as i see it (cont.) - Pt. II
Posted 25 February 2002 - 05:53 AM
Posted 25 February 2002 - 06:41 AM
Posted 25 February 2002 - 10:18 AM
Originally posted by highflyer:
To T.B.You have siad we feed from the crumbs of Aras intelectual table.I see you are still at the table.
To Ara please seve up the next course.
Consider me a consumer rights advocate . On the other hand, we get what we pay for. I somehow get the feeling that you are implying "If you don't like it, then get out of here". Same could be said to Mr. Baliozian. But I wouldn't say it. I'm trying to encourage him to be a better writer and a better thinker. I realize it is futile. So I hereby give up.
If you do enjoy his writings, by all means keep on gobbling them up. If he provides justification for your choices, and makes you feel comfortable, all the better. However, I have no interest in easy solutions and intellectual slumber.
Posted 25 February 2002 - 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Domino:
TB, you should lets Ara write whatever he want.
Do he answer you ? Why do you need to write ? Everyone is "habituated" of his writings right now, and many Armenians do need that slap in the face.
Who am I to "let" him write or not write? He needs no permission from me. Every now and then I critique what he writes, that is all.
Does he answer me? No. He has never addressed the inconsistencies and logical fallacies in his writings that I exposed earlier. Does that somehow make him immune to criticism?
I don't "need" to write. He doesn't "need" to write. You don't "need" to write. We "need" to eat, breathe, sleep, and go to the bathroom. The rest, we choose to do. What is your point?
It is true that Mr. Baliozian is part of the background noise, and largely ignored. I usually write when someone posts something to the effect of suggesting that what he writes has a profoundness of some sort.
It is also true that many chauvinist Armenians do need a slap on the face. However, they are exactly the audience he does not reach, because of their mutual loathing and hatred. What Mr. Baliozian offers is not "tough love", because he utterly lacks it. What he accomplishes is to provide self-justification and comfort to the assimilated/alienated, and a lot of misinformation to the gullible. That bothers me.
However, I do have a life, and very limited time and resources. You are probably corect that these are better invested elsewhere.
[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: Twilight Bark ]
Posted 25 February 2002 - 11:09 AM
What I mean by this is.
When Ara post he dosn't care what others will right, he do even not answer the critics. Your posts to him will not change anything concerning what he think.
And more then this, do Ara believe what he write ? This is the billion dollar question that we will never have answer to, and since he is an artist I wonder if himself know the answer to that question.
I take Ara writing as artistic sarcastic works, that I read when I have nothing other to do, and want to have some fun, only the fact that you answer him prove that OR, you are interested to what he write.
Now about the fact that the Armenians that need a slap on the face don't read him, then any further need for him to scream more...
Posted 25 February 2002 - 11:33 AM
T.B., critisizm as you know is the best inspiration source for the writer as well as for the philosopher.
Posted 26 February 2002 - 12:34 AM
Originally posted by sen_vahan:
Critics may be pretty different. Agayan and Raffi were always critisizing each other like enemies. Maybe it is not my business but in my opinion Twilight Bark is very intellectual critic.It is interesting for me to read Ara as well as T.B.'s ideas about Ara's thoughts.
T.B., critisizm as you know is the best inspiration source for the writer as well as for the philosopher.
Good comments - I second them...not sure where it leaves us however...
I think that TB's critique of ARA is valid - though perhaps overstated - IMO. (and its just that - my opinion)
I think that Ara has a great deal of very worthwhile things to say - things - it seems to me - that many Amrenians need to hear. (though sometimes he reminds me of my mother - shrilly stating much of the same over and over - and no matter how [sometimes]obvious and often oblivious to the receptivity of the audience). That the very Armenians (majority?) who need this sort of message mostly shut him out is understood - and this divide is unfourtunate - but understandable - much as Artur and I talk past each other when it comes to matters of religion. Perhaps Ara could state his message differently - be less strident or offensive...possibly - though then he would not be himself I think...and I think TB is correct that Ara perhaps is not the complete package - but nobody is perfect. I also understand TBs frustration that the Armenian community seems unable to produce decent leadership (in any realm)...but is at east part of the problem the Armenian community itself - patently unable/unwilling to follow good advice? I don't think we lack (very)intelligent people - we seem to prosper in the arts, sciences and in business....so just what is it (characteristically) that prevents (and has prevented) the emergence of leaders - politically, philosophically etc from/for the Armenian community? And is it now too late? are we too divided, too different from one another because of our diverse backgrounds in the Diaspora - perhaps having more in common with our "host" nations than with ourselves? Is this it 0or is it something different? (I really don't know)
Posted 26 February 2002 - 12:59 AM
That was his style of responding to ideas - not telling anything but just keeping thinking. Poeple however are different, some just analyze others in addition respond strongly. Everything is valuable.
"V spore rogdaetsya istina"
Posted 25 February 2002 - 09:19 PM
The poor want to be rich.
