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Armenians And Their Opinions


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#41 kakachik77

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 09:50 PM

Council of Europe website - Armenia member

http://www.coe.int/T...tes/default.asp

Lusine Tovmasyan
Vice-Miss Europe 2005, Miss Armenia 2003
http://www.armtv.com.../eng/?folder=43

Hosteling International website with the map and other travel websites
http://www.hostelwor...ontinent.Europe

http://www.europeonr...com/armenia.htm
http://www.bootsnall...hostels/europe/
http://www.partyguid...pe/Armenia.html

website of Canadian Government
http://www.dfait-mae.../country-en.asp

Finally, UEFA website - European football federation
http://www.uefa.com/...7419/index.html

IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO WHERE WE ARE HEADED!

Edited by kakachik77, 22 September 2005 - 09:58 PM.


#42 shaunt

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 11:23 PM

QUOTE (kakachik77 @ Sep 22 2005, 09:50 PM)
IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO WHERE WE ARE HEADED!


EXACTLY!!!!! Well said Kakachik.

#43 gamavor

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 12:25 AM

QUOTE (Sip @ Sep 22 2005, 11:26 PM)
The question is not whether Armenians are European or part of Europe or not, but whether Europeans are Armenian or part of Armenia or not.


I wholeheartedly agree! Armenians are the most super Europeans!

Few simple facts for the record. Some people are anoyed by the fact that Armenia is not geographically in Europe and still Armenians claim to be Europeans.
Well, that has to do with us being Aryans - not only lingvistically but by ethnicity. Most cultures in the modern world - Europe, Middle East, Americas (North, Latin and Central) are by-product of massive nomadic migrations. The only nations that have never (despite all atempts) fully abandoned their ancestral homelands are Persians, Armenians and Greeks. Those cultures were capable to withstand against all odds foreign domination and nomadic invasions. Plus, we are strong acid. smile.gif Despite all intermixing with neighbours today 96% of the population of Armenia claims Armenian origin.

Our ancient culture, our pagan pantheon and beliefs were the cornerstone of most of later day European pagan beliefs. Our Christian heritage, our will for freedom and independance, and later our quest for equality and justice signified by our political parties are direct label and patent of European ideals.

Our arts, aptitude for business and inovative thinking are the most lively evidence for what we are. That said, I say:The question is not whether Armenians are European or part of Europe or not, but whether Europeans are Armenian or part of Armenia or not. tongue.gif

#44 TigranG

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 01:28 AM

Religion has nothing to do with ethnicity, Christianity is as middle eastern as Islam, Jesus was a middle eastern man not European...
Just because Armenians were at one point Aryans (thousands of yrs ago) they have heavely intermixed with non-Aryans, same thing goes for Persian people, by the way label such as middle eastern simply means that your country is in the west asian region of the world, Pakistani, Afghani, and north Indian (Punjabi) people also claim to be Aryan, but there are no more pure aryan people in the west asian region, everyone is too mixed...

So that statement is invalid...

PS. Just because you found some websites that list Hayastan as a European country, doesn'tt mean anything, its not geographically correct, its an Armenian wish and nothing more, because geography cannot be changed, west Asia will never be Europe, so consult with a professional geogrophist and he will tell you that its impossible for Hayastan to be in Europe since European border is across the huge caucasian mountain north of Georgia.

And as for the silly statement that can only be said by the funny armenians is "Whether the Europeans are armenian... LOL that is the most ignorant statement I've ever heard, you ignore the anthropological facts!... READ ANTHROPOLOGY and you will find that the first migration of the proto-europeans went directly to western europe from north africa through what is now morroco...

SORRY, the closest armenian people will be to white/european,is the small % of their Aryan ancestors which swims in a pool of other ancestors such as Urartian and semitic ones that mixed with them...

Edited by TigranG, 26 September 2005 - 01:35 AM.


#45 hytga

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 03:05 PM

QUOTE
And as for the silly statement that can only be said by the funny armenians is "Whether the Europeans are armenian... LOL that is the most ignorant statement I've ever heard, you ignore the anthropological facts!... READ ANTHROPOLOGY and you will find that the first migration of the proto-europeans went directly to western europe from north africa through what is now morroco...

lol.gif sleep1.gif

Edited by hytga, 26 September 2005 - 03:11 PM.


#46 Vanetsi

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 05:19 PM

QUOTE
Just because Armenians were at one point Aryans (thousands of yrs ago) they have heavely intermixed with non-Aryans


Thank you for clarifying your lack of knowledge of anthropology by making it evident of what your idea of Aryan is--- you believe "Aryan" means blonde-hair, blue eyes. I'll let you in on something--- this notion is what is called "Hitler's wet dream." Get your facts straight.

