157 replies to this topic

[Harut]

to hagarag

if you say one more time that Tigran The Great II was jew, i'd ask you to send me some of those books that state that.

yes, i agree that the latter Tigrans (IV...) could have been jews (because they were not from Artashesian Dinasty, but were put up by Romans) but to say that Tigran the Great II was jew (not his father, not his grand-father, not Artashes I himself, etc....) is just radicolous.

[Harut]

and about homosexuality

as open-minded as i am (or at least think i'm) i still don't accept homo(/bi)sexuality to be a healthy way of life.
i don't mind having a homo next-door neighbour, but to justify and support them is just absurd to me.

i see those kinds of people, and just laugh at them, as how waird of life they had to become such. and no i don't believe that some are born with homo/bisexual orientations.

to justify them by saying that it was common at some time in the past (which i know it was, esp in Greece) is just as absurd. and it's funny to see that some "liberal/progressive" people do that.

and to be clear, no, i don't base my dislike of homosexuality on Christianity, as i don't consider myself to be religious (i haven't been in church, lit a candle, said a prayer, etc for ages).

oh, btw, how come almost all (or at least the ones i encountered (not sexualy ) or heard about) have having sex as the first priority of their life? how healthy society can this kind of people make up...

[Nvard]

Richard jan,
Don't even think about Tigran Medz being a jew.First of all he wasn't.He was the nephew of Artavazd I (his brother's son).His grandpa was Artashes I.Are you people trying to say that they were Jews too? His mother and his wife were Parthians(King Mithridat's sister and daughter),No doubt.
Even if he was Chinese.Who cares?The king is has only the nationality of his country.Most Europian kings did not and do not have their country's nationality.The Russian kings Romanov dynasty was almost pure German.So?

[khodja]

Vahe G.,

You have OBVIOUSLY not read my posts. To be a "sinner" you have to commit sins. The only sex that I have had in the past 20 years was with my ex-wife during a marriage and once or twice with a girlfriend that I had been dating for an extended period of time. Are you stating that my bi-sexual orientation without homosexual acts taking place makes me a sinner?

As for my other comments, they have come from years of reading in the areas of history, church history, genetics and geography. You have been fed the standard historical line developed during the 19th century for Armenian nation-building purposes. Much of this is myth.

[damien]

Harut,
To say that being gay is a choice that some sickos make in life is like saying that you choose to have brown eyes (or whatever colour they are).
Why on earth would anyone choose to be gay or bisexual when they have to put up with the bigotry so proudly displayed by people as we see in this forum?
I suppose ducks choose to be ducks during shooting season too?
Clear up your logic. It clearly is not working. Or, sorry, but maybe it's just an unfortunate "condition that can not be cured these days" (whichever poor old creature from the dark ages came up with that line!).
Don't worry darlin', Jesus still loves you. I'll pray for your misguided soul.
Love,
Damien.

[THOTH]

Harut - may I ask you who it is who is passing judgement here? We are only opposing that he is saying these bad things about a fellow human who is doing nothing to hurt anyone else.

Additionally, we are not only calling for acceptance of divesity - but recognition of human rights. Tigrannes is opposing this. Sure he can talk all he wants - and we would not actually do anything (physically) to him. But we would oppose any attempt by those like him to discriminate or act violently. This goes for those who act such toward women, minorities or anyone. If we lived in this nation in the 1860's or prior - we would actively be fighting against the practice of slabvery - how does this make us in the wrong? Just as now - we are speaking out against ignorant and wrong attitudes and practices. What difference does it really make if Damien likes it in the rear (or whatever) once in a while...or igf Hagarag fantasises about Tigrannes young muscular body (LOL - had to put that one in!) - well it doesn't mean anything. These are individual choices. Everyone should have the right to make them as long as (for instance) Hagarag doesnt actually touch or verbally harass pour defensless little Tigrannes...

[-=VAHE=-]

hey Damien what the hell are you talking about. First of all lets take gangmembers for example. Are they born Gangmembers also? Cmoon why would they join a gang then to be shot at or end up in jail. You know why because that lifestyle is apealing to them just as yours is to you. No noone is born that way. You moron what God are you preying to. It sure isnt the God we Christians believe in for you cant be Gay and be Christian. Thats the most ridiculous thing Ive heard. Hagarag you idiot what Historical line what are you talking about. where do you get these books from that noone has ever read before. Do you write them yourself? Hagarag just ask your self this Question. How am I contributing to the Armenian Cause and the Armenian people. personally I think your life was so scrwed up from the beggining that you have no other choice to not be. You should be talking a to a shrink about this stuff and these molestations that happened to you. Remember just ask yourself that question and for about two hours sit and think and just maybe something might pop up in your head then you can come back write some lies for the absence of the answer of that question.

yete menk srants thekhenere chudenenk. ove gudeni

[ September 15, 2002, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Vahe G. ]

[khodja]

Vahe, I suggest that you read the apocrypha and the Gnostic Christian texts that were unearthed in Egypt. They show that Jesus had a wife. The true heir to the British throne (not the German pretenders who now hold it, nor the German/British/Armenian pretender who will soon take it), recently wrote a geneological text showing that much of European royalty are direct descendants of Jesus. The Gnostic texts allude that the 12 disciples were an odd bunch, being jealous of Jesus affection for his wife. That smacks of homosexuality/bi-sexuality. Obviously the paedophile priests of the Catholic church consider themselves Christian. I can assure you that this orientation does not stop at the parish priest level but permeates the hierarchy.

