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COMMISSAR and MASIS SAR


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#1 Arpa

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 08:38 AM

COMMISSAR and MASIS SAR

Truth hurts.
We know it best.
Can we talk? Can we for once speak the truth?
All those legends about who did what to us. Can we talk about WHAT WE DID TO US?
How about we stop passing the buck, like what mehmet, lenin and stalin did to us and start talking about what we did to us? The saga does neither start or end there.
Look at what is happening in the fiasco of Artsakh. Everyone and their cousins are talking about it, including but not limited to the likes of (ras)Putin, Medvedev, alioghlu, erbokhan, Obama and others,... OSCE, ABC, NBC, CBS, UPS :P and FEDEX :D are all talking about it. Where is our voice? Who’s listening? Who is hearing? Everything we say is echoed and misquoted from ankaka and bokhu.

This is from the category of Famous Armenians-Mikoyan.
Do we have a category of “infamous Armenians”?
All these legends to loll an lullaby ourselves to sleep at night. Anush qoun, bari yeraz. Քուն եղիր բալաս:

http://hyeforum.com/...=0

And this, another “infamous Armenian-Shahumian”.

http://hyeforum.com/...=0

We know that at that time ivan the chicken and mhmet the wolf signed, chicken- scratched on the dotted line. In 1922 when it is assumed that stalin ceded Nakhjavan and Artsakh to assergagjan, both so called Armenians, Mikoyan and Shahumian were commissars, neither of which livde in Armenia. Just like today when neither . Queen Louise, King Hovnanian, nor prince Manoian live in Yerevan. Yeah, yeah, let us bark from 10,000 miles away and see if anyone hears us and are scared.
Why did Shaumian die in baku 1000 miles away from Yerevan and Mikoyan die in moscow, 3000 miles from Yerevan? Just like Vratsian and his cohorts dying in Beirut? Did either of them have something to say about that Stalinist transfer of territories?
How about we stop lying to ourselves. No one believes our lies anyway!!!
How come Anastas did not change his name to Mikovski and Stepan to Shahumov, or shahumoghlu?
What the is “Mikoyan” anyway, is it Mkrtichian or Mikayelian? Or “shahumian”, whose , ում շահու մասին ենք խօսում/ “shah” are we talking about?

http://www.armenianh...y.info/ussr.htm

On December 1, 1920 as the news about the Sovietization of Armenia reached Azerbaijan, Narimanov, the chief of the Revolutionary Committee of Azerbaijan, surprisingly declared about the cessation of the Azerbaijan's claims to the Armenian territories and proclaimed Karabakh, Nakhichevan and Zanguezour, integral parts of Armenia. However, just a day later, the Narimanov's decree appeared in a slightly different wording: Nakhichevan and Zanguezour were recognized parts of Armenia, whereas Karabakh was given the right of self-determination.
Nonetheless, the strange alliance between the Turks and the Russian Bolsheviks played a fatal role in the final determination of borders. The Treaty of Alexandropol, signed in December of 1920 asserted the defeat of Armenia. Then in March of 1921, Turkey and Russia signed a mysterious Treaty of Moscow to tear Nakhichevan away from Armenia and to attach it to the Soviet Azerbaijan.
In summer of 1921, the Caucasian Office of the Communist Party of Bolsheviks held a number of sessions to solve the Karabakh problem. On July 4, the plenary session issued a decree confirming the belonging of Karabakh to Armenia. However, on the next day, Stalin convened an extraordinary session to transfer Karabakh to Azerbaijan. The Treaty of Kars signed in October of 1921 completed the carve-up of Armenia.
As a result of the Soviet and Turkish manipulations, the territory of the Soviet Republic of Armenia was reduced to 30,000 square km. Armenia was even deprived of Mount Ararat, its main symbol



#2 Boghos

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 02:21 PM

Not sure we should blame Mikoyan. Actually if we are to believe certain versions of history, Mikoyan lobbied very hard to maintain Armenia's status as a republic after WWII when the population was quite small and obviously affected by the War. Also the fact that he survived Stalin and was not executed after Khruschev took over must mean something. In fact Mikoyan's role in the USSR is something obscure. Dadrian mentions that Mikoyan gave a speech in Armenia in 1951 suggesting that Charentz and Raffi should be back in print, intellectuals rehabilitated, etc which is not unlike most of what was happening in other republics. We Armenians may choose strange heros but to blame Mikoyan for the loss of Karabagh and Nakhichevan seems to be uncalled for.