#47 TigranG

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 07:55 PM

Vanetsi,
Point out where in my statement I mentioned that Aryans were blond-haired, blue-eyed people... Are you blind?
I know damn well that they were not just of that description... They had blond,red, and brown hair, including brown,blue,grey, and green eyes...
Dont assume next time what people mean...
When you assume, you make an ASS out of you and me, but in this case only you!
You must be very good at writing fiction... You must teach us all how to take a fly and turn it into an elephant...

#48 Harut

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 08:11 PM

QUOTE (TigranG @ Sep 26 2005, 12:28 AM)
Just because Armenians were at one point Aryans (thousands of yrs ago) they have heavely intermixed with non-Aryans, same thing goes for Persian people, by the way label such as middle eastern simply means that your country is in the west asian region of the world, Pakistani, Afghani, and north Indian (Punjabi) people also claim to be Aryan, but there are no more pure aryan people in the west asian region, everyone is too mixed...


you are too silly...

#49 vava

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 09:19 PM

Let's stop with the personal insults folks.

#50 shaunt

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 10:15 PM

QUOTE (vava @ Sep 26 2005, 09:19 PM)
Let's stop with the personal insults folks.


To quote Bernie Mac, "Don't get mad at me; I'm just saying what you can't say. You feel the same god damn way."

biggrin.gif .

Surely he deserves a warning (at the least) for claiming that the Proto Indo-Europeans orignated from North Africa? tongue.gif

#51 Armat

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 10:40 PM

Tigran G whatever happens tgas don't leave this forum.We need people like you-seriously.You got passion and chrisma now start saying little just a touch less and listen more.Remember smart one knows how llittle he really knows. biggrin.gifI am little drunk and to be honest I love all honest Armenians regardless what their opinon is. To be frank bro who really cares what we are geographically.What's important how you feel about being Armenian.

Edited by Armat, 26 September 2005 - 10:45 PM.


#52 gamavor

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 12:26 AM

QUOTE
they have heavely intermixed with non-Aryans,


Who told you this? Uncle Mehmet, or chicho Pesho?

QUOTE
SORRY, the closest armenian people will be to white/european,is the small % of their Aryan ancestors which swims in a pool of other ancestors such as Urartian and semitic ones that mixed with them...


That is too amateurish to answer, but as far as we continue to talk about it let it be clear that there were no evidence of Semitic people in Anatolia and Southern Caucasus until the forceful migration of few thousand Jews from Judea by Tigran the Great. NONE! As far as assimilation goes...yes they were assimilated though not fully. The Jews presently living in Caucasus (unlike Jews from the Balkans) are not Semitic (Sephardim) but direct descendants of the Khazars who were close kin of yours ethnically.

Urartians were not Semitic people. They were not Indo - European either. Just like Assyrians and Phoenicians.

#53 karakash

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 11:50 AM

My friends from college used to argue with me about this issue all the time. They claimed I was Asian like some of them who were Chinese or Korean. I claimed I was white, I guess like a European.

For what it's worth, certain courts in the US have held that Armenians are Caucasian/white.

Doesn't it make sense. Armenia is in the Caucasas, Armenians are Caucasian...

#54 phantom22

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 12:07 PM

At the end of the AGBU video about Stalin called "Enemy of the People," is a display of the faces of hundreds of Armenians. You would be surprised, while seeing so many faces in close succession, how many of these faces are the faces of East Asians.

#55 mamigon

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 12:49 PM

What an absurd and tedious argument this is. It brings out the pseudo-scholar in everybody. Shall we all submit a blood sample and be done with it? Race, ethnicity, all of these things are constructed by people who think they have some inherent meaning. It's all mythology -- which doesn't mean it means nothing, just that it only means what you make it mean.

QUOTE (gamavor @ Sep 27 2005, 12:26 AM)
Who told you this? Uncle Mehmet, or chicho Pesho?
That is too amateurish to answer, but as far as we continue to talk about it let it be clear that there were no evidence of Semitic people in Anatolia and Southern Caucasus until the forceful migration of few thousand Jews from Judea by Tigran the Great. NONE! As far as assimilation goes...yes they were assimilated though not fully. The Jews presently living in Caucasus (unlike Jews from the Balkans) are not Semitic (Sephardim) but direct descendants of the Khazars who were close kin of yours ethnically.

Urartians were not Semitic people. They were not Indo - European either. Just like Assyrians and Phoenicians.


#56 phantom22

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 02:43 PM

Technology has advanced to the level where these kinds of discussions will be moot. Anyone can go, and for a small fee, discover exactly where his/her ancestors originated. Armenia is not some isolated island near the North Pole, it is on the major routes of antiquity.

