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Changes Arm. Women & Men Would Like to See In Each Other

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#1 Em



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Posted 11 February 2009 - 05:09 PM


Changes that Armenian Women and Men would like to see in Each Other
Compiled by Dér Stépanos Dingilian, Ph. D. © 2000
Background: Harout Boronozian of the Armenian Singles Group of Glendale, California organized a very informative panel discussion to help Armenian women and men discuss their expectations of each other. Although this was organized by the ‘Singles’ group, yet even married men and women attended and participated in the discussion. There were three panelists and one person who reviewed the discussion afterwards. I was one of the panelists. In order to convey some of the important points and observations, I have separated the article below into three sections. Section I presents ‘Some Observations.’ Section II presents ‘Changes Armenian Women would like to see in Armenian Men.’ And Section III discusses ‘Changes that Armenian men would like to see in Armenian Women.’ The interest and self-respect on the part of both parties helped make this discussion attended by over 150 people very passionate, uplifting and constructive. In such a large group there are always exceptions. Given below are some of the general points and should not be construed as shared by all Armenian women and men. Sections II and III are presented as point and counterpoint. Again, the intent here is to present the views as opposed to drawing conclusions. If you also have some comments and/or suggestions, please let us know.

* * * * *
<H1 align=center>Section I</H1>
Some Observations
Here are a number of brief observations about the discussions:

I. There was no question that at least these Armenian women wanted to marry Armenian men and conversely these Armenian men wanted to marry Armenian women as well. If they did not, they would not have attended this panel discussion. Both groups stated that their intent was not to criticize the other but rather to help them grow as human beings, soul mates in life and better family responsibility participants. Both women and men felt that a person from a cultural heritage similar to theirs would be best suited as a soul mate. Again, there were likely exceptions among the people present.

II. There is an identity crisis that confuses both men and women: To act ‘Eastern’ or to act ‘Western’? This seems to be the question! In fact, both groups concluded that: “No matter what you do, you will have a problem.” Either he (or she) will say that “you are backward” or will say that “you are too aggressive.”

III. Both women and men seemed to have the same complaints about the other. Both accused the other of wanting the luxuries of the traditional Armenian family and community life while not wanting the responsibilities and ‘politics’ that accompanies it.

IV. Both sides seem to fall in the trap of comparing the ‘broken Armenian relationships’ with the ‘fulfilling relationships among non-Armenians.’ However, neither side acknowledged that there are marriages between Armenian women and men that are very fulfilling, loving, egalitarian and supportive. These are as fulfilling as the best of marriages in any other culture. In addition, while comparing the Armenian relationships and marriages to those of the dominant culture in the United States (white Anglo-Saxon), neither women nor men seemed to acknowledge that in that ‘dominant culture,’ 50% of the new marriages break-up within two years. So which 50% of the marriages should the ‘Armenian marital relationship’ be compared to: The 50% that stays together or the 50% that breaks up? Again, this brings out the lack of a clear basis of comparison and the ambivalence that exists in the identity of both Armenian women and men in the United States. What often seems as a struggle between two persons, is in reality a much wider clash of two deeply rooted significantly different cultures.

V. There are gender related issues that many people tend to ‘personalize,’ that is, think that only Armenian men or only Armenian women act that way. For example, many women complained that men were not talkative and did not share their feelings. This is generally true of not only Armenian men, but of all men of all cultures. Misdirected causes and effects such as these often emerged as the root of complaints.

VI. An interesting point emerged: When Armenian women and men want to marry together, then they become concerned about their family status within the community. However, when an Armenian woman wants to marry a non-Armenian man, or vice versa, suddenly the ‘community status’ issue disappears.

VII. It is clear that ‘education’ towards cultural identity and marital expectations as well as ‘communication skills’ is a much needed approach to help both Armenian women and men grow closer to each other in a culture that is new and unfamiliar to both of them.

We will only attempt to give some of the discussion highlights below.

* * * * *
<H1 align=center>Section II</H1>
Changes Armenian Women would like to see in Armenian Men
[/size] The Armenian women (from here on generally ‘women’) spoke passionately of the need for Armenian men (from here on ‘men’) to review their role as soul mates, within their family and even within the community. The issues that the women raised is given by a numeral plus the letter ‘W.’ The response and the points made to a related issue by the men is given in the next section with the same numeral plus the letter ‘M.’

1W. “Armenian men need to see the women as equal ‘partners’ in important decisions that affect the whole family,” said a young pharmacist. A few stated that: “Some Armenian men think that just because they are the ‘head’ of the household, they have a free reign in all decisions.” It was interesting that the women with biblical insight recognized that the root of such one-sided decision-making by the male is not supported by the teachings of the Bible.

