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#1 joseph parikian

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 09:47 PM

From ArmInfo

ARMENIAN ARYANS DETERMINED TO COUNTER JEWISH-MASONIC AGGRESSION

YEREVAN, OCTOBER 1. ARMINFO. Armenian Aryans are determined to counter the Jewish-Masonic aggression, Chairman of the Armenian-Aryan Union (AAU) Armen Avetissian told a press conference.

According to him, the aggression began as far back as 1900s and was marked by the Armenian Genocide. Armen Avetissian reckoned that it is Jews that masterminded and ordered the Armenian Genocide. The second step after the Genocide was the distortion of Armenian history, an end was put to Armenian studies, historical materials were ordered wherein ""venal scholars" tried to substantiate the theory that Armenians were alien residents in the Ararat valley. Avetissian stated that the Jewish-Masonic aggression is being carried out now as well. Specifically, hundreds of foreign citizens are granted asylums, receive residential permits, whereas the number of Armenian citizens leaving their motherland is steadily increasing. Moreover, many high-ranking officials representing Armenia's political and business elite are Masons and act in the interests of Masonry. The AAU is especially indignant at Speaker of the Armenian National Assembly Artur Baghdasarian, who is a Masonic protege being prepared to run for Presidency in Armenia.

The AAU leader claims that all the "Rotary Club" members are Masons as well. He pointed out that Chairman of the Nationalist Party of Armenia (NPA)Ruben Gevorgiants is a Mason as well. Avetissian found it difficult to say whether Armenian President Robert Kocharian is a Mason, noting that the Armenian leader only assumed certain commitments to them. Avetissian could not specify the way the AAU intends to counter the Jewish-Masonic aggression, pointing out that today's press conference is a "cry of the Aryan soul."

After the press conference, the ARMINFO News Agency received a statement from the Front of Armenian Nationalists (FAN), which says that the parties "Armenian-Aryan Union," "Armenian-Aryan Fist," "Mashtots Union," and "United Alliance of National Forces of Abovian" have been expelled from FAN for violating its Regulations. Therefore, the organization cannot bear responsibility for the activities and statement of the aforementioned forces.

#2 TimeForChange

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 09:30 AM

Granted, heryas in general are not to be trusted, but don`t exaggerate. You can`t blame them for everything. How come there is an Armenian section in Old Jerusalem? How come Armenian studies are offered in some Jewish universities?

What I find ridiculous, is that one Armenian church in Miami brought a Rabbi to talk about the Jewish genocide on April 24th...

#3 vava

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 09:51 AM

And it's ridiculous because... ?

#4 Arpa

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 10:05 AM

Granted, heryas in general are not to be trusted, but don`t exaggerate. You can`t blame them for everything. How come there is an Armenian section in Old Jerusalem? How come Armenian studies are offered in some Jewish universities?

Don't bet too much money on it lest you go bankrupt.
The Armenian sector of Jerusalem and the Vanq have a history of over 1500 years.
In the meantime Jerusalem was under the jurisdiction of Babylonians, Romans, Assyrians, Mameluks, the Caliphates and ..... Ottomans, and British. Did I leave anyone out?
How long has it been under Hrya domination? Fifty years? Don't count your chickens yet!
You may not know this but a Christian sector in a Hrya state is a contradiction in terms at best.
As to Armenian studies, there is one in Ankara too.

#5 TimeForChange

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 11:34 AM

I find it somewhat ridiculous because, from what I heard (relatives living there), the rabbi only talked about the Jewish Genocide, as if we didn't hear enough about it. There's not one single person who hasn't heard about the Jewish Genocide in industrialised countries, while few know about the Armenian one. Movies are made every year in Hollywood about the Jewish Genocide, yet when a movie is made about the Armenian Genocide (Ararat), only a few movie theatres actually bother to play it.

The irony in all of this is that the Jewish genocide would probably never had happened if the world had done something while the Armenian one was going on (we can quote Hitler on this).

Basically, we were the first ones to suffer, never got any recognition or apology, few people know about what happened to us, and then this rabbi (whose people enjoys total recognition and even monetary compensation from the German government and Swiss banks) comes in to talk about genocide? Maybe he should start by pressuring his country to recognise officially the Armenian Genocide beforehand...no, wait, his government can`t because that would not make Turkey happy and Turkey is part of NATO.

Plus, if you look in terms of percentage of total population, there were pobably more Armenians killed than there were Jews killed (percentage-wise, of course, not numbers), though I might be wrong on this one (I have no data).

I also have distant relatives in California (which Armenian doesn`t anyway?!), and I heard that when they just got there in the 1980s, the jews were more helpful to them than the Armenians...They`re now successful lawyers there, but it`s a bit thanks to their jewish friends...

#6 joseph parikian

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Posted 03 October 2003 - 01:45 PM

forgive me this is off the topic but i thought it was intereting to post it
=====================================================

AZERI PRESIDENT WITHDRAWS HIS PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDACY IN FAVOR OF HIS SON

YEREVAN, OCTOBER 3. ARMINFO. The incumbent Azeri president Haydar Aliev has withdrawn his presidential candidacy in favor of his son, Azeri prime minister Ilham Aliev.

In his Thursday address to the Azeri people published by the Ekho newspaper Aliev calls his son his political successor and presents him as a highly intellectual, energetic and pragmatic personality and an excellent politician and economist. "I believe that with your help Ilham Aliev will manage to carry through what I have failed to complete. I trust him like my own self."

Then Aliev speaks about the last years' achievements among them social stability, growing economy and quickly developing democracy.

In conclusion he promises to quickly recover and return home to be with his people again. Haydar Aliev has been in power for almost 30 years.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My observation is " like father like son " both idiots
The idiot father said " I trust him like my own self " big deal

#7 Vayri7X

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 08:07 PM

Let's bury this 19th century pseudo-scientific Aryan and racial non-sense once and for all with a little education in *contemporary* scientific consensus.

I. A Statement from the American Anthropological Associaton on Race


In the United States both scholars and the general public have been conditioned to viewing human races as natural and separate divisions within the human species based on visible physical differences. With the vast expansion of scientific knowledge in this century, however, it has become clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. Evidence from the analysis of genetics (e.g., DNA) indicates that most physical variation, about 94%, lies within so-called racial groups. Conventional geographic "racial" groupings differ from one another only in about 6% of their genes. This means that there is greater variation within "racial" groups than between them. In neighboring populations there is much overlapping of genes and their phenotypic (physical) expressions. Throughout history whenever different groups have come into contact, they have interbred. The continued sharing of genetic materials has maintained all of humankind as a single species.

Physical variations in any given trait tend to occur gradually rather than abruptly over geographic areas. And because physical traits are inherited independently of one another, knowing the range of one trait does not predict the presence of others. For example, skin color varies largely from light in the temperate areas in the north to dark in the tropical areas in the south; its intensity is not related to nose shape or hair texture. Dark skin may be associated with frizzy or kinky hair or curly or wavy or straight hair, all of which are found among different indigenous peoples in tropical regions. These facts render any attempt to establish lines of division among biological populations both arbitrary and subjective.

Historical research has shown that the idea of "race" has always carried more meanings than mere physical differences; indeed, physical variations in the human species have no meaning except the social ones that humans put on them. Today scholars in many fields argue that "race" as it is understood in the United States of America was a social mechanism invented during the 18th century to refer to those populations brought together in colonial America: the English and other European settlers, the conquered Indian peoples, and those peoples of Africa brought in to provide slave labor.

From its inception, this modern concept of "race" was modeled after an ancient theorem of the Great Chain of Being, which posited natural categories on a hierarchy established by God or nature. Thus "race" was a mode of classification linked specifically to peoples in the colonial situation. It subsumed a growing ideology of inequality devised to rationalize European attitudes and treatment of the conquered and enslaved peoples. Proponents of slavery in particular during the 19th century used "race" to justify the retention of slavery. The ideology magnified the differences among Europeans, Africans, and Indians, established a rigid hierarchy of socially exclusive categories underscored and bolstered unequal rank and status differences, and provided the rationalization that the inequality was natural or God-given. The different physical traits of African-Americans and Indians became markers or symbols of their status differences.

As they were constructing US society, leaders among European-Americans fabricated the cultural/behavioral characteristics associated with each "race," linking superior traits with Europeans and negative and inferior ones to blacks and Indians. Numerous arbitrary and fictitious beliefs about the different peoples were institutionalized and deeply embedded in American thought.

Early in the 19th century the growing fields of science began to reflect the public consciousness about human differences. Differences among the "racial" categories were projected to their greatest extreme when the argument was posed that Africans, Indians, and Europeans were separate species, with Africans the least human and closer taxonomically to apes.

Ultimately "race" as an ideology about human differences was subsequently spread to other areas of the world. It became a strategy for dividing, ranking, and controlling colonized people used by colonial powers everywhere. But it was not limited to the colonial situation. In the latter part of the 19th century it was employed by Europeans to rank one another and to justify social, economic, and political inequalities among their peoples. During World War II, the Nazis under Adolf Hitler enjoined the expanded ideology of "race" and "racial" differences and took them to a logical end: the extermination of 11 million people of "inferior races" (e.g., Jews, Gypsies, Africans, homosexuals, and so forth) and other unspeakable brutalities of the Holocaust.