As for the Tigran information in was in a book written by Bernard Lewis BEFORE he turned on the Armenians, when he was our ally in his earlier days. What did Armenians say or do to him that turned him into one of our most powerful enemies?

[-=VAHE=-]

Listen buddy your too gullable to BS. If you want truth read the bible. Many people can do amazing things and suddenly unearth this and that. Listen to me Bernard Lewis wasnt our ally and suddenly now hes our enemy. He was our enemy and nothing changed. If he was our ally why would he insult us with calling one of our leaders jews. You know why because he is trying show people that Armenians were led by Jews. You see how smart jews are that they have you campaigning for them in life just take a step back and think what your doing and dont forget to ask yourself that question. Also from what it looks like your saying homosexuality is pretty much ok now ,which is wrong. You know hagarag I think you beleieve all these lies because you have no other form of hope and all this Revisionist History apeals to you a lot.

[khodja]

Keep laughing Mr. Traditional Armenian. WE will crush you. I have alot of hope. I am extremely healthy and young for my age that even women in their early 20's flirt with me regularly. The moral midget who sits it the White House will not be re-elected in 2004. His cohorts will lose the Congress this year as the American public now KNOWS that his buddies, "Kenny Boy." and other are all a bunch of corporate crooks. I see right through him that the Iraqi initiative is a political ploy for the Republicans. This initiative could have been commenced months ago, but was delayed solely for political purposes. If we can not moderate the views of the Armenian clergy and the Armenian power structure we will sit idly by and let the Armenians destroy themselves. They are doing a good job of it in the ROA. The White Genocide is alive and well thanks to Armenians like you Vahe. WE will undermine the likes of you, because this is the ONLY way that Armenia and Armenians will survive. Either you become part of the mores of Western Europe or our nation will die. Put aside your detrimental traditional mores and join the West.

[-=VAHE=-]

What The Hell are You Talking about. Have you gone crazy or something. Are you the most stupid person in the world. When was the White house mentioned or your looks or the power structure of the Armenian Clergy. Are You Crazy we were talking about a total different Subject you idiot. Since you see you are wrong ,like a moron you write something not even related to the topic to keep your self from being made an idiot out of. Your the pure example of a Fascist. Youll make ridiculous statements and you repeat and repeat them until people listen to some stupid moronic propaganda. OH MY GOD You have freaking problems im not wrtiting anymore because your a plain Idiot and everytime you talk I have to call you out on how stupid you are. Call me Mr. Traditional Armenian. Theres nothing wrong with being one. Your definiton of a Traditional is anyone who disagrees with you. Your like a damn Nazi just dont talk if you see there is no more room to Argue and make this any longer then it should be.

Sents anasun kyankume chem thesel. Es koratsa oo khupnuvats

[TigrannesIII]

1)Harut is exactly right. They can say whatever they want, but because I'm conservative, I can't say whatever I want.

2)THOTH, you are hypocritical in that regard. Very. I'm not allowed to dislike gyotner because of their choice, but you can hate communists because of their lifestyle??

3)Don't compare the 1860's to present-day homos. Blacks are born with black skin. Homos are born normal, but chose their weird lifestyle for a reason. Black people never invited harrasment, but gays do. Especially with those sick parades.

4)Hagarag, you are already victim of the white genocide. Vahe is the type who undermines it. Your liberal views are the type that will unwravel us and finish us off. Vahe's type (and mine)have been around for a very very long time. If you asked Antranik ***** his thoughts on subjects, I guarantee you he would almost always side with Vahe and against you (if he didn't just shoot you in the head first). Also, Hagarag, anyone can write a story about Jesus. And I also doubt anyone has done that much extensive research on Armenian genetic lines.

[Sip]

Dear Vahe ... I will again try to put this as a "friendly reminder" It is perfectly fine if you dislike someone or you don't agree with their opinions. However, it is completely WRONG to turn things into personal attack and name calling. Please refrain from childish name calling and please restrain your arguments to the intellectual level. That is the ONLY way to "win" in my opinion (and I think most would agree) ... however, the forum does have rules which strictly forbid such actions.

There certainly is NOTHING wrong with being "traditional" ... whatever that means !!! There is also nothing wrong if you want to make it your mission to bring down Hagarag. But again, please do it by using sound arguments, coherent well-thought-out sentences, and facts/opinions as opposed to "You are DUMB", "You are Moron", "You are this" ... "You are that" and therefore you are wrong types of posts ... and generally those types of posts usually tend to undermine your position as opposed to your oponents (this last part is purely my own opinion).

[ September 15, 2002, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: Sip ]

[Sip]

Going back to topic, here is my problem with homosexuality ...