The rich want to be richer.
Those who are resigned to their status
resent those who aren't.
The crooks resent the honest
and the honest itch to expose the crooks.
We all have an angle, an agenda, or a score to settle.
Some have a fire in their belly,
others only the flicker of a candle
in the dungeons of their cold subconscious.
All of us share a conviction that we are ahead of the game,
we know better because we are better.
We say "There by the grace of God go I,"
and assume a holier-than-thou stance.
We justify our greed by saying
God helps those who help themselves,
and after asserting the existence of God
we proceed to do the devilís work.
We are told to love one another by preachers
who subscribe to different sets of dogmas
and view one another as infidels, heretics, and charlatans.
We drown in doubts but deal in certainties.
We search for something which we pretend to be in our grasp.
What is one to make of this pandemonium?
Don't ask me because I don't know.
But I know this:
To say we are smart and we know better
is to condemn ourselves to be unteachable.
Thatís because every transgression and crime
comes with its own inbuilt penalty.
To say we are better than Jews or Blacks
is to condemn ourselves to learn nothing
from the Jewish or Black experience.
The poor may want to be rich and the rich richer,
but the ignoramus appears to be satisfied with his own ignorance
which he calls wisdom.
Posted 26 February 2002 - 05:56 PM
Posted 26 February 2002 - 07:20 PM
Originally posted by highflyer:
To T.B. we all have things to say.Yours are as important as others comments.I sit and read ,agree with some and try to analize the rest.I feel we are intruding on Ara.I do like to read his words and have NO intention of attacking what he or you write.Tell me what board to go to so we might axchange ideas.
I love exchanging ideas anywhere, including in other peoples' threads'.
When we start a thread (and "as i see it" is one) it is implicitly an invitation for comments. Viewing a thread or topic as personal space is a recipe for disappointment in a public forum. Ara has the right to remain silent when confronted, and he also has the right to write a monologue. That does not make it inappropriate to comment on his posts. In any case, I don't intend to address his posts any longer unless there is some special reason.
I enjoyed our exchange of ideas on many other topics, and I hope that we continue doing so.
Posted 27 February 2002 - 10:14 AM
The fool is happy in his ignorance
and the wise is tormented by his wisdom.
The wise have more questions than answers,
more doubts than certainties.
By contrast, fools have no trouble in convincing themselves
and one another that they have all the answers.
Mankind has always been at the mercy of better organized fools.
Wars are declared by fools and fought by the ignorant.
There are no single-minded wise men
but many single-minded fools.
Call me a single-minded fool
who thinks he can reason with his fellow Armenians.
I have several friends who could have been far better writers than I,
but after being insulted a few times they saw the light
and gave up in disgust.
Every time I am (or my mother or grandmother is) insulted,
my resolve to persevere is renewed.
Call me a single-minded perverse fool.
To understand the enemy
it is necessary to be objective about ourselves.
In the eyes of those who have been brought up
on a steady diet of chauvinist crap,
objectivity is anathema because it may reveal the fact that
we are not as smart or as wise as we have assessed ourselves to be.
An Armenian fool will never agree with his Turkish counterpart.
On the day fools cease to represent us,
we may have a better chance to come to terms with our enemies.
Posted 27 February 2002 - 10:15 AM
Kurds are proud of being Kurds
Gypsies are proud of being Gypsies.
Turks are proud too.
The English brag about the fact that
"An Englishman cannot be a slave!"
(How does an Englishman view us?
Probably as a nation that allowed itself to be enslaved
by the Turks for 600 years;
and we retaliate by saying
at a time when the English lived like barbarians
we were enjoying a Golden Age!)
And we brag about the fact that
we were the first nation to accept Christianity
and the first nation to suffer a genocide in the 20th century.
As some of our own intellectuals have pointed out:
we may have a cause and effect here:
conversion to Christianity (cause)
and being massacred (effect).
Hegel tells us Christianity replaced the human master
(the king or feudal lord) with the divine master.
Marx said Christianity became the opium of the slaves of capital.
Napoleon – no Marxist he – agreed.
If it were not for Christianity, he once observed,
the poor (who outnumber the rich a thousand to one)
would butcher the rich.
"We are like sheep without a shepherd," our own Raffi said;
and "Where there is oppression
there is cowardice, ignorance, and sloth."
And even more to the point:
"Our clergymen preach patience to us
thus promoting subservience to the point of slavery."
I therefore suggest,
instead of celebrating the 1700th anniversary of our Christianity,
let’s go down on our knees,
sing Der Voghormia for the last time,
and rise as born again human beings:
"Because only the free man
is in a position to discover the benefits of freedom," (Raffi).
Posted 27 February 2002 - 10:16 AM
When I was young I was unteachable.
Hence my allergy to all whippersnappers and phony pundits.
There is an old Spanish saying (could be Brazilian or Bedouin):
"Women and horses: let someone else tame them."