"Race" thus evolved as a worldview, a body of prejudgments that distorts our ideas about human differences and group behavior. Racial beliefs constitute myths about the diversity in the human species and about the abilities and behavior of people homogenized into "racial" categories. The myths fused behavior and physical features together in the public mind, impeding our comprehension of both biological variations and cultural behavior, implying that both are genetically determined. Racial myths bear no relationship to the reality of human capabilities or behavior. Scientists today find that reliance on such folk beliefs about human differences in research has led to countless errors.

At the end of the 20th century, we now understand that human cultural behavior is learned, conditioned into infants beginning at birth, and always subject to modification. No human is born with a built-in culture or language. Our temperaments, dispositions, and personalities, regardless of genetic propensities, are developed within sets of meanings and values that we call "culture." Studies of infant and early childhood learning and behavior attest to the reality of our cultures in forming who we are.

It is a basic tenet of anthropological knowledge that all normal human beings have the capacity to learn any cultural behavior. The American experience with immigrants from hundreds of different language and cultural backgrounds who have acquired some version of American culture traits and behavior is the clearest evidence of this fact. Moreover, people of all physical variations have learned different cultural behaviors and continue to do so as modern transportation moves millions of immigrants around the world.

How people have been accepted and treated within the context of a given society or culture has a direct impact on how they perform in that society. The "racial" worldview was invented to assign some groups to perpetual low status, while others were permitted access to privilege, power, and wealth. The tragedy in the United States has been that the policies and practices stemming from this worldview succeeded all too well in constructing unequal populations among Europeans, Native Americans, and peoples of African descent. Given what we know about the capacity of normal humans to achieve and function within any culture, we conclude that present-day inequalities between so-called "racial" groups are not consequences of their biological inheritance but products of historical and contemporary social, economic, educational, and political circumstances.

[Note: For further information on human biological variations, see the statement prepared and issued by the American Association of Physical Anthropologists, 1996 (AJPA 101:569-570).]

#8 Vayri7X

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 10:34 PM

Armenian-Aryan Fist, et al and RACE:

As to what this has to do with Armenians, I conjecture that we are at a crucial point in our collective history in Armenia and the diaspora in shaping our identity.
I say that this is a point of high flux for us not only because of the newness of the Republic, and all that comes with it in social and political change,. I also say this because of the identity fluxes in the diaspora. Scientific ideas have credibility, and thoughts and themes of race/ethnicity are crucial to the UStates in particular in popular and political life , ( ideas have have influence abroad through globalization) . We shoudl be conscious of the consequence of this/

So much was lost in historic Armenia with the genocide.. where can those voices be now in the great identity debate? Where are those ways of seeing? We lost entire worlds out there.. entire worlds and possibilities...

I never thought I would ever come across this whole "Armenian-Aryan" myth. Especially as a legitimixed , organized political party. Never. Now it seems fairly spread out among Armenians.

Armenian-Aryan Fist, indeed!!! What news is this? Imported white supremacism? EH?

I know there is alot at stake. It seems to me that those who adhere to the Aryan myth have the agenda of trying forge solidarity with certain types of Europeans and Americans in a push to gain access to European goods ( we're just like you, O Masters of the Universe!! just like you! ) Aryan myth adherents make the social capital ( purported Aryan-ness blather) to get the economic capital. Internalized racism seems to be the norm, and any method is allowable with the favoring of co-opting scholarly turns of thought and logic to prop up illogic.

The Armenian freedom fighter and trained anthropologist Monte Melkonian ( for all the problems of his sympathies with authoritarian communism- give him some room for error, he doesn;t have retrospect now, being deceased) wrote a very good piece on Armenian identity and the whole Indo-European ( where hidden dimensions of the Aryan myth sometimes come associated) putch by some Armenians trying to garner creds from Europeans in our history. It did not work then , he wrote, and it will not work now.

#9 gamavor

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 01:38 AM

Contemporary 'scientific' consensus. How expedient, don't you think?
First, let me address the modern - late 19, early 20 century consensus. It was based on racial hegemony and superficial divisions which came to serve - who? The very inventors. The White race (first in her broader version, then in a revised "Americanized' version) was declared "scientifically" superior. Why? Because, whites had the power, the money, the factories and offices, banks etc.
Monte Melkonian as you mentioned above was frequently taken for Chikano, and this was one of the reasons why he revolted against the then 'scientific' anthropology.
In late 20th century the situation was different. The contemporary 'scientific' consensus reached the conclusion that virtually there is no difference in the mental, physical or any other condition of the human beings in general, immaterial of their race. Why? Because in California whites constitute 40% of the population and because globally speaking in few decades or so the whites will be the minority in any given state. By that time we all 'have' to be equal.

