets pack our clothes and tomorrow we move to armenia or italy " ... think realistic once !"

no kidding


Edit: Fixed quotes - anoushik

Edited by anoushik, 23 July 2007 - 11:34 PM.

[DeLaLa]

hello Aratta-Kingdom ,

That's an interesting way of reinforcing the statement by made by delala. What are you trying to say?...armenians behave yourself or the bolsahays will suffer?

usa should recognize armenian genocide , BUT (thats what i originally meant ) but the diaspora has to in that case also count with harming the armenians still living in turkey . the diaspora should be aware of this fact .
turkey often also has this argument " why are so many armenian citizens coming to turkey and living/working here? " . so , Aratta-Kingdom , lets say all armenians with turkish citizenships leave turkey ... do you believe the armenia-armenians are also going to leave turkey ?

say what? who the f#@& are you asking her such a personal question?

i think if anushik wants to tell me that my question to her was too personal she is able to tell me herself .

before anushik gets back to that question, why don't you reply to my question about your question!?!

because you dont answer a question with a question . very simple.

you said 3000 young armenians have left turkey in the past weeks. since you speak for everyone, who don't you say how they should live in their host countries

i didnt understand your question here . "since you speak for everyone, who don't you say how they should live in their host countries"... please explain what you mean here .

you people? you keep using this expression as if you been sent from above to teach these ignorant children how to live on the face of the earth. if that is the case, why the hell do you wast your time, as you already said, having stupid arguments with 'these people'? don't have something better to do in life?

with "you people" i am referring to the posters in this thread . this forum is also here for armenians to discuss isnt it ? why do you have the feeling i am more prior to others here ? just because i want to show you another side of thinking ? or is it that a woman to maybe from your personal oppinion shouldnt have such sights ? is it not allowed to have different oppinions in this forum ? do i have to bitch and swear about turkey 24/7 to be accepted ? no , i dont have to . and i dont think i am waisting my time in this forum . i think everyone who is able to discuss in a cultivated mature manner can with me . but for a discussion one needs plausible argumentations .

at least say which part of his post was ridiculous

i find it rediculous to discuss with an armenian forum-user who swears vulgar , just because someone has a different oppinion than you . i think you can just as well articulate yourself more cultivated .

didn't you earlier in your previous post underestimated the importance of the word 'GENOCIDE'?

see, with your negative attitude towards me you understand everything i write in a negative way ...
i just wanted to point out that america has never denied armenian genocide , that it is all about the word "genocide" with which the americans can get revench on the turks next time america has problems with the turkish state . usa uses us as a playball . we all know how sensitive the term GENOCIDE is for turks .

[Arpa]

@Arpa , sorry but i dont discuss on such primitive level , if you want to discuss in a more cultivated and logic way do so , but i will not waist my energy on posting back to any rediculous comments .

Why am I even responding under this subject topic. ? What do I care aout Mutaf and his ilk? BTW, my dictionary says "mutaf" is a maker goat hair goods.

Which part of my comments did you find ridiculous?
The part where you cited 58 orphanages? Can you tell us the names and locations of those orphanages, and how many residents they have? Are you not talking about the 1915 s and the 1920s? Where are thses orphans coming from and why?

Or was it my invocation of the “1001 churches of Ani”, or the “Museum” at Akdamar? At least, that church was converted to a museum and not a stable, a nightclub or mosque.

To better understand what happens to churches in foreign lands , and what happens to the “1001 churches of Ani” see an excerpt below. And if you think this will not happen in other foreign countries , including America…!?