And I say: "Horse’s asses: let a shrew tame them, and vice versa."
In the memoirs of an American writer (I forget his name)
I remember to have read (I will paraphrase):
"Never hesitate to look your accuser in the eye
and shake his hand even if he happens to be
the worst sonofabitch in the world."
And I remember my father (Ottoman background) saying:
"Next time a bully comes near you,
kick him in the balls as hard as you can.
Don't worry about permanent damages,
I will pay for them."
Speaking for myself:
I prefer the Chinese approach:
"Of the 36 (or is it 72?) ways, avoidance of confrontation is the best."
"The true source of wisdom," Socrates tells us,
"is not knowledge but moderation."
Posted 27 February 2002 - 09:27 PM
Take yourself seriously and provoke the ridicule of a thousand.
I don't look for enemies; they find me.
An Armenian who is about to lose an argument turns into a Turk.
A 17th-century American writer once observed that,
just because a man is not bought and sold
it doesn't follow that he is not a slave.
Likewise, just because we silence critics
it doesn't follow that we are not vulnerable to criticism.
When a chauvinist who recycle craps says:
"Criticism must be constructive!"
what he really means is:
"If recycling crap is good enough for me,
how dare you think otherwise?"
It was Kant who said that very often
ignorance is nothing but cowardice in the face of knowledge.
Something to remember and repeat:
Self-criticism is not unpatriotic. Silencing criticism is.
Posted 28 February 2002 - 10:13 PM
Always proceed from the assumption that
Armenians are morally and intellectual superior.
No need to say we are the Chosen People
but make it abundantly clear that it is such a self-evident truth
that it doesn't need to be stated.
When accused of racism point out the fact that
as victims of racism we can't be racists.
Every idea is open to contradiction.
Contradict even when it makes little or no sense.
The less sense you make the sooner your antagonist will quit.
A really smart person does not argue with a fool.
Do not hesitate to make a fool of yourself
or, for that matter, to go down into the gutter.
A fool in the gutter can be a formidable force
that can drive even the most knowledgeable antagonist
to despair and ultimately silence.
If you can't contradict the idea, insult the man.
The purpose of an argument is not to engage in dialogue
but to silence the enemy,
and whenever possible, to destroy him.
Dialogue is a non-Armenian concept
and anything that is non-Armenian must be considered anti-Armenian.
Blame all our problems on others,
beginning with the Turks, the Great Powers, the Soviets (KGB),
the Americans (CIA) and the Jews (Mossad).
Since these are secret agencies,
anything can be imputed to them without fear of contradiction.
On the subject of Armenian criminals:
attack the justice system because there is no such thing
as a perfect institution or law enforcement agency,
and everything that is human is fallible
and therefore vulnerable to criticism.
Posted 28 February 2002 - 10:14 PM
Where there is censorship there will be fear:
fear of knowledge;
fear of objective judgment;
fear of honesty;
fear of excellence and originality.
Where there is fear you will also find cowardice.
When I think of all those writers and thinkers who were silenced and the strident voices of fools who are everywhere in our media and discussion forums, I want to hand in my resignation as a member of the human race.
How different things would be if,
instead of speaking of a Golden Age buried in the past, we were to live as if it were in the near future.
Men speak as if they valued freedom above everything else but live as though nothing gives them more pleasure than to surrender it to sex, money, power, prestige, a closed system of thought, to the lies of priests and mullahsÖ.
It has been said that the sensitive person
is always at the mercy of the rude.
Something similar could be said of the wise
and the loud-mouth ignoramus.
Posted 01 March 2002 - 09:11 PM
Whenever I come across a vitriolic message
by one of our phony superpatriots
(not necessarily the ones that are addressed to me)
I think of Zarianís words:
"Armenians survive by cannibalizing one another,"
and "An Armenianís tongue can be sharper than a Turkís yataghan."
I sometimes wonder,
what happened to these sharp-tongued Armenians
who cannibalized Zarian?
I assume they are dead and buried by now,
but their children and grandchildren carry on the family tradition,
all the while bragging about their superior brand of Armenianism
which they inherited from their fathers and grandfathers,
sometimes even from their mothers and grandmothers.
Posted 01 March 2002 - 09:11 PM
When we say we are victims of Turks,
Turks say they are victims of Armenians.
When we say Turks are liars,
they say Armenians are liars.
When we say they are killers,
they say we are terrorists.
Now I know where some of my readers got their spirit of contradiction.
The difference between a civilized Armenian and a Neanderthal is that,
the first says "I disagree with you," and the second calls you an idiot.
Among us killer commissars are not a political phenomenon
peculiar to the defunct USSR but a species
that can adapt to all climates and continents,
including the United States of America.
An Armenian who has failed to change the mind of a single Armenian
thinks he can change the mind of a state like Turkey and the United
Figure that one out if you can.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users