Now lets go back to the original topic. The Armenian Aryan Union is a political party, just like the Communist party, Republican party, The Royalists, the Dashnaks, Henchaks, Ramgavars, etc.. It is relatively new political movement and I don't think they will gain enough votes to play major role in any Governmental structure. Such parties exist every where. Your major misunderstanding is that you mix the countries. America is the country of the Americans and Armenia is the country of the Armenians

#10 THOTH

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 03:33 AM

Vayri -

Super posts and glad to see someone posting on this issue that has some real understanding. I've been trying to make some of these same points in the past and have on many occasion been :frusty:

I can't at all fathom how anyone - and particualrly Armenians who have suffered from the ultimate in racial discrimination - could hold such views...

And TFC - hard to say we were "the first" to have suffered such....unfourtunatly it is a very long list....we weren't the first and its doubtful that we have seen the last...all the more important that our Genocide be fully recognized - not just for/by Armenians but for/by everyone.

#11 Vayri7X

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 05:47 PM

gamavor, jaan :) Your points are well taken. I don't think that I confused the two by mentioning ideas that have been globalized . No, no - of course Armenian is not America and vice versa. This is why I specified in the second post of why I thought such ideas carry relevance for Armenians *anywhere* and why I though tit improtant to bring related knowledge to the table where it occurred ( the topic).

***On the political party/political system topic I hear it being said that a proliferation of political parties in Armenia is a sign of intense frustration with most folks not having acces to channels of political power due to nepotism , corruption , etc. And err- jobs of course..

Conversely, in the same debates/discussions ( hard to tell the difference between us sometimes!) others say that this is a sign not of frustration, but *belief* and *faith* in the Armenian political system . That is, a belief in the a.) legitimacy of organizing political parties to gain political power versus other more subversive methods because b.) it produces results - or may .

Of course, the two summaries of sides I hear may not be mutually exclusive. It has been the running theme among visiting and recently arrived Armenians , so they have first-hand experience.

I wonder what others think on this ?

#12 phantom22

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 02:13 AM

Avetissian was almost jailed recently by the Armenian authorities. He is a real troublemaker, and not only for Jews. If he steps out of line again, they are going to jail him.

Edited by phantom22, 04 April 2005 - 02:13 AM.


#13 Anonymouse

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 05:59 PM

Have any of you read the book by Joachin Prinz titled The Secret Jews, in which he documents the Jewish population in Turkey from the time of exile in Spain to the Young Turk movement?

#14 skhara

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 10:18 PM

QUOTE (Anonymouse @ Apr 4 2005, 05:59 PM)
Have any of you read the book by Joachin Prinz titled The Secret Jews, in which he documents the Jewish population in Turkey from the time of exile in Spain to the Young Turk movement?


No, but I know they were called 'marranos' in Spain. I've heard of the book though. I am also interested in the book called "The Banality of Indifference" writen by a Jew BTW. I've read a few exerpts of it online where others have posted. Unfortunately, Barnes and Noble did not have it in stock and I didn't want to have to order it.

#15 Anahit

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 02:46 AM

This is little bit out of the topic, sorry, but in the 1st post the “Rotary Club” was mentioned, and I just want to say something that I am still very curious about when I remember: I just don’t understand. I think it was the summer 2003. After searches in internet I came across this club AND IT HAS BRANCHES IN ARMENIA!!! Wow, I was very excited (now can’t remember why) and they were going to hold a meeting in Ani (if my memory doesn’t fail) hotel, so I was very glad and ready to help them, do something FOR FREE! I had more than 3 months to stay in Armenia, so wanted to volunteer or get an internship. To my huge surprise, they didn’t even want to tell me what “Rotary Club” is, u know, everybody is happy to talk about their org/company/club etc! They were very “afraid of something”, and “kakazum ein”… very strange! Of course thay didn’t even let me close. Were asking me: ”what do u want? Why? How did u learn about us?...” THE ATMOSPHERE WAS SO STRANGE! Seemed like they really had things to hide…

#16 ED

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 11:21 AM

Racism vs. Nationalism: Controversial politician speaks out after arrest for inciting hate

By Julia Hakobyan
ArmeniaNow Reporter

Three weeks after being released from custody an ultranationalistic Armenian politician announced that his arrest was nothing but a trumped-up charge and said he would continue his fight against “anti-Armenian” ideologists.


