I have been surprised with the recent sympathy Armenians have for the Kurds, along with the call in some quarters for an alliance with them. I think history has shown them to be worse enemies of Armenians than the Turks ever were. They were the ones who often did the actual killings of Armenians during the holocaust. They also were notorious for kidnapping and raping Armenian women. In fact, in my family Kurds have been the object of hatred, not Turks. This might be due in part to my Great grandfather's experience with a just Turkish family who saved his life. Instead my Great Grandmother would call a murderer or criminal "Kurd." I am wondering why Armenians are so quick to forgive Kurds, but still hate the Turks? WHy are we so selective? I mistrust the Kurds much more than the Turks, and believe they would knife us in the back the first chance they get. By the way am I the only one who thinks the Mongolians need to fess up and repent for their ancestors slaughter of half the known world's population?
Is an alliance with the Kurds wise?
Started by
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, May 16 2000 04:35 PM
18 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 16 May 2000 - 08:10 PM
Well we can't really be sure that the Kurds today would backstab us if we help them. The Kurds are like a child with no parents, Turks used them. Thinking the Turks would help them the Kurds did the dirty work.
Let's be clear on one thing, we shouldn't hate Turks nor Kurds even if they have made horrible things to our ancestors. We should make peace, after all Armenians are known to be peaceful and forgiving.
I personally think that the Kurds should have their own land, Kurdistan, because they are about 30 000 000 I think, a lot more than us.
Let's be clear on one thing, we shouldn't hate Turks nor Kurds even if they have made horrible things to our ancestors. We should make peace, after all Armenians are known to be peaceful and forgiving.
I personally think that the Kurds should have their own land, Kurdistan, because they are about 30 000 000 I think, a lot more than us.
#3
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Posted 17 May 2000 - 08:29 AM
Some of us just think like "the enemies of our enemy are our friends". In this case I think it's wrong. To be sure you can check the map of Kurdistan. You'll be surprised finding Yerevan there.
#4
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Posted 17 May 2000 - 06:13 PM
Yes Raffi I agree with you, I am the first to call for forgiveness of the Turks and Kurds. But we should be careful who we make our alliances with. I also think Armenians should be careful of the Assyrians, just because they are Christian does not mean we should automatically consider them allies. Look at the Serbs and the Croats, they are both Christians, albeit different sects, and they hate each other! Assyrians and Armenians have not always had the best of relations in Iran. Also Greeks and Armenians often were at each other's throat during the Ottoman Empire, and I personally find Greeks to be very arrogant and ethnocentric! They always have considered themselves superior over Armenians, so phoeey on them! Like it or not we invented Bakhlava!
I think Armenia would do well to develop alliances with countries outside the Middle-east/ Caucasus realm. For instance India might prove to be a great ally.
I think Armenia would do well to develop alliances with countries outside the Middle-east/ Caucasus realm. For instance India might prove to be a great ally.
#5
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Posted 17 May 2000 - 06:56 PM
Of course, arranging an alliance is more complicated.
I didn't know about Armenian-Assyiran confrontation in Iran.
I'm afraid, though, that if we have an alliance it might get too strong and we Armenia would be influenced too much, you understand? Maybe I'm going too far here. Eh! I threw an idea.
Personally I like the ethnocentrism of Greeks, they have a lot to be proud of and it also UNITES them, what do you think? Did we really create BAKHLAVA?
I didn't know about Armenian-Assyiran confrontation in Iran.
I'm afraid, though, that if we have an alliance it might get too strong and we Armenia would be influenced too much, you understand? Maybe I'm going too far here. Eh! I threw an idea.
Personally I like the ethnocentrism of Greeks, they have a lot to be proud of and it also UNITES them, what do you think? Did we really create BAKHLAVA?
#6
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Posted 25 May 2000 - 06:41 AM
I'm totally agree with you on the issue of forgiving everybody for anything they have done. So, let us forgive the turks, the osmans, the seljuks, the mongols, and correspondingly Kaltenbruner, Hebbels, Himler and HITLER!!!, and, not to forget, Kain for killing his brotha Abel, and also the Satan, Lutsifer, Ariman, because... when you're out of Armenia sipping J&B on the rocks in some bar with a view of cool chik, the question who killed whom and in what quantities doesn,t really bother you.
#7
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Posted 25 May 2000 - 09:23 AM
hmmm. iyspes asem .
jisht e Irenk el MArt en jishte irenk el Tanjvum yev kotorvum en .
bayst te im tshnamus tshnamin im @enkers chi .
Rusner@ mi lav xosk unen
Protev Kavo drujim ?
nshanakuma Um hakarak enk @enkerutyun anum , kam n@man mi ban .
hima Qurderi masin to yes dranst hern em anitsel en vro Turker@ irents het lav eyin iranst mets axpern eyin lav er irank el dzeri het HAyerin kotorum u jartum talanum eyin.
hima vro mi 2 hat qurd en satkatsrel @enkel em mer orin hima menak enk irenst ognelu ,
hima HAykakan Asatsvatsk@ asum e
Hivandin Hivand jamanak petqa dastirakes . vor lavatsav votki kangnets viz@t k@treluya,
Dzadzya VAlod
kam ka espisy mi xosk ,
Qani Nerkevn em Vorkit poshin k@pachem , votki kangnetsy vizt em ktrelu ,
HAmo Bidza
enpes vro inchpes amerikatsik en asum Sirir sakayn vzi paran@ dzik pahi ,
jisht e Irenk el MArt en jishte irenk el Tanjvum yev kotorvum en .
bayst te im tshnamus tshnamin im @enkers chi .
Rusner@ mi lav xosk unen
Protev Kavo drujim ?
nshanakuma Um hakarak enk @enkerutyun anum , kam n@man mi ban .
hima Qurderi masin to yes dranst hern em anitsel en vro Turker@ irents het lav eyin iranst mets axpern eyin lav er irank el dzeri het HAyerin kotorum u jartum talanum eyin.
hima vro mi 2 hat qurd en satkatsrel @enkel em mer orin hima menak enk irenst ognelu ,
hima HAykakan Asatsvatsk@ asum e
Hivandin Hivand jamanak petqa dastirakes . vor lavatsav votki kangnets viz@t k@treluya,
Dzadzya VAlod
kam ka espisy mi xosk ,
Qani Nerkevn em Vorkit poshin k@pachem , votki kangnetsy vizt em ktrelu ,
HAmo Bidza
enpes vro inchpes amerikatsik en asum Sirir sakayn vzi paran@ dzik pahi ,
#8
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Posted 25 May 2000 - 04:29 PM
First of all Berj you are not even addressing the topic here: Is an alliance with the Kurds wise? I say forgive, but never forget, and also reparations must be paid by the perpetrators. I don't know if your comment about sipping whiskey at a bar was directed at me, but I don't drink! SO avoid the cheap shots. I could make cheap shots at your poor English writing skills but I don't! It seems that Armenians forgive selectively as it suits their purpose. There is so much outcry in the Armenian community about Turkey's treatment of the Kurds, but where were the Kurds during the Holocaust? Well Ill tell you where, burning Armenian villages and lynching, raping and pillaging! The Kurds will knife you in the back while all the while you are on guard against the Turk. They have no sympathy for anyone but themselves. Many of the Kurdish leaders of Iraq have betrayed the U.S. after all they have done for them. They are noted for turncoating! By the way Ararat is right, the Kurds claim the exact same territory as Armenians do. Do you think they are going to share nicely? Ha Ha! Watch out Armenians you are so busy hating the Boogie man Turk that your real enemies will pounce on you. It is ridiculous that Armenia harbor Kurdish groups and supports Kurdish culture, while having ethnically cleansed the republic of Azeris. Know your enemy!
#9
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Posted 25 May 2000 - 09:09 PM
I totaly agree with you Farsisteve. My grandmother also told me some stories about Kurds. How they stole their money, how they raped some armenian women,etc. And she also said when you turn back, Kurd can kill behind you. I grown up hearing how those people are not reliable. I don't trust them.
On the other hand, I think every armenian has to learn their history very well. Instead of focusing how much you hate Turks, or others, you have to focus on how you can learn your history correctly.
Bravo Farsisteve, it looks you know our history. At least somebody knows.
God bless you.
On the other hand, I think every armenian has to learn their history very well. Instead of focusing how much you hate Turks, or others, you have to focus on how you can learn your history correctly.
Bravo Farsisteve, it looks you know our history. At least somebody knows.
God bless you.
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Posted 28 May 2000 - 08:38 PM
I was recently talking to an Assyrian who immigrated from Turkey. He said that his family constantly had conflict with the local Kurds who would steal goats and other livestock from their farms. Go ahead Armenians be buddy buddy with these people!Berj you sound so sympathetic to the Kurds, you probably are a Ocalan supporter huh?The Turks on the other hand, never gave this man problems, and he said that he actually missed them and is planning on going back, but to a predominantly Turkish area. So much for alliances with the Kurds!