#57 TigranG

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 03:20 PM

Listen, technology doesn't tell the whole history of the people, because for example if you have an african ancestor in your family but after him your family tree continued to mate with non-african people over time genetics will show very few african markers, thus the anthropologists decline to acknowledge them, which to me doesnt make sense... As for the Proto-Europeans being from Africa, read the modern "out of Africa theory". I dont know who is right and who is wrong because genes and origin are very difficult and almost unsolvable...As far as the DNA tests go, north african arabs/jews, saudi arabs, and Indian people are considered white/caucasian yet they have a lot of African and no- white genes, but according to the white anthropologists that doesn't matter they still label them as white even if they look non white... So as long as the Europeans (white) people keep making the rules, they will advance to attribute as many civilizations to their own race to be more superior... Mexicans are considured to be a white race according to anthropologists & American law makers (INS), yet they are a mixture of native american indians and spaniards... So tell me where is the justice in this white washed world... Plus the label caucasian is just a theory no one can prove that white people are from the caucus region, even the anthropology professors teach that... Mongoloid race is just a theory as well who knows maybe Chinese existed before the mongols, and the name mongolia, but yet they label them as mongoloid race... To be honest there is only ONE RACE, the human race... I believe there is not enough evidence to divide people into theoretical races... But if there is such a thing as race,then middle east is a mixture of races, and thus cannot be considered as just one, same goes for racially mixed Mexico, Australlia, India, Afghanistan, Central Asia, North Africa, and South Eastern Asia... The world is not BLACK and WHITE, its full of grey areas... Person who is half white half black cannot be concluded to be only white or only black... I've seen so many armenians with mongol, semitic, european, indian features... How can you say that Armenians are a pure race... The pure races are on the extreme opposites of levels with profound phenotypes... Such as Chinese look pure and most likely are pure, north europeans look pure, deep inside africa people look pure... But please dont include parts of the world such as I mentioned and say that they are mono-racial, thats BS...

By the way Armat, funny pinguine pic...
And yes Gamavor they are close to my kin, because besides being part armenian I am also part semitic and turko-mongolian, and I am damn proud of both of those ancestry lines as well...

Edited by TigranG, 27 September 2005 - 03:30 PM.


#58 Vanetsi

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 09:24 PM

QUOTE
they still label them as white even if they look non white


Define what you mean by "to look white."
Also, expand on your idea of "pure."

By the way, I'll teach you how to take a fly and turn it into an elephant right after I teach you how to spell.

Edited by Vanetsi, 27 September 2005 - 09:33 PM.


#59 TigranG

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 11:26 PM

White to me means white skin,skinny pointy nose,thin lips, light eyes (light brown,blue,green), light hair (brown,blond,red), I dont believe that jet curly black hair (such as a fro = african like hair), dark brown almost black eyes, wide nose, and thick lips are of white origin, NO WAY... Spainiards, greeks, and Italians have some of those features only because the Phoenicians who where semitic in their origin, colonized the Mediterranean coasts... In case you dont know the semitic origin, their language is known as Afro-Asiatic, and originated in Africa, modern day ethiopia, linguistic scientists found over one hundred semitic languages that are native to Africa and that never existed in the middle east...
I was watching the history of the Greeks on the History Channel, and they were showing a ancient painting depicting a dark skin proto-Greek man with black curly hair and dark eyes, hairy too, sitting on the rock with a white skin woman whose hair was blondish and blue eyed, they were explaining how the original proto-greeks had very dark skin and were very middle eastern in appearance, in fact the greek word to "chat with some one" is "BABLE", which derives from the word Babylone... Pretty interesting, I thought... And I have done some reading on Greek,Italian, Spanish, and even French DNA, which showed a good amount of African (black) genetical markers, thus explaining their darker look... Even the ancient Greek cave pictures depicted people of different skin colors, white, brown, and black, mingling with each other and being part of the same society... Plus the DNA researchers explained that the African genes in Greek people are traced to Ethiopians... You dont have to believe this, I am not writing this for a debate, I am simply recounting what I have read and seen on the history channel...

Dear Va-nazi
When a person types his thoughts very fast he doesn't notice every little detail... Knowing 3 different languages (russian,english, and chinese) can do that to a person... ooops mispelled your name, sorry!

Edited by TigranG, 27 September 2005 - 11:41 PM.


#60 Armat

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 12:13 AM

I was watching some news about Lebanon and the locals looked very Armenian.I think most Lebanese don't consider themselves Arabs.I don't know why it is important to put a box around who we are as Armenians.




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