See the complete article in the Reporter or on Groong July 22, 07

3. Many Armenians leave Baghdad for northern Iraq -- or Armenia * Relief Fund helps families move to Armenia by Armen Hakobyan YEREVAN -- The number of Armenians in Baghdad in recent years has dropped to 15 thousand from 20 thousand, according to Dr. Vehooni Minasian, vice-chair of the Armenian Diocesan Council of Iraq. The ongoing fighting, the periodic acts of terrorism, and kidnappings for ransom have had their toll on all who make Iraq their home. Iraqi-Armenians have been no exception. The presence of Armenian peacekeepers in Iraq may have added to the vulnerability of Iraqi-Armenians. The sixth contingent of peacekeepers, comprising 46 soldiers, left for Iraq on July 18, replacing the fifth contingent that was there since February 2. Meanwhile, citing the Beirut Armenian daily Aztag, panarmenian.net reports that a car bomb exploded in front of the Armenian Embassy in Baghdad on July 16. According to the same source, the car belonged to the Iraqi police. The embassy has not been operating since the beginning of the war, and the staff are not in Iraq. Dr. Minasian responded to the Armenian Reporter's written questions this week. "Everywhere community life is practically paralyzed. There are four churches in Baghdad, one each in Basra, Kirkuk, Zakho, and the Armenian village of Avzrug, and two in Mosul, one of which is newly built and was subjected to a terrorist attack in 2004. While it is hard to attend church in some areas, nonetheless our community last year laid the foundation for a new church in [the northern city of] Duhok." The Mother See at Holy Etchmiadzin is in constant contact with the diocese, Dr. Minassian reports. Many Armenian communities responded generously to an appeal by the Catholicos to help the Iraqi-Armenian community. "We understand that our compatriots who have taken refuge in Armenia did not having difficulties relocating there. In the United States, in Los Angeles, alumni of Iraqi-Armenian schools have been sending money to the community and have been supporting the schools here." Dr. Minasian confirms reports that many Armenian families are moving to the north of Iraq, where life is safer. Erbil and the former Armenian village of Havrezk have received the bulk of the Armenian refugees, about 100 families in each location, he says**…..

** Note that by moving north they get closer to Turkey and hence an easier target in case....

Edited by Arpa, 24 July 2007 - 07:34 AM.

[Johannes]

Սասնոյ մէջ ալ Աւզրուկ անունով գիւղ մը կար:

[DeLaLa]

@Arpa

Why am I even responding under this subject topic. ? What do I care aout Mutaf and his ilk? BTW, my dictionary says "mutaf" is a maker goat hair goods.

dont you have any intelligent argument other than putting disrespectful names to our patriarch out of desperation ?

Which part of my comments did you find ridiculous?
The part where you cited 58 orphanages? Can you tell us the names and locations of those orphanages, and how many residents they have? Are you not talking about the 1915 s and the 1920s? Where are thses orphans coming from and why?

i wrote 58 armenian schools AND orphanages , and if you want the full list with names you may click to : www.bolsohays.com for details ! very simple.
i am not talking about 1915 nor 1920 . i am talking about the present .

Or was it my invocation of the “1001 churches of Ani”, or the “Museum” at Akdamar? At least, that church was converted to a museum and not a stable, a nightclub or mosque.

yes you are right , "At least, that church was converted to a museum and not a stable, a nightclub or mosque" BUT therefore the armenian patriarchate in jerusalem has turned their building into a gay-disco .

http://hetq.am/eng/s...-jerusalem.html

Shalom! We are the Moalem family living in the city center of Jerusalem near the municipality buildings. We have lived for 40 years on the first floor of a building at 4 Shushan Street. This is actually a narrow, small, once quiet, one-way street and the building is owned by the Armenian Church. Two and one half years ago, the homosexual community in this city opened its nightclub right under our apartment and named it after the street, “Shushan.” ...

http://www.hetq.am/e...-jerusalem.html [April 2, 2007]

Hetq received a letter from Gideon Moalem, resident of Jerusalem, in which he voices his displeasure with a gay nightclub located in a building owned by the Armenian Patriarchate in Jerusalem...

Edited by DeLaLa, 24 July 2007 - 09:21 AM.

[Arpa]

If, even for a moment tou think that I give a hoot about Patriarch/Matriarch, whatever else "arch", and his ilk, like clergy of any rank, church and religion, please read my other posts. If they can grow a beard, if they are so cheap to even buy a razor, so can I.
If he needs my respect then he should respect me and change his "mutafoglu" surname to Armenian, something like Mesrop Mashtotsian etc. , Oh! Now you're gonna tell me having an Armenian surname in turkey is a virtual death sentence? Until then, he and his predecessors, the likes of Patriarch Kazanji-oglu will get zilch respect from me. Do you know Turkish? Do you know what "fakh@ osouroursa ehali schar"?
When will we stop becoming a "millet", stop being a denomination and start becoming a NATION?
All the "patriarchs", all those "millet bashi-s" going all the way back to year 301 can go to that place that they so ardently preach that we don't..

Edited by Arpa, 24 July 2007 - 02:19 PM.