Avetisyan: I have nothing against Jews
Armen Avetisyan, leader of the Armenian Aryan Order was arrested two months ago for anti-Semitic propaganda and went on trial “for inciting ethnic, racial and religious hatred”. In a series of interviews Avetisyan blamed the country’s current hardship on Judaic-Masonic forces and made appeals to cleanse the country from Jews. (Masons is believed by some to be a powerful international net which influence the global political processes.)

Avetisyan, a marginally-influential though controversial public figure, has been placed on probation and given a suspended three-year sentence. The court said it considered that he has no past criminal record, that he is a veteran of the Artsax war and that he has three underage children, in allowing his release.

Neither the brief incarceration, nor the suspended sentence seem to have tempered Avetisyan’s radical positions.

“The trial was a farce and the arrest was just an attempt to put pressure on me and to make me shut up,” said Avetisyan to journalists on Wednesday. “The arrest was reminiscent of Stalin’s repression of 1937, when disapproved people were taken into custody. It was not an act of justice and Jewish people had nothing to do with that. I never expressed hatred toward the entire Jeshish community in Armenia.”

Avetisyan believes that the true reason for his arrest was his activity against officials whom he claims are homosexual. Last fall Avetisyan made scandalous announcements that he had videos and photographs of Armenian politicians engaged in homosexual acts. Avetisyan promised to publish the list if those politicians would not resign. (No official resigned as a result, nor were any videos released.)

Avetisyan said that for now he decided not to publish the list of homosexual officials. As for his anti-Jewish announcements Avetisyan said that accusation was based on complaints not of the whole Jewish community, but one Jewish Non-Governmental Organization “Jewish Temporal Community of Armenia.” Avetisyan claims that false statements made by the organization’s leader, Rimma Varzhapetyan, caused Armenia to be criticized in an international report on ethnic tolerance.

When Avetisyan was in custody Etel Markova, a Jew who attends synagogue in Armenia appeared on “ALM” TV talk show with accusations against Varzhapetyan. Markova said that Jews in Armenia were never oppressed neither by authorities nor by people and that the accusation against Avetisyan did not correspond to reality. She said she regrets that Armenia appeared in the report and stated that Varzhapetyan makes such announcements to attract more donations from Jewish communities abroad.

Gersh Meir Burshtein, a Chief Rabbi of Armenia shares Markova’s opinion that there is no oppression of Jews in Armenia. The rabbi however accused Avetisyan for anti-Jewish publications, adding that the opinion of one politician is not worth accusing Armenian people of anti-Semitism. Burshtein however refused to comment on Varzhapetyan’s announcements.

“The only Jewish organization, which has official status and has a right to officially represent the Jewish community in Armenia is the synagogue. As a Chief Rabbi I can say Jews enjoy tolerance in Armenia and are in better conditions than the communities in Georgia or Russia,” Burshtein told ArmeniaNow.

The Rabbi said that Avetisyan’s anti-Jewish announcement was a “debut” in Armenia which had no precedents, adding however that they never applied to police. He refused to comment on whether the arrest was an appropriate punishment saying that it is not in his jurisdiction to make comments over the activity of Armenian courts.

Burshtein instead accused Armenia mass-media for publishing and therefore supporting Avetisyan’s position without including comments of Armenian officials who in fact represent the position of the country.

Meanwhile Avetisyan said he does not mind to meet and discuss with Jewish organizations the issues related to his announcements and accusations.

“I never incite hatred and will not to any ethnic groups in Armenia. Armenia is home for all those who care for its prosperity. My fight is against Armenia’s enemies and the arrest could not make me quit my activity,” Avetisyan said.

http://armenianow.co.../?go=pub&id=717

#17 skhara

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 06:44 PM

So, do you believe him here Edward?

QUOTE
“I never incite hatred and will not to any ethnic groups in Armenia. Armenia is home for all those who care for its prosperity. My fight is against Armenia’s enemies and the arrest could not make me quit my activity,”


#18 ED

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:42 PM

QUOTE (skhara @ Apr 14 2005, 04:44 PM)
So, do you believe him here Edward?


Skhara I really dont know this person and I cant make a judgment based just on that statment, but I strongly agree with the massege.

#19 skhara

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:46 PM

QUOTE (Edward @ Apr 14 2005, 07:42 PM)
Skhara I really dont know this person and I cant make a judgment based just on that statment, but I strongly agree with the massege.



Actually, that should have been my question. The very same message can be applied pretty much anywere, and I too agree with it.

#20 Mica

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 07:28 AM

Jews suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




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