5 replies to this topic

[bellthecat]

Dear Filiz

I was reading one of your postings on the Middle East Forum
http://network54.com...ageid=988952656

In particular the following paragraph:

"In addition to that, I also read a biography on a Venezuelan soldier who served in the Ottoman army during WWI. The author of this biography relates in one part how this Venezuelan-Ottoman army officer was disturbed by “what he thought was massacres of the Christian population” (this is the way the author puts it; this means that the author, while compiling his work, came across this in one of the autobiographies of our Venezuelan and, instead of ignoring it, interpreted it himself, trying to downplay the story related – as if it could have been anything other than massacre)."

I have read the original book, it is called "4 years beneath the Crescent" by Rafael de Nogales. Is the "biography" you mentioned a Turkish book? I'd be interested in knowing more about its contents, and how they can explain away the clearly witnessed massacres that Nogales describes.

The Nogales book is important because it is one of the few sources that describe events as they happened from the Turkish side, (although he is always careful to make out that he did not participate in any actual killing of Armenian civilians, and could do nothing to stop such killing - I think the former may be true, the latter is probably not).

Steve

PS, I want to say how intelligent and clearly expressed I am finding your writing to be. Your English is amazingly good, (and I don't just mean grammar - I recognised the reference to Aesops "fox and the grapes"!)

[ThornyRose]

http://network54.com...cuk/Nogales.jpg
That is the cover of the biography on Nogales.
Actually, for almost a year, Boghos and I have been “trying” to get it. His task is much more difficult, whereas I am in the capital... But... I'm so lazy... The Venezuelan embassy... Sounds so far away... I will actually have to go and get it... Maybe this summer, quite early, in fact, if I can take leave one afternoon or something... My only free days are the weekends, and I never had a “break” of three hours or so of school to be able to go and get anything. (In fact, I used to go downtown to pay the bills – now my aunt has to do it for me. tsk tsk tsk)
Nogales was indeed an interesting man. The way he got into the Ottoman army, in particular, is quite “fishy” – I’ll fight, no matter what the side. I guess he really did prefer fighting like anyone else rather than being forced into a “legion of foreigners” if he fought for, say, the French.
The value of his accounts is obvious from this man’s being so observant. He described nearly every minority in the Ottoman Empire – down to the Yezidis, I believe. (I, of course, through this book, have only excerpts here and there.) He has actually examined every minority’s family structures and customs; he comments on how Turkish women are a little more, you know, foxy, compared to their Arab counterparts, showing their locks of blond and curly hair from beneath the veils or something. The greatest praise goes to the Armenian man and wife and how they look after their children. (This is how the author describes it, and he gives an excerpt from the “four years blah blah.”
One peculiarity, though, is this biographer’s recounting Nogales’ experiences in Van. He is supposed to have been there with the battalion to quell a revolt or something. He does not give any quotes there, and I don’t think he could have made it up, but... It says here that Nogales was shocked by what he saw being done to the Muslim population there as well. How is that mentioned in the book? Do you remember?
I think he also clearly stated that he almost got in trouble with Enver ***** for voicing his concerns for the Christian population down south – being a Catholic himself – that is what I am mentioning in that post you have retrieved. Any clarifications on that possible? I don’t think the author could have been manipulating anything, but who knows...?
Fox and the grapes... Don’t tell me you guys have been reading my embarrassing stuff, too... loln (with small letters, laugh out loud nervously)

[bellthecat]

Thank's Thorny

There is a copy of Nogales's book in a library near to me - I'll try and photocopy some of it sometime and then "ocr" it. I have not read all of the book, the Van section is interesting, but the earlier chapter, dealing with Adilcevas, Acht'amar, and his journey across lake Van is genuinely horrifying.

I think he says that Enver ***** was trying to have him assasinated because of what he had seen (which included telegraph messages ordering the massacres) - but that might just be a boast, (or a way of avoiding an Armenian assasin - like I said, his involvement is a little bit ambiguous for comfort).

Steve

[bellthecat]

PS, don't worry Filiz - I didn't dig too deeply into the "embarrassing stuff" (and I'm sure you are a fine bunch of grapes, be you unreachable or not )

Steve

[ThornyRose]

<blushing>

[bellthecat]

I just got photocopies of the pages describing his journey from Adilcevas to Van. I will scan them when I have the time.

Steve

PS, Thorny, could you have a look at my translation question in the Help section.