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#21 MJ

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Posted 01 January 2002 - 08:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by edward demian:
Since Armenia does not really want the Diasporan Armenians, we need to think of our own survival.


???

Survival for what purpose?

#22 Harut

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Posted 01 January 2002 - 11:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MJ:


???

Survival for what purpose?



exactly. why?

this is another weird side of Armenians.(or they pretend to have that side)

they spit on their homeland, leave it, then prase Armenia , do whatever it takes to show that they are Armenians, but never think about returning back and taking some serious actions.

#23 Boghos

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Posted 02 January 2002 - 05:14 AM

quote:
Originally posted by edward demian:
We have had the same diverse reaction from our own members as well. Some of us are practicalists and some of us are purists.
We want to build something that would reawaken the Armenianess of the community. Allready this area of Southern California is all Spanish. Our chilldren are being absorbed in the Mexican community. Thete are few Native English speakers. If this last generation is lost to our culture, we will be here no more. Armenia has no future without the Diaspora. If we would have sent the money during the Communist times, it would have been sequestered by the Communists.
Now we do send money to Armenia. However, If you want to talk about a waste. Talk about the Gulbenkian Millions left to charity. The Armenians get very little of it. We need churches,schools, cultural centers, cemetaries, Printing houses, libraries and Theters. Since Armenia does not really want the Diasporan Armenians, we need to think of our own survival.




It is not by building an ersatz Ste. Hripsime that you will survive. Not a cemetery, library, printing house or whatever. You will not survive. The diaspora will die, at different speeds to be sure, but it will die. There are a few Armenian churches scattered all over the world where there are no Armenians anymore: Myanmar, Singapore for example. There is a nice Hay Doon in Santiago, Chile, it is almost abandoned. Where are the Armenians from Poland and Hungary ? In museums or written up in books, or at the most they are some kind of peculiar subject for a magazine.

Of course there are some that consider themselves Armenians, and even fierce nationalists, that cannot accept that. But they are just fooling themselves. I am a second generation Armenian, speak the language, have been to Armenia, own numerous books on it, etc. In two or three generations this will be transformed into almost nothing, or merely a curiousity.

Whatīs the point in building something that everybody will attend essentially only the inauguration party. We have more than enough white elephants.

You donīt need to send the money to Armenia or Karabagh. But for example an endowment to support graduate studies for Armenians from Armenia at a US university will be much more useful. Actually I can think of tens of better projects. We donīt need more churches, we need more faithful people.

#24 MJ

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Posted 02 January 2002 - 06:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Boghos:


Of course there are some that consider themselves Armenians, and even fierce nationalists, that cannot accept that.



Exactly! They consider themselves to be Armenians. But that belonging is too superficial. As to the nationalism, they pretend to be nationalists. They are just small, petty people, with an enormous luggage of hate and nothing else. These superficial nationalists have no homeland. They are just fictitious enemy haters and animosity perpetuators.

#25 wh00t

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Posted 02 January 2002 - 08:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Boghos:


There are a few Armenian churches scattered all over the world where there are no Armenians anymore: Myanmar, Singapore for example.



Interestingly, but kind of off-topic, my Diocese calendar indicates that the St. John the Baptist Armenian Church in Burma (Myanmar) is still active.

#26 khodja

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Posted 02 January 2002 - 09:38 AM

The "time bomb" of the dissipation of the diaspora, as well as the destruction of the motherland lies in our culture. So many in the diaspora marry out of the community. Only a small percentage bring their spouses into the community. A larger number leave the community. In diaspora lands, the Armenian psyche is stifling to the young. As for the homeland, how can the "nor harousts" be satisifed building castles in the hills while so many are starving? Also, the building of magnificent cathedrals will not feed the hungry mouths of little children. No wonder so many are leaving for greener pastures.

#27 MosJan

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Posted 02 January 2002 - 10:41 AM

By Boghos
" You donīt need to send the money to Armenia or Karabagh. But for example an endowment to support graduate studies for Armenians from Armenia at a US university will be much more useful. Actually I can think of tens of better projects. We donīt need more churches, we need more faithful people. "


Excellent points !!!

#28 Boghos

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Posted 02 January 2002 - 11:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by wh00t:


Interestingly, but kind of off-topic, my Diocese calendar indicates that the St. John the Baptist Armenian Church in Burma (Myanmar) is still active.



I was in Yangon (Rangoon) a few years back and had the chance to visit the church. It is well kept and services are conducted there once in a while. But there is no active community, just a benefactor that keeps things going and a few people that show up once in a while. The Armenians in Myanmar (Burma) where brought over by the British to help running things. Of course a few merchants showed up as well. When Myanmar started loosing its importance, and it was very important, the Armenians started to leave.