2W. “The ‘traditional approach’ to marriage advocated by some men places a great deal of pressure on us to care for his next-of-kin, which takes away from the focus on our relationship and family,” said a schoolteacher. It is an Armenian tradition where the parents tend to live with their son. This places a significant pressure on the son’s wife (hars). Not only is there the normal communication issues between wife and in-laws, but also the additional pressure of caring for the in-laws as they grow older. This was most burdensome for the women who also worked outside of the home.

3W. “Armenian men leave all the family’s home chores up to us,” was a very common statement. Many pointed out that the men in the dominant US culture seem to be more supportive and participating in everything from child-raising to tasks around the house, in comparison to the Armenian men. Again, the women who have to work outside the home are most sensitive to this issue.

4W. “Marriage is a journey that must be taken together. Men and women must fall in love and continue to maintain that loving relationship,” a divorced woman explained. In general, it was the women’s view that once Armenian men marry, it seems that they no longer have the need to maintain and build upon their relationship. They no longer make an effort and show compassion and caring as they did prior to marriage.

5W. “Men do not like talking about issues that are important to them; they hold-in their feelings and anxieties,” said a mother of three. Armenian men are viewed by the women as less able and versed in discussing feelings than men of the dominant US culture.

6W. “Everything seems to be black or white, agree or disagree, my way or yours!” observed a young woman in a frustrated tone. “When disagreements or arguments arise, Armenian men are not likely to discuss the issues in a reconciling and cooperative manner” added another. (Frankly the discussion on this subject did not progress very far. Some became very emotional while others spoke in terms of absolutes: “This is how it is and it won’t change!”)

7W. This point can be summarized by the comment of one person: “Armenian men don’t know what they want so they ask for everything from us. On the one hand they want us to be ‘graceful’ (shnorhalee) and act ‘dignified’ (badvov) as ‘an Armenian woman should.’ But at the same time they expect us to be flirting and acting ‘modern’ as some dominant culture women do. This puts us in a double jeopardy: If we act ‘traditional’ then we are considered backward, too dependent and not progressed enough. On the other hand, if we act more open and forward, then we are considered not ‘dignified’ and ‘graceful’ as women. This is totally unrealistic and confusing!”

8W. “Men don’t seem to realize that the women want some challenges in life outside of the home which they can call ‘their own’” stated both married as well as single women. A professional woman put it this way: “It is OK to be at home and take care of the family. But today we are educated and exposed to numerous cultural, educational and career opportunities. We cannot be ‘caged up’ physically, emotionally or mentally and told “you can’t go here or there by yourself!” After all, this is the twenty first century!”

* * * * *
<H1 align=center>[size="5"]Section III
Changes Armenian Men would like to see in Armenian Women
Here are some of the concerns of the Armenian men.

1M. Armenian men pointed out that Armenian women like to be pampered and guided, instead of acting more proactively as women of the dominant US culture. One complained: “The women want all the luxuries of a traditional relationship and wedding, but they don’t want the responsibility and necessary conduct that accompanies that traditional way of life.” This created a dichotomy for them: If the men are seen as leading the relationship then they are considered heavy handed. If they do not act proactively, then they are seen as not having the courage to make tough decisions. A professional stated: “I just can’t figure out what they want!”

2M. The men seemed to think that the Armenian women tend to pull the husband (or a future husband) towards their side of the family. “All she was taking about is her family and how we should take care of them! What about our family and children? Who will take care of them? After all, our family is our first responsibility,” complained a divorced Armenian male professional.

3M. Armenian men observed that they were taking care of a greater number of chores outside of the home which men of the dominant culture did not have to. This was because the Armenian women did not want to take on such responsibilities, especially where arguments and confrontations were involved. This left the men with less time to take care of family chores inside the home.

4M. Armenian men pointed out that Armenian women generally do not try to take care of themselves after not only marriage, but even after the engagement. After the initial meeting, the men seemed to think that the pressure is placed upon them as men to continuously charm and please the women. Furthermore, the men thought that the women are very easily influenced by the latest “talk show fads.” In the opinion of some men, this placed all sorts of new and unreasonable demands and pressures upon their relationship.

5M. Armenian men considered themselves as ‘doers’ rather than ‘talkers.’ They emphasized the greater need to act and resolve a situation rather than to talk about it. “By the time other men have decided how to talk about an issue, we have already taken action and resolved it. If you got to do it than just do it!,” stated a father of two. They did not feel it is important to concern the women with minor issues that can be resolved. If they shared some worries with the women, they were afraid that the women would worry unnecessarily.