But first, let me say that I am not sure if homoness is genetic or not. However, I am fairly certain that in many cases, there are many biological and/or chemical factors that contribute to it. From very early ages it is sometimes completely obvious that a little kid will most certainly have homosexual tendencies when it grows up (from VERY early ages) ...

So, having said that ... what goes on between a man and man; a man and a donkey; a midget, a man, and a donkey; a man, another man, a donkey, some baloons, and a sheep ... etc (you get the point) is none of my business. That is perfectly fine as long as I don't get involved in it somehow (against my will).

Now, I think you see the problem. Where do you draw the line? It is obvious that pedophillia is completely out ... I don't think anyone would argue. But where do you draw the line between "pure beautiful LOVE" and perversion ?

Gay homosexuals seem to say that their love is pure love as well ... just like what is between a man and a woman. I say, if that is true, then the line can easily be extended to cover 3 men and a midget, 4 midgets 2 clowns, and maybe a donkey, etc etc.

DO what you want! I don't care ... just don't try to classify it as a "family" and don't try to get my approval for it all the time. I couldn't care less if you love another man or your german sheppard. But don't tell me you qualify as a "family" and that your actions constitute "marriage". In my book, it does not.

[ September 15, 2002, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Sip ]

[THOTH]

No I'm not - not at all. I'm not telling you who to like and why - etc. I'm just pointing out that your views regarding what people do in their private lives are irrelevant and somewhat non-realisitc IMO. And I am admoshing you not to call them names ot be nasty etc - whats wrong with that. And I don't hate communists - where have I said that. I do believe however that the system espoused by Communisim is at its heart inhuman and I despise the totalitarian ends justify the means methods of those leaders/governments that have adopted sytems that they call Communism. And these folks kill people - lots of them - and oppress them. Tell me what any gay person or group has done to harm you - really now...

Actually those parades are a riot. I used to live in Hollywood and one of the most entertaining places to be on Holloween was down on Santa Monica watching the gays parade around - such a hoot! And you say that Homos are born normal - I agree - and except for some real abberrent ones (much as hetero aberrent folks) they remain pretty normal all their lives. If they are attracted to the same sex because of some genetic disposition (and perhaps there is something to this - but I don't think its entirely deterministic) or because of learned(?) chioice - I say what does it matter. If I like dogs do I get upset that you are a cat lover - are we each following some pre-determined genetic pattern - or is there a choice. Frankly i don't see where any of it matters. It all comes down to respect for other people and realizing that what is right for you isn't necessarily right for others. This is true with anything humans do (except where the actions of one impact others). TOLERANCE - I know its a big word - but its really quite a simple concept. Lack of tolerance is responsible for a great many wars, killings, genocides, etc. I don't think we can go wrong with a bit more tolerance in the world. One day you will appreciate it when others so tolerance towards you. Think about it sometime.

[Accelerated]

Contrary to your belief, at its heart the Communist system is a much better system than capitalism, its just that human nature will never allow Communism to exist as Marx envisioned it.

[-=VAHE=-]

Sip jan listen to me enger when you talk with a 7 year old child do you talk to him, find out his opinion and try to find from which resourse he is using. No you dont and the same would go for Hagarag I can give him Damien and whatever homo confused etc. person facts about whatever I say just like you could to a 7 year old but it is not needed. Yes Hagarag is not 7 years old but from what it seems like the state of his mind is at that level. Sip jan no offence axper but i can care less of how you think is winnning any arguement because theyre sure isnt only one way if you read carefully what I say its not all name calling tsaveth thanem. Let me say something else my friend .There are over 800 members to this forum that dont speak at all. I Have been Reading this forum for a long long time. You guys straight out insulted Artur until he left and you Insult Tigranness and try to bring him down as you say. Im just here on behalf of a lot of people ( not all) who dont speak for their voice wouldnt be as intelectual as yours. They read this forum daily and a lot of us are tired of this Bs. You guys say your understanding of others but there are a few people who are the worst of them all. Just like Harut said about them not like communists but they demise Tigran for having an opinion of his own.

[Sip]

That's the only reason I am trying to prevent you being kicked out! I really see value in your posts which somehow get confused with the insults! Unlike Arthur, I see a smart, thinking individual behind your posts

As far as Tigrannes, I disagree with a lot of things he says and I also agree with him sometimes (like to some extent in this thread)... but at the end of the day, there still is respect I think and we are even playing football right now in some fantasy sports site.

[-=VAHE=-]

De ouraxem axper jan vore irar heth karox enk hamadzaynvenk. oo mersi vore hethevitsts nayumes buits lol I have been way too long for my health gidem.

[THOTH]

How can it be better if it is contray to human nature. How can an ideal be better then the actual if the ideal is never reachable. And i am not a proponent of capitalism as the do all and end all. Far from it. Its outlook is much to short term and self-centered (not concerned with the benefit of the whole...though an argument could be made...etc etc) and I feel that any belief suystem that does not hold our planet - our mother earth - at its absolute center - is fatally flawed in the long run. But anyway - communism truly sucks. Its like argueing that the Genocide never happened...its just a truism (at least for those who know the facts...)