#3 Zartonk

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 03:55 PM

Not sure we should blame Mikoyan. Actually if we are to believe certain versions of history, Mikoyan lobbied very hard to maintain Armenia's status as a republic after WWII when the population was quite small and obviously affected by the War. Also the fact that he survived Stalin and was not executed after Khruschev took over must mean something. In fact Mikoyan's role in the USSR is something obscure. Dadrian mentions that Mikoyan gave a speech in Armenia in 1951 suggesting that Charentz and Raffi should be back in print, intellectuals rehabilitated, etc which is not unlike most of what was happening in other republics. We Armenians may choose strange heros but to blame Mikoyan for the loss of Karabagh and Nakhichevan seems to be uncalled for.



Very interesting. I was unaware of this.

Edited by Zartonk, 02 August 2011 - 09:07 AM.


#4 Arpa

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 04:06 PM

Yes Boghos, that is the kind of positive response I was hoping for, even if my original post may have been kind of negative.
Oddly, none of our former yerevanite friends have responded to tell us how Anastas was viewed in the 50-60-70-80-90 and 2000-s.
Is there a tacit message here?
When one googles "mikoyan-migoyan" a million sites will refer to Ardem of the MIG fame, and very few, next to none to Anastas.

Edited by Arpa, 01 August 2011 - 04:15 PM.


#5 MosJan

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 05:13 PM

i'm just going to add some info


at 2.45m April 29, 1963 JFK Meeting with Anastas Mikoyan.



#6 MosJan

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 05:15 PM

http://www.britishpa...rd.php?id=67448


MIKOYAN FETED IN CUBA video newsreel film

Unused material.

Anastas Mikoyan feted in Havana. Cuba.

MS First Vice Chairman of the Council of Ministers of USSR Anastas Mikoyan standing at dais. LS crowds gathered outside the Soviet Exhibition in Havana. LS sign outside the exhibition. Various interior shots of crowds walking around. MS Mikoyan and Fidel Castro walking towards camera. MS model in exhibition.

LS Mikoyan pointing something out to Fidel Castro. CU Castro laughing. MS Castro looking through a microscope. CU Mikoyan and Castro. MS crowds arguing in the streets in Havana. MS crowds cheering and clapping. LS pan, people walking about. MS an almost empty street.

LS several youths being chased by a policeman. MS as policeman jumps into car and youths try to keep the door open but the car drives off. LS crowds outside the exhibition. CU Mikoyan. LS crowds. MS Cuban soldiers holding their rifles up. LS Mikoyan speaking on dais with Castro seated on left of screen, they start clapping.

Cataloguer's note: American commentary.



#7 MosJan

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 05:16 PM

http://www.britishpa...rd.php?id=84390


MIKOYAN IN GHANA video newsreel film


Accra, Ghana.

High angle shot of physical training exhibition in Black Star Square, Accra, Ghana. Various shots of the African delegates looking and applauding during physical training display in honour of the Russian guest visiting the country, Anastas Mikoyan, First Vice Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR. Physical training display still in progress. GV. Balcony with African delegates looking on. High angle long shot of African activities on Black Star Square. MS. Ghana's Prime Minister Dr Kwame Nkrumah. MS. Mikoyan being greeted and walks past camera followed by his delegates. Various shots of the delegates seated at tables in reception. hall. MS. Nkrumah's speech at reception. Various shots of the people chatting at reception. MS. Nkrumah proposes toast to Mikoyan and they both stand, touch glasses in toast, and drink. MS. & CU. Mikoyan's speech with aid of an interpreter. MS. Mikoyan and Nkrumah toasting again MS. Mikoyan and Nkrumah leave reception smiling.

#8 Boghos

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 05:18 PM

Yes Boghos, that is the kind of positive response I was hoping for, even if my original post may have been kind of negative.
Oddly, none of our former yerevanite friends have responded to tell us how Anastas was viewed in the 50-60-70-80-90 and 2000-s.
Is there a tacit message here?
When one googles "mikoyan-migoyan" a million sites will refer to Ardem of the MIG fame, and very few, next to none to Anastas.


At the end of the day the conclusion is that we have been mostly spectators over much of our history. Whether that means anything is a whole different subject.
On Anastas I think much further digging is necessary. I am not aware of any biography of him which is quite surprising. He held very high posts in the USSR for quite a long time. Unfortunately most Armenian historiography is still conducted in the form put forward by Khorenatsi :) .
Shouldn't we call Ardem, Anushavan? That's his real name and you can even see it in his monument. Ardem was a Russian adaptation.

#9 MosJan

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 05:18 PM

Unissued / unused material.

http://www.britishpa...rd.php?id=64985

Anastas Mikoyan (First Vice Chairman of Council of Ministers of the USSR) visits Macy's Store and Wall Street, New York, United States of America (USA).

CU pan down building to show car pulling away from entrance. CU sign for department store "Macy's". Panning shot showing display of crