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#1 Arpa

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:32 AM

Once again our einstein, Eisenhower Aznavour has spoken, sung from the other end.

Which “muslim Armenians” is he talking about? Which “muslim Armenians” have formed a line, knocking at the doors of Yerevan to be taken in? Is he talking about the Hamshenites? How many of them have or planning to move to Yerevan. Show us. Have the Hmshenites invited him to give a concert in Hamshen/Rize to sing Yis ko ghiymetn chim giti, I know not your worth?

===

http://www.panorama.am/en/society/2013/10/01/aznavour/

 

ARMENIA SHOULD ACCEPT ARMENIAN MUSLIMS

During a meeting with the Armenian president, the famous Armenian singer Charles Aznavour is reported to have told him, 'Armenia should open its doors to the Armenian diaspora who have adopted Islam,' World Bulletin reports. The French national also told the Armenian president during their meeting in Paris that a society should be made up of people from different faiths and it was the responsibility of the state to secure job opportunities and accommodation for all of its citizens. The singer, who is also Armenia's ambassador to UNESCO, told the Le Dauphine newspaper that he also supports the diplomatic coming together of Armenia and their neighbor Turkey. Despite ongoing disputes between the two countries since the Armenian Genocide 100 years ago, Aznavour said that the opening of the Turkish-Armenian border was a more important issue to focus on. He also said that he wanted to return to Turkey, the country where his mother was born, for the first time since he was a child. Although he stated that he didn't have a problem with the Turkish people, he admitted to disagreeing with Ankara's views on the Armenian problem. He expressed no fears in stepping foot in Turkey once again.



#2 Arpa

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:54 AM

When is the last time he visited that Muslim Armenian enclave aka Hamshen?

What language die they speak? French, furkish or ermenije?



#3 Armenak

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 02:26 AM

Once again our einstein, Eisenhower Aznavour has spoken, sung from the other end.

Which “muslim Armenians” is he talking about? Which “muslim Armenians” have formed a line, knocking at the doors of Yerevan to be taken in? Is he talking about the Hamshenites? How many of them have or planning to move to Yerevan. Show us. Have the Hmshenites invited him to give a concert in Hamshen/Rize to sing Yis ko ghiymetn chim giti, I know not your worth?

===

http://www.panorama.am/en/society/2013/10/01/aznavour/

 

 

Well his daughter married a Maghrebi and converted to Islam, so her.


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#4 Arpa

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 09:07 AM

 

Well his daughter married a Maghrebi and converted to Islam, so her.

 

 

OK!

Why is it that the Christian must always convert out and not visa versa?

Maybe our house theologian, MAN who seems to know everything about prophesy/schmiphresy, armageddon and apo-Calypso can answer it.

Is it time we reverse the process, declare fatwas and condemn to death all those apostates?**

Remember the fatwa against Salman Rushdi and others for having insulted islam?

**Apostasy. In islam apostasy =death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#Islam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy

Contraray to my initial thought that it had to do with the Apostles-***

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apostasy

1 : renunciation of a religious faith

2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection

Origin of APOSTASY

Middle English apostasie, from Late Latin apostasia, from Greek, literally, revolt, from aphistasthai to revolt, from apo- + histasthai to stand — more at stand

First Known Use: 14th century

***Apostle, Առաքեալ, Առաքել Ուղարկել. ղրկել=to send.

-----

Definition of APOSTLE 1 : one sent on a mission: as a : one of an authoritative New Testament group sent out to preach the gospel and made up especially of Christ's 12 original disciples and Paul

---- The name.

ԱՌԱՔԵԼ-. առաքել բառից է (եա>ե) հնչյունափոխությամբ. նշանակում է “ուղարկված”, “պատգամավոր”, “դեսպան”: Այժմ ևս բավական տարածված անուն է:

Ps. Why is the Armenian Church called Araqelakan and not Ougharkakan?

 

 


Edited by Arpa, 04 October 2013 - 09:21 AM.


#5 Arpa

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:11 AM

Is Aznavour all mixed up or what? Literally

I saw the French version on Groong. Here it is in English.

http://www.arminfo.info/index.cfm?objectid=BFDEE550-534D-11E3-B92D0EB7C0D21663

That is the problem, I think. I would like to reiterate that I don't think of political problems all the daylong. My wife is a protestant, I am a Christian, my grandson lives in a family of Jews, my granddaughter is a Muslim from Algeria, my son's wife is a Catholic. A true Benetton family! And we have very good relations. If we fail to understand each other, it is our guilt, as we don't want to

====

Charles Aznavour : Je vous avoue que cela m’a toujours un peu chagriné mais je crois que le mot « génocide » gène les israéliens, alors je le dit officiellement si le mot vous gène, trouvez un autre mot. Ma femme est protestante, je suis chrétien, mon petit fils est juif, ma petite fille est musulmane, qu’est-ce qui nous manque ? Je suis du parti de la tolérance, ma famille c’est la famille Benetton!

===

We understand about his grandson ‘s involvement with jews and his granddaughter being muslim.

But what is the implication here; “My wife is a protestant, I am a Christian,” Is he saying that he is Christian but his wife is not?

 

 

 



#6 Yervant1

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:58 AM

THE EMERGENCE OF MUSLIM ARMENIAN COMMUNITY AND ITS SIGNIFICANCE

by Raffi Bedrosyan

http://www.reporter....ts-significance
Published: Monday December 02, 2013

The recent conference on Muslim Armenians held in Istanbul generated
great interest. Hrant Dink Foundation

Related Articles

Time to consider the hidden Armenians of Turkey

Wikileaks: Turkey seeks to target "hidden Armenians"

The conference organized by the Hrant Dink Foundation about
'Islamicized Armenians' at the Istanbul Bosphorus University on
November 14-15 broke one more taboo in Turkey. A hidden reality,
a secret known by many but which couldn't be revealed to anyone,
whispered behind closed doors but also filed in government intelligence
offices, finally broke open into the public.

The late Hrant Dink would be elated to see this conference become
a reality, eight years after the first conference about 'Armenians
during the late Ottoman Empire era and the 1915 events' held at
Istanbul Bilgi University, when protesters hurled insults at the
conference participants and government ministers labelled them
'traitors stabbing Turks in the back'. That conference had also
broken a taboo, but Hrant was already a marked man for revealing the
identity of the most famous 'Islamicized Armenian', Sabiha Gokcen,
Ataturk's adopted daughter and first female Turkish combat pilot, to
be in fact an Armenian orphan of 1915 in the name of Hatun Sebilciyan.

It is a known fact that in 1915 tens of thousands of Armenian
orphans were forcibly Islamicized and Turkified, tens of thousands
of Armenian girls and young women were captured by Kurds and Turks
as slaves, maids or wives, tens of thousands Armenians converted
to Islam in order to escape deportations and massacres, and tens of
thousands of Armenians found shelter in friendly Kurdish and Alevi
villages but lost their identity. What happened to these survivors,
or living victims of the 1915 genocide? Hrant was obsessed with them:
'We keep talking about the ones 'gone' in 1915, let us start talking
about the ones who 'remained'.'

These remaining people survived, but mostly in living hells. And
what's remarkable, their children and grandchildren are now 'coming
out', no more hiding their Armenian roots.

Breaking taboos

One of the first was the famous Turkish lawyer Fethiye Cetin,
who revealed that her grandmother was Armenian, in her book 'My
Grandmother'. This was followed by another book edited by Aysegul
Altinay and Fethiye Cetin, 'The Grandchildren', about dozens of
Turkish/Kurdish people describing their Armenian roots, without
revealing their real identities.

Then came the reconstruction of the Surp Giragos Armenian Church in
Diyarbakir, which became a destination for many hidden Armenians in
Eastern Anatolia to come out. On average, over a hundred people visit
the church daily, most of them hidden Armenians. Some come to pray,
get baptized or married, but most just visit to feel Armenian, without
converting back to Christianity. This has created a new identity
of Moslem Armenians, in addition to the historical and traditional
identity of Christian Armenians.

In a country where only Moslem Turks can work for the government, where
being non-Moslem is sufficient excuse for persecution, harrassment
and attacks, where the word Armenian is used as the biggest insult,
it takes real courage for someone to reveal that he is now an Armenian
and no longer a Turk/Kurd/Moslem. People can easily lose their jobs,
livelihood or even lives for changing their identity.

Just to give an example of the level of racism and discrimination, an
ultra nationalist opposition member of parliament accused the Turkish
President Abdullah Gul for having Armenian roots in his family from
Kayseri. Gul sued her for defamation for being labelled an Armenian;
the courts sided with him ordering her to pay compensation for such
an insult.

Hidden survivors

It is difficult to estimate the number of Islamicized Armenians,
and even more difficult to predict what proportion of them are
aware of their Armenian roots, or how many are willing to regain
their Armenian identity. Based on independent studies of the 1915
events, one can conclude that more than 100,000 orphans were forcibly
Islamicized/Turkified, and that another 200,000 Armenians survived
by converting to Islam or by finding shelter in friendly Kurdish and
Alevi regions.

It is therefore conceivable that 300,000 souls survived as Moslems.

The population of Turkey increased seven fold since then. Using the
same multiple, one can extrapolate that there may exist two million
people with Armenian roots in Turkey today, originating from the
1915 survivors. There were even more widespread conversions to Islam
during the 1894-1896 massacres, when entire villages were forcibly
Islamicized.

A couple of centuries previously, Hamshen Armenians were Islamicized in
northeast Anatolia. The Moslem Hamshentsis, numbering about 500,000,
speak a dialect based on Armenian, but never identified themselves as
Armenian - until recently. Adding all these forced conversions prior
to and during 1915, one can conclude that the number of people with
Armenian roots in present Turkey reaches several million; numbers are
difficult to accurately estimate, but in any case, easily exceed the
present population of Armenia.

The reality is that the secrets of Armenianness whispered for three
or four generations after 1915, are now becoming loud revelations of
new identities. As evidenced in the recent conference, even Hamshen
Armenians have started exploring and reclaiming their long lost roots.

Rediscovering the roots

During the reconstruction of the Surp Giragos Church and in my travels
in eastern and southeastern Anatolia, one out of every three Kurds
that I met had an Armenian grandmother in the family. This fact,
hidden until recently, is now revealed openly, often leading young
generations to reclaim Armenian identities, but without giving up
Islam. One interesting observation is that the hidden Armenians were
aware of other hidden ones and all attempted to intermarry, resulting
in many couples who ended up having Armenian roots from both parents.

The conference attracted numerous academicians, historians and
journalists from within and outside Turkey, as well as dozens of
presenters of oral history.

One of the most dramatic presentations was about Sara, a fifteen
year old Armenian girl from Urfa Viranshehir, who was captured
by the Turkish strongman of the region, Eyup Aga. Eyup wanted to
take Sara as his third wife. When Sara refused, Eyup killed her
mother. When Sara refused again, Eyup killed her father. When Eyup
threatened to kill Sara's little brother, Sara couldn't resist any
more, and married the killer of her parents, on condition that her
brother will be spared and she will keep her name. But her brother
was also eventually killed. As she resisted Eyup's advances, she was
repeatedly raped and was pregnant 15 times, giving birth to 15 babies,
who all died prematurely. Eyup constantly tortured her, even marking
a cross in her body with a knife. The family also mistreated her
as an outcast, and she had a hellish life to the end. At the end of
the story, the presenter, a Turkish academician, revealed that Eyup
and the family who committed these crimes against Sara was her own
family. Her final statement was even more dramatic than the story:
'We always hear stories told by the victims, it is now time for the
perpetrators to start talking about and owning their crimes'.

There are new revelations about how the Turkish government kept tabs on
Islamicized Armenians. Apparently, the government kept records of every
Armenian village or large Armenian clan which was forcibly Islamicized
in 1915. It was recently discovered that the identification cards of
hidden or known Armenians had a special numbering system to identify
them secretly. There are anecdotes that a few Turkish candidates for
air force pilot positions were turned away even though they qualified
after rigorous tests, when government records revealed that they come
from Islamicized Armenian families.

Can Armenians overcome the religious divide?

It is of greater concern to us how the Islamicized Armenians are
being dealt with by Armenians. It seems that the Istanbul Armenian
community and more critically, the Istanbul Armenian Patriarchate
are unable or unwilling to accept the hidden Armenians coming out as
Armenians, unless these people accept Christianity, get baptized and
speak Armenian.

But it is unrealistic to expect the new Armenians to comply with
these requirements. Since Armenians in Turkey are all defined as
belonging to the Armenian Church, if the newcomers are rejected by
the Patriarchate, they become double outcasts, not only from their
previous Moslem Turkish/Kurdish community, but also outcasts from
the Armenian community, cannot get married, baptized or buried by
the Church and cannot send their children to Armenian schools.

If they have made a conscious decision to identify themselves
as Armenian, a risky and dangerous initiative under the present
circumstances, they should be readily accepted as Armenians, regardless
whether they stay Moslem or atheist or anything else.

Relationships get even more complicated as there are now many families
with one branch carrying on life as Moslem Turk/Kurd, another branch
as Moslem Armenian and a third branch as Christian Armenian.

The Echmiadzin Church is more tolerant, which has issued the
following statement: ' Common ethnicity, land, language, history,
cultural heritage and religion are general measures in defining a
nation. Even if one or more of these measures can be missing due to
historic reasons, such as inability to speak the language, or practise
the religion, or lack of knowledge of cultural and historic heritage,
should not be used to exclude one's Armenian identity'.

Charles Aznavour's approach is the most welcoming when he states:
'Armenia should embrace the Islamicized Armenians and open its doors
to them'.

After Armenia, Karabagh and the Diaspora, there is now an emerging
fourth Armenian world, the Islamicized Armenians of Turkey. Accepting
this new reality will help both Turks and Armenians understand better
the realities and consequences of 1915.
 



#7 Yervant1

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:05 PM

We can make use of Muslim Armenians in Eastern Turkey by increasing their numbers and make it a de facto  Western Armenia once again by sheer population. Just thinking out loud!



#8 Yervant1

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:01 PM

09:21 14/12/2013 » SOCIETY

Reflections of a participant at the ‘Islamized Armenians’ conference in Istanbul

By Doris K. Melkonian, Asbarez 
Passing through the security gates of the historic Bogazici University, the former Robert College, I was struck by the beauty and serenity of the campus as we meandered through a drive paralleling the breathtaking Bosphorus on the right. The contrast of the bustling touristic Sultanahmet and Taksim districts to the tranquil campus was undeniable. While absorbing the beauty of my surroundings, I was reminded of my friend, Steve, a native of Istanbul, who described his student days here at the university with such passion. His love for this institution was evident in his voice as he instructed me to walk by the Bosphorus and “breathe in the air” for him. As I was following his explicit instructions, I was sadly reminded of other young Armenian men who attended this institution a century ago with hopes and dreams for a brighter future. Unlike my friend, Steve, their goals and dreams were never to be realized as the Genocide robbed them of a golden future. Their stories flooding my mind, created an inner conflict as I was forced to reconcile this dark past with the present-day beauty of magnificent stone buildings of Bogazici University.
A range of emotions colliding within me, I made my way through a courtyard teeming with Armenian and non-Armenian attendees, to encounter yet additional security checks and a metal detector, prior to entering Albert Long Hall where the conference was to take place. The hall, with remnants of years gone by, showcased a massive pipe organ that dominated one end and a choir loft, the other end.
The audience, exceeding 500, had assembled into this majestic hall. As I gazed at the sea of attendees, I was struck by how different the audience looked compared to United States audiences. What was immediately noticeable were women, young and middle-aged, with head coverings, quietly seated, listening attentively.
As speaker after speaker provided historical accounts, analyses, vignettes, and narratives of ordeals endured by survivors both during and after the Genocide, a sense of sorrow permeated the proceedings for me. My heart ached not only for the loss of precious Armenian lives during the Genocide but for the tragic fate endured by the fragment of the Armenian population who had been left behind.
In the diaspora, we mourn the 1.5 million who perished during the Genocide. We seldom remember the remnants of the Armenian community who couldn’t leave and were forced to assimilate. They experienced a different kind of death – a living death, suffering in silence and isolation. While presenting my paper, I remembered my maternal grandfather, Natan, who was taken into a Muslim household as a little boy. Had he not escaped, he would have suffered the same fate as many Islamized Armenians.
The conference concluded with grandchildren of Islamized Armenians describing the sting of rejection by the Armenian community, and their longing for acceptance. Tears rolled down my cheeks as I listened to their pain. Their grief and suffering, palpable with each uttered word, deeply resonated within me. My heart ached for these individuals who don’t belong to either community – Turkish Muslim nor Armenian Christian. I couldn’t help but grieve with them, as feelings of empathy for their suffering found root within me.
As Armenians – Christian Armenians, how should we respond? When an Islamized Armenian, in the halls of a Turkish university, publically exclaims “I am Armenian!”, what should our response be? Do we accept them into our midst, thus creating a mosaic of Armenians? As Christians, do we embrace them with the love of Christ? Or do we reject and abandon them?
At the conclusion of this historic conference, I left the tranquil campus consumed with inner turmoil, a different kind of turmoil from what I experienced initially, as I contemplated the challenges we will face as a community as we respond to this group of hybrid individuals. Today, on the eve of the Genocide centennial, the surfacing of Islamized Armenians is a reminder of the trauma that has impacted us, of the tremendous loss that we as a nation have endured, and of the challenges that lie before us.
I went to Istanbul with great anticipation to present my paper, to meet fellow scholars from around the world, to reunite with friends and make new ones.
However, I did not expect to be forced to confront my own uneasiness at the notion of a “Muslim Armenian.”
I did not expect to find myself mourning the pain of fellow human beings, fellow Armenians.
I did not expect to be moved so deeply, to find myself reaching out and hugging strangers who didn’t share my language, my religion, my culture, but who nonetheless considered themselves Armenians.
Having encountered Islamized Armenians and their stories, how can my response be anything other than compassion, acceptance, and love?
 
 

Source: Panorama.am



#9 Yervant1

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:29 PM

Not everyone who wants can become Armenian - Istanbul Provincial Hall

December 14, 2013 | 08:08


A family in Turkey, which had returned to their Armenian roots and
wished to enroll their child in an Armenian school in Istanbul,
recently filed a respective petition with the court.

In turn, the Istanbul Provincial Hall sent a ridiculous defense
statement to the court.

In the statement, Istanbul Provincial Hall justified why it had not
permitted the child to attend an Armenian school, Radikal daily of
Turkey reports.

The statement noted that solely national minorities can be enrolled in
national minority schools in Turkey, there is no information on the
Armenian roots of the plaintiff, whereas the Armenian church paper,
according to which the child is Armenian, is not enough.

The statement also noted that the Interior Ministry special code for
the Armenians was not applied for the given family, and, according to
Istanbul Provincial Hall, not everyone who wants can become Armenian.

To note, however, the court did not take the given Istanbul Provincial
Hall statement into consideration and instructed the provincial hall
to allow the child to attend an Armenian school. The court stressed
that the use of ethnic codes to determine the ethnic identity of a
person runs contrary to human rights.


News from Armenia - NEWS.am
 



#10 Boghos

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:58 PM

Yes, yes we have no shortage of daydreamers. I was recently in Turkey, in Marash, in Ani, and a few other places. Wouldn't hold my breath.

#11 Arpa

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 02:54 PM

Ola Paulo!

How is that my phrase in narinjeren? :ap:
Did you see my ancestors’ house in Sheker Dere/Sugar Valley?

But, above all, did you sample that famous Marash (dondurma) ice cream?


Edited by Arpa, 22 December 2013 - 02:56 PM.


#12 Boghos

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 05:01 PM

Marash dondurmasi a few times. Went to see my grandfather's house, also went to Kerhan, where the summer house was. There is a big avenue called Alparslan Turkes...so you can easily figure what kind of place it has become. Lots of stories, actually.

#13 Yervant1

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:39 AM

logo.png

Bedrosyan Sheds Light on Hidden Armenians of Turkey
 | JULY 24, 2014 12:58 PM

 

By Jirair Tutunjian

TORONTO — Islamized, Turkified, Kurdified and Hamshen Armenians have peaked the interest of Armenians, particularly since the late Hrant Dink stated that there are millions of hidden or lost Armenians in Anatolia. Subsequently, Dink’s revelation expanded the Armenian campaign for the return of Armenian lands and properties to include Armenians who were forcibly taken away from the Armenian nation.

Raffi Bedrosyan, a Toronto engineer, musician, journalist, and activist, who frequently visits Turkey and was deeply involved in the recovery and reconstruction of Surp Giragos Cathedral in Diyarbakir, delivered a speech about the dual topics — people and property — at the Tekeyan Cultural Centre on June 12.

Bedrosyan’s talk was peppered with amazing — and often unknown to the audience — facts and stats;

•There are more than 1 million hidden Armenians in Turkey; nearly half as many Armenians as in Republic of Armenia.

•General Karabekir Turkified 60,000 Armenian orphan boys and enlisted the healthiest among them in the army. These orphan soldiers were raised as Armenian-hating Turkish racists who were among the leaders of the young officers who brought down the government of Celal Bayar and Adnan Menderes and executed the two Turkish leaders in 1961.

•Enslaved Armenian girls were sold for as little at 10 “ghroosh” (piasters). Girls who came from wealthy families fetched a higher price at the slave bazaar because buyers speculated that someday they could inherit the wealth of their Armenian slaves’ slain families. They were tattooed on their foreheads and bodies to identify them as Armenian slaves.

•About 25,000 Armenians sought sanctuary in Alevi-inhabited Dersim. Twenty years later, during the Alevi Revolt there, Sabiha Gokcen, the first Turkish female military pilot, was among the Turkish forces which bombed Dersim and thus inadvertently killed her fellow Armenians (Gokcen was an orphan whose name was Khatoon Sebiljian. She was adopted by Ataturk who gave her the Turkish name. It’s believed that Dink’s revelation of Gokcen’s origins led to his assassination by Turkish nationalists.)

•Diyarbakir experienced the highest percentage of deaths during the Genocide. About 97 percent of the city’s Armenians were slain in their hometown.

•About one-third of Kurdish families have Armenian grandmothers. Now their grandchildren are asking about their roots and writing books and articles about their origins.

•Before the Genocide there were about 4,000 Armenian churches (Apostolic, Catholic and Protestant) and more than 800 Apostolic schools across the Ottoman Empire. Most were razed in 1915 and some which survived were destroyed in the 1950s and the 1960s. Some Armenian churches were used by Turkish army cannons for target practice. A significant number of the churches dated from the 8th, 9th, and 10th centuries. Of the many which still stand most are stables and warehouses.

•In Aintab, St. Mary’s Armenian Cathedral was sold by Ataturk to a Turkish industrialist in 1930. The price? 425 liras. It became a factory and is now a community center. Its architects were the famous Balyans of Istanbul.

•Kars, an economically depressed city across from the Republic of Armenia, boasts a half-wrecked hut which is priced at a cool $3 million because the owner has learned that it was the home of Armenian poet Yeghishe Charents.

•The Sanasarian Building in Istanbul, which supported the Sanasarian School in Garin (Erzerum) before the Genocide, became one of the most notorious torture prisons in Turkey in the ‘70S and ‘80S. The school was the site of Ataturk’s First Congress.

•One-third of the budget to reconstruct Surp Giragos Cathedral was contributed by the Diyarbakir municipality.

•Four thousand people attended the opening of the cathedral, although there are no Christians left in the area.

•Since the opening of the cathedral (2012) hundreds of local people — hidden Armenians — have come forward to be taught Armenian at the cathedral. Many of the Islamized Armenians have since been baptized there or got married.

•Outside Istanbul there are only five functioning Armenian churches (from the pre-Genocide 4,000) in Turkey.

Bedrosyan’s talk was accompanied by a slide show of the various Armenian churches and monasteries, including the famed Surp Varaka Vank. The historic monastery, where Khrimian Hayrig was abbot in the 1860s, is now owned by an Armenophobe journalist and TV personality. Negotiations are underway, said Bedrosyan, to purchase the badly damaged monastery.

•Throughout Anatolia, Armenian historic sites are identified as Turkic, Georgian, Urartian and even Russian, although Armenian inscriptions and alphabet are clearly legible on any of them.

•Some years ago Turkish guides would tell tourists that the magnificent Istanbul palaces built by the members of the Balyan Family were the work of the Italian architect Baliani. Now they admit the true origin of the architects.

Bedrosyan also talked about the three waves of emigration/conversion which conflated to become today’s Hamshens in the south, east, and northern shores of the Black Seas. He said the Hamshen name derives from a Medieval prince called Ham who took his people away from the Seljuk-ravaged Armenia and headed northeast, close to the southern shores of the Black Sea. The “shen” part of Hamshen derives from the Armenian word for building.

He also told a fascinating story about how, in the 1980s, many Hamshens in Turkey learned that they were Armenian and not an obscure Turkish tribe from Central Asia, as they had been told by the Turkish government. The revelation occurred thanks to an ASALA fighter on trial in Turkey. During his trial, the fighter gave testimony only in Armenian. Hamshens watching the trial on television understood what the fighter was saying and thus realized that the language they spoke was Armenian and not a Turkic dialect. With that realization came their awakening to their Armenian identity.

Bedrosyan said the solution to Armenian Cause lies in Turkey. To signal its good intentions towards Armenia and Armenians, Ankara should:

Open the border and call it Hrant Dink Gate

Grant citizenship to the descendants of the Genocide survivors

Clean up Turkish textbooks and tell the truth

Return and restore 2,000 Armenian churches

Return Ararat and Ani as symbolic apology

Open Ottoman property deeds, liquidation, deportation records.

Bedrosyan, who was born and raised in Istanbul, said the return of Armenian properties in Turkey has become his mission in life. The master of ceremonies was Kevork Tutunjian, chairman of Tekeyan Cultural Centre of Toronto. Bedrosyan’s speech included a slide show featuring rare photos of Varaka Vank, Charents’ home, immense groups of Armenian orphans, Armenian ‘slave’ girls with tattoos on their faces…

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#14 onjig

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 01:55 PM

Those islamized by force would throw off their chains, right. I can see an Armenian who does not practice their faith or have faith. I cannot see a muslim who calls himself an Armenian. Yes, throw off that dirty cloak you were forced to ware.

 

Some of our Saints were not, I understand, of our blood. Armenian is what we feel, in Here.

 

There is in Physical Anthropology: Armenoid named after the Armenian. It is said all Armenians are armenoid but not all armenoids are Armenian.

All Chevrolets are General Motors cars but not all General Motors cars are Chevrolets.

 

I have read about half of the Greeks are Armenoid the rest are Slavic, but they are all Greeks at least those that feel it in Here.

 

If any are Armenian in Here by their heart then they hold dear and love what we are.

 

I don't believe any who feels Armenian deep in Here can throw off, not want, what is so a part of our Culture or take on and love something so alien, against, that hates who we are once they are free and safe to choose.



#15 onjig

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 02:18 PM

There are those, who were said to be, "Islamized Armenians"  that moved to western Europe, are they muslims today? I'd like to know that one.

 

I read of their move here on the forum.


Edited by onjig, 07 May 2015 - 02:21 PM.


#16 onjig

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 02:34 PM

 
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Seda Aznavour: none of Aznavour family converted to Islam
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cmnts.gifFebruary 8, 2013 - 14:28 AMT

PanARMENIAN.Net - World-famed chansonnier Charles Aznavour's daughter refuted reports of her sister Katia's conversion to Islam over her marriage to a Moroccan man in a Wednesday, February 6 Facebook post.

"I want to let my FB friends know that we Aznavours are confirmed Christians. Armenia was one of the first Christian states, with our ancestors having died for their faith. We're proud of our family's struggle to preserve our roots. None of the Aznavour family adopted Islam or intends to do it. It's inconceivable that we should abandon our faith and heritage," Seda Aznavour said in her Facebook post.






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