#11
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Posted 29 May 2000 - 04:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
I was recently talking to an Assyrian who immigrated from Turkey. He said that his family constantly had conflict with the local Kurds who would steal goats and other livestock from their farms. Go ahead Armenians be buddy buddy with these people!Berj you sound so sympathetic to the Kurds, you probably are a Ocalan supporter huh?The Turks on the other hand, never gave this man problems, and he said that he actually missed them and is planning on going back, but to a predominantly Turkish area. So much for alliances with the Kurds!
Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
I was recently talking to an Assyrian who immigrated from Turkey. He said that his family constantly had conflict with the local Kurds who would steal goats and other livestock from their farms. Go ahead Armenians be buddy buddy with these people!Berj you sound so sympathetic to the Kurds, you probably are a Ocalan supporter huh?The Turks on the other hand, never gave this man problems, and he said that he actually missed them and is planning on going back, but to a predominantly Turkish area. So much for alliances with the Kurds!
Farsi,
I don't know where from you came to the conclusion that I have simpathy for kurds. I grew up in a suberb of Yerevan when I as a kid was a member of some kind of gang (in Yerevan we all are up to 18-19). We were constantly fighting the ezids (pagan kurds), and I don't have any nice thoughts about them. There are no kurdish gurrila camps in Armenia. Turkey is just preparing an excuse to invade us again.
The last kurdish stronghold in Armenia was a mafia clan whose leader was Chako. He was killed and the clan was destroyed in 1992.
The kurds of Lachin region of Kharabagh were treated the same way as azeris during our offence.
So much for allances!
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Posted 29 May 2000 - 08:26 AM
Dear Berj
Now I have some insight as to why there are so many Hayastanstsi in gangs out here in California, they were in gangs over there in Armenia! Also I am not saying that Armenia is harboring PKK, but many Armenians I have spoke to , and some of the responses on this site seem to show a sympathy for Kurds. You yourself made some comment to Ani about the Turks doing the same to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians. First of all there is no comparison. THe Turkish government had a policy of genocide of the Armenian race. It was official and in writing. This doesn't even come close to modern Turkey's treatment of certain terrorist elements in the Kurdish population. I know that there is still a Kurdish population in Armenia. There is Kurdish radio broadcasts that are transmitted from Armenia to Turkey, Iran and Iraq. At least there was until 1997 when an uncle of my went to Armenia. You seem to think I am some sheltered American who has no clue of what is going on. Im not, I know more than you think.
Now I have some insight as to why there are so many Hayastanstsi in gangs out here in California, they were in gangs over there in Armenia! Also I am not saying that Armenia is harboring PKK, but many Armenians I have spoke to , and some of the responses on this site seem to show a sympathy for Kurds. You yourself made some comment to Ani about the Turks doing the same to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians. First of all there is no comparison. THe Turkish government had a policy of genocide of the Armenian race. It was official and in writing. This doesn't even come close to modern Turkey's treatment of certain terrorist elements in the Kurdish population. I know that there is still a Kurdish population in Armenia. There is Kurdish radio broadcasts that are transmitted from Armenia to Turkey, Iran and Iraq. At least there was until 1997 when an uncle of my went to Armenia. You seem to think I am some sheltered American who has no clue of what is going on. Im not, I know more than you think.
#13
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Posted 29 May 2000 - 09:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
Dear Berj
Now I have some insight as to why there are so many Hayastanstsi in gangs out here in California, they were in gangs over there in Armenia! Also I am not saying that Armenia is harboring PKK, but many Armenians I have spoke to , and some of the responses on this site seem to show a sympathy for Kurds. You yourself made some comment to Ani about the Turks doing the same to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians. First of all there is no comparison. THe Turkish government had a policy of genocide of the Armenian race. It was official and in writing. This doesn't even come close to modern Turkey's treatment of certain terrorist elements in the Kurdish population. I know that there is still a Kurdish population in Armenia. There is Kurdish radio broadcasts that are transmitted from Armenia to Turkey, Iran and Iraq. At least there was until 1997 when an uncle of my went to Armenia. You seem to think I am some sheltered American who has no clue of what is going on. Im not, I know more than you think.
Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
Dear Berj
Now I have some insight as to why there are so many Hayastanstsi in gangs out here in California, they were in gangs over there in Armenia! Also I am not saying that Armenia is harboring PKK, but many Armenians I have spoke to , and some of the responses on this site seem to show a sympathy for Kurds. You yourself made some comment to Ani about the Turks doing the same to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians. First of all there is no comparison. THe Turkish government had a policy of genocide of the Armenian race. It was official and in writing. This doesn't even come close to modern Turkey's treatment of certain terrorist elements in the Kurdish population. I know that there is still a Kurdish population in Armenia. There is Kurdish radio broadcasts that are transmitted from Armenia to Turkey, Iran and Iraq. At least there was until 1997 when an uncle of my went to Armenia. You seem to think I am some sheltered American who has no clue of what is going on. Im not, I know more than you think.
Yes Farsi in 1991 Armenia was like the Sicilly at the beginning of the century. But now it is almost done with the gangs and I think you know the reason why they existed-the formation of initial capital at the first stage of open market development (Adam Smith, lots of others, even Marks).
About the Kurdish radio: Do you think we gonna reject the freadom of speach here?
How it comes that:
1. Kurds, Irish, Basks are terrorists, while Turkey, England and Spain are to be teritorrially integrited coutries.
2. Albanians, Chechens, Cipriot Turks are freedom fighters to be given independance.
Regards
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Posted 30 May 2000 - 04:15 AM
Of course it doesn't come to that!
And by the way, you better try to be real Armenians.
Our history taught us a whole bunch of lessons about trust, didn't it????
So be wise, OK?
We've got to trust as less people as we can!
Be clever, we have to think about our nations profit!
If we can use others, like Kurds to make our nation's goals come true.THEN LET IT BE!!!
And by the way, you better try to be real Armenians.
Our history taught us a whole bunch of lessons about trust, didn't it????
So be wise, OK?
We've got to trust as less people as we can!
Be clever, we have to think about our nations profit!
If we can use others, like Kurds to make our nation's goals come true.THEN LET IT BE!!!
#15
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Posted 30 May 2000 - 07:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ararat:
Some of us just think like "the enemies of our enemy are our friends". In this case I think it's wrong. To be sure you can check the map of Kurdistan. You'll be surprised finding Yerevan there.
Originally posted by Ararat:
Some of us just think like "the enemies of our enemy are our friends". In this case I think it's wrong. To be sure you can check the map of Kurdistan. You'll be surprised finding Yerevan there.
Yes I know bro, I know yerevan is there. But please be realistic- do you seriously believe it will ever happen? cuz if u do, then we should stop right here right now. You guys dont see the whole picture from every point of view. Its not gonna happen, kurds dont have one tank, one regional army corps can take those nomads down. But kurds are easier than that- give em a desert part of western turkey and they'll shut up.
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Posted 30 May 2000 - 07:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
First of all Berj you are not even addressing the topic here: Is an alliance with the Kurds wise? I say forgive, but never forget, and also reparations must be paid by the perpetrators. I don't know if your comment about sipping whiskey at a bar was directed at me, but I don't drink! SO avoid the cheap shots. I could make cheap shots at your poor English writing skills but I don't! It seems that Armenians forgive selectively as it suits their purpose. There is so much outcry in the Armenian community about Turkey's treatment of the Kurds, but where were the Kurds during the Holocaust? Well Ill tell you where, burning Armenian villages and lynching, raping and pillaging! The Kurds will knife you in the back while all the while you are on guard against the Turk. They have no sympathy for anyone but themselves. Many of the Kurdish leaders of Iraq have betrayed the U.S. after all they have done for them. They are noted for turncoating! By the way Ararat is right, the Kurds claim the exact same territory as Armenians do. Do you think they are going to share nicely? Ha Ha! Watch out Armenians you are so busy hating the Boogie man Turk that your real enemies will pounce on you. It is ridiculous that Armenia harbor Kurdish groups and supports Kurdish culture, while having ethnically cleansed the republic of Azeris. Know your enemy!
Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
First of all Berj you are not even addressing the topic here: Is an alliance with the Kurds wise? I say forgive, but never forget, and also reparations must be paid by the perpetrators. I don't know if your comment about sipping whiskey at a bar was directed at me, but I don't drink! SO avoid the cheap shots. I could make cheap shots at your poor English writing skills but I don't! It seems that Armenians forgive selectively as it suits their purpose. There is so much outcry in the Armenian community about Turkey's treatment of the Kurds, but where were the Kurds during the Holocaust? Well Ill tell you where, burning Armenian villages and lynching, raping and pillaging! The Kurds will knife you in the back while all the while you are on guard against the Turk. They have no sympathy for anyone but themselves. Many of the Kurdish leaders of Iraq have betrayed the U.S. after all they have done for them. They are noted for turncoating! By the way Ararat is right, the Kurds claim the exact same territory as Armenians do. Do you think they are going to share nicely? Ha Ha! Watch out Armenians you are so busy hating the Boogie man Turk that your real enemies will pounce on you. It is ridiculous that Armenia harbor Kurdish groups and supports Kurdish culture, while having ethnically cleansed the republic of Azeris. Know your enemy!
ooooof Steve ok i'll respond to your topic so calm down No i dont think the kurds are up to par with us to even be forging alliances with them. We shouldnt be dealing with a band of hoodlums. If Armenia is seen bargaining with kurds, the world will laugh.
Who are the kurds that we should be dealing with them? An alliance with street thugs? lol
nonsense! We are 5000 years old, we dont deal with nomads. We are a great nation, we deal with other great civilizations like the Greeks and Russians, they are our good friends ok? just trust me bro
#17
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Posted 30 May 2000 - 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by anit@hotmail.com:
I totaly agree with you Farsisteve. My grandmother also told me some stories about Kurds. How they stole their money, how they raped some armenian women,etc. And she also said when you turn back, Kurd can kill behind you. I grown up hearing how those people are not reliable. I don't trust them.
On the other hand, I think every armenian has to learn their history very well. Instead of focusing how much you hate Turks, or others, you have to focus on how you can learn your history correctly.
Bravo Farsisteve, it looks you know our history. At least somebody knows.
God bless you.
Originally posted by anit@hotmail.com:
I totaly agree with you Farsisteve. My grandmother also told me some stories about Kurds. How they stole their money, how they raped some armenian women,etc. And she also said when you turn back, Kurd can kill behind you. I grown up hearing how those people are not reliable. I don't trust them.
On the other hand, I think every armenian has to learn their history very well. Instead of focusing how much you hate Turks, or others, you have to focus on how you can learn your history correctly.
Bravo Farsisteve, it looks you know our history. At least somebody knows.
God bless you.
oh come on, lolll you cant be serious......
the material written here looks like a child's bablings
Ani, are you listening? I graduated from an Armenian school, If anything, I know my Armenian history ok?, not some half armenian who meddles in everything. This forum is not a discussion but is a back and forth yapping of nonsense and bull.....i guess thats all you have in you, but im not saying anything personal. I just wanna say this, farsisteve, if you weren't blind, if you went back and read all that you wrote, we'll see who has more low down, dogmatic, malicious, hideous remarks in their writings. What is this talk of fascism, rogue state, fascist fanatics "crucifying" you with their right wing conspiracy lollll, you are almost funny. Seriously if u think Armenia is a fascist rogue state, you're lost bro. And whats this talk about fascism from a guy born in the desert? I was born in eastern europe so i know what fascism was, please dont use this term left and right against fellow Armenians!? come on...........
#18
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Posted 30 May 2000 - 01:29 PM
Arman, it is not good to humiliate and to hurt people since they are half armenian.
If you do this, you can also lose other armenian people's sympathy. Because there are a lot of half armenian (You said this word but I didn't like it).
And If you do this, How come they can trust you or they can feel they are belong to armenian community. If you discriminate these armenians because their's mothers or fathers got married with another country's people, then who is going to support these people or who is going to say 'these people are mine people'?
I cannot accept your idea and I think it is a very dangerous for armenian people. We have to support each other, although we may think different or we may dislike each other's ideas. But we have to listen each other not saying any bad words.
God bless you.
If you do this, you can also lose other armenian people's sympathy. Because there are a lot of half armenian (You said this word but I didn't like it).
And If you do this, How come they can trust you or they can feel they are belong to armenian community. If you discriminate these armenians because their's mothers or fathers got married with another country's people, then who is going to support these people or who is going to say 'these people are mine people'?
I cannot accept your idea and I think it is a very dangerous for armenian people. We have to support each other, although we may think different or we may dislike each other's ideas. But we have to listen each other not saying any bad words.
God bless you.
#19
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Posted 30 May 2000 - 04:10 PM
Ayo Arman yes ges hayem yev shaat urakhem vor ges hayem! Being half Armenian allows me to occasionally look at things objectively. Also for your information I was born in Tehran which is hardly a desert, if you knew your geography. Now you must take cheap shots at where I was born. What's next? My dad was born in Tennessee, so he's a hillbilly? He has 1/8 Native Indian blood, so he is also an "injun" There I brought out all the insults to the table. If people like you and Berj and Jan Fedayi could only disagree politely without taking personal shots, maybe I would avoid using "fascist." And you keep calling me "bro" so far I feel no fraternal feelings from you, anyway remember I am a mongrel half Armenian!
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