#29 MosJan

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Posted 29 April 2002 - 10:05 PM

Over the month a go I was in Palm Desert, visiting a family friend, after the first 20 minutes, the normal Armenian questions, eh inchpes siretsir mer Palm desert@? Iyster el Hayer kan, iyster lav e mez hamar ( over 65 years old), hangsit enq, ha gites Haykakan Yekeretsy en karutsum.
A new church in palm desert. Our friend was so proud that a new church was going to be build.
In this trailer park, where 10-12 Armenians war staying, it simd that they did need a church. Each and every one proudly told me haw the location of the church ahs been chosen and that has been blessed.
He promised me to teak me to the location and show me the place of the new church, but angina after 5 different mineral water pools and a good dinner - church was not the subject of the conversation anymore, it was time to remember the good old days~~~

#30 joseph

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Posted 03 May 2002 - 09:50 AM

TO EDWARD.MY ARMENIAN FRIEND.DONT LISTEN TO THOSE WITH SMALL BRAIN.DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO .DID YOU HEAR THIS PROVERB THAT SAYS...{THE CARAVAN DRIVES,WHILE THE DOGS BARK}.DO NOT LISTEN TO THOSE WHO LOST TOUCH WHITH THEIR ROOTS.....

#31 15levels

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Posted 15 May 2002 - 02:18 AM

I cannot help but to think this- I personally don't think that building a church in Palm Springs will bring faith to the Armenian community. And I 100% agree with the point which Steve made- why don't give this project to some daring young Armenian architect and spend your money to help growing talent instead of copying a church which stands and will stand for another millenium (unless some corrupt official/clerk will sell it for few pieces of silver). Even to make a reconstruction of one of the many damaged/demolished Armenian churches in Western Armenia will be much more useful. No?

#32 edward demian

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Posted 16 May 2002 - 01:01 AM

some answers to your comments. It is not expensive to bring a container load of material to US from Armenia. I too thought that the shipping costs would be prohibitive. To my surprise, one can ship a container of approx 18.5 Metric tons which is about 38,850 Lbs. Actually you can cram anything in the container and the cost would be the same. Water transport is charged by the volume not the weight. However, once you get it off the boat, the container is subject to the local transport laws which makes it overweight for land transport. The cost to ship a container from Armenia to the Georgian Port of Poti and on to the US is $2500. thats less than 7 cents per Lb.
How is that? ANOTHER MITH SHATTERRED. Folks, GOODS AND SERVICES ARE VERY CHEAP in the Caucasus. There are great opportunities for making money dealing with Armenia.
About the comment referring to people that build mantions whille others starve. Free enterprise is proven to be the most efficient system. When I hear people from Armenia critisizing the nor haroust (nuveau rich), I can't help but think that it must come from a former Communist who lived very well on the back of the people, producing nothing, but once in a whille turning in a friend or relative, maybie a little torture here and there, and then send them to Siberia so they wont come back to tell others, all the whille shopping at priviledged Party Only stores, living in the best Housing, (free)whille a quarter of the population went through the meatgrinder. Yeah these people had no skills then, and they are obsolete now. They are reaping the benefits of a free society. Perhaps we should apply the same penal laws on them for treason and worse, for all their past crimes.
The rich people of today produce goods and services and are rewarded for their efforts. Parasites get what they deserve.
About the Church. The money saved was money made by old ladies and widows, most of which have been long dead. It started with small donations, but compounded interest made all the difference. Once we reached $400,000 than we started to earn $25,000 a year just in interest. We also donated money to other Armenian charities and Organizations. We have had a very hard time holding on to this money. Between the church trying to take it away from us, and thieves trying to embezzle it, its been a fight.
Why survive as an Armenian, well if you don't know the answer to that than perhaps you don't deserve to survive. I said that Armenia needs the Diaspora. What would Israel be without their diaspora. Armenia without the diaspora would be another Georgia or worse. Armenia should sustain the diaspora culturally and in return the diaspora sustains Armenia financially. But for that to work well, we need to get the illiterate dinasaurs out of the Government and replace them with young fresh, educated Armenians with a clear vision for the future. What vision does the Armenian Communist party have? A vision of Stalinist days gone by? The Germans outlawed the Nazi Party after the war because that party was recognized as being the greatest disaster that ever happened on Germany. The Communist party has to go for the same reason. Universal Armenian suffrage for all Armenians in the diaspora is the only way. Automatic dual cityzenship for all Armenians? Subsidized repatriation to Armenia should be another. We don't need the rich people to go back as much as we need the poor Armenians languishing in the four corners of the world, to populate the country. We should people Karabagh with a million Armenians. We should have a land rush by 300,000 Armenians on Nachichevan. Than we can have a vote on whether it stays Azeri, Becomes Turkish or seeks independance. What do you think the outcome would be then?
Thse ideas are too far fetched? It's the Vision thing. You either have it or you don't. We don't have leaders.
However, I still hope. All I can do is take the criticism and like Noah, keep building that Ark.
Lond since after your 100% armenian kids are assimilated and gone, my quarte armenian chilldren will repopulate Armenia. Think about that for a whille.
"The comments above are esoteric generalities and not directed against any one particular forum member"

#33 joseph

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Posted 23 May 2002 - 08:08 AM

Edward jan, i loved everything you said because that is the truth about the comunists and the sosialists,and specialy what you said about the jewish diaspora.We need our diaspora loud and noisy because without it,who will even hear or care about a little country called Armenia unless it have lots of oil,but thanks to god that we have our Armenian diaspora that keeps presuring here and in europe to help Armenia,and we have to stay united,thats all i wanted to say my fellow armenian friend.

#34 MosJan

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 01:39 PM

 visiting palm springs yesterday.  your church was on our list of places to visit.
WoW Wow Wow
Edward Demian you / your community did a great job.
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#35 MosJan

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 01:39 PM

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#36 MosJan

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 01:53 PM

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