6M. Armenian men felt that there are certain relationship and family issues that are not negotiable. However, they pointed out that women become very emotional about certain subjects and thus make discussions with them impossible.

7M. Just as Armenian women seemed to be frustrated by Armenian men, likewise the Armenian men seemed to be frustrated by Armenian women. A number of men pointed out: “Armenian women like to play ‘hard-to-get’ with Armenian men. It seems that if you are an Armenian male, you have to be questioned, scrutinized and even interrogated about your income, status, family and future. On the other hand, the same women go out with males of the dominant US culture without subjecting them to the same level of scrutiny. It is as though we are held up to a higher standard and placed under greater pressure because we are Armenian men.”

8Ma. The need for the Armenian women to work outside of the home seemed plausible to Armenian men. In fact many women already do. The issue on the part of men seemed to center on the need for the women to focus their effort on taking care of the family. “Armenian women in this country don’t seem to take their child nurturing role seriously,” is the consensus among some Armenian men. A number of them claimed: “The women of previous generations were more willing to take upon themselves the challenge of nurturing and raising their children. Today’s women seem to be more preoccupied with their appearance and social status.”

8Mb. In private, some men confided of a difficult issue with immigrant families. When a family arrives in the US, the males have to work at whatever positions are available just to take care of the family needs. This gives the women a greater opportunity and luxury to study the language and further their education. However, “Once she completed her education, she got a higher paying position than mine, and suddenly, I am no longer ‘good enough’ or ‘cultured enough’ for her,” explained a divorced man with three children.

* * * * *

#2 Em



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Posted 11 February 2009 - 05:10 PM

Submitted without comment. wink.gif

#3 MosJan


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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:36 PM

Ինչո՞ւ են ամուսնական զույգերը նմանվում իրար

Այսօր - 00:56



Հայտնի է որ շատ ամուսնական զույգեր ժամանակի ընթացքում նմանվում են իրար արտաքնապես: Ամերիկացի հոգեբանները հետազոտության անցկացրել ու բացատրություն գտել այս ֆենոմենի համար:

Ուսումնասիրությունների համար գիտնականներին անհրաժեշտ էին նվազագույնը 25 տարվա ամուսինների լուսանկարները: Համեմատվել են ամուսնական կյանքի սկզբում արված լուսանկարները ներկայում արվածների հետ:

Պարզվել է, որ, իսկապես, ամուսինները նմանվում են միմյանց ժամանակի ընթացքում: Ընդ որում, որքան երջանիկ էին նրանք համատեղ կյանքում, այնքան ակնհայտ էր արտաքին նմանությունը: Հոգեբանների կարծիքով, բացատրությունն այն է, որ հարազատ մարդիկ ժամանակի ընթացքում կրկնօրինակում են միմյանց միմիկան, սովորություններն ու դեմքի արտահայտությունը:

Նաև բացառված չէ, որ տղամարդիկ ու կանայք ի սկզբանե ընտրում են կողակիցներ, որոնք ընդհանուր գծեր ունեն իրենց հետ:

#4 man



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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:32 PM

In order to avoid breakups, here is what women want their men to be:

1-Has the power to command
2-Be the quiet confidence to know for sure that he will prevail, and the daring to go for it and take what he wants.
3-Has a commanding presence even if he doesn't know it.
4-Faint hearted men never win fair lady. The winners are those with fearlessness--or daring or courage even in the face of fear. He who dares, wins.
5-Project assurance calmly.
6-The absence of any hint of asking for a favor or appealing to pity.
7- Has directness. Activeness. Effectiveness.
8- And not hiding behind a flirty exterior, never daring to risk being direct.
If a man is like that then he is able to tame a female, even if she is a shrew or a bitch.

And here is what women does not want their men be, men with those traits bring breakups in relationships:

1-Men who have a victim mentality, or who appeal to pity, or who plead or beg for favors, or who grovel, or who are delicate, sensitive, out of this world. (females serve as the grounding force to males to cement them to ground in order to help females to raise children and provide costs)
2-Men who are pale, slender, and  have a soft, sensitive mouth; and look to be objects of hurt from others.
3-Men who seem helpless, or who are endlessly sorry for themselves.
4- Men who have a bad temper that they can't control, or who otherwise appear weak, don't have it.

#5 Yervant1


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Posted 11 February 2014 - 11:30 PM

And the question is, are you a woman or a man? 

#6 onjig



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Posted 27 April 2014 - 10:42 PM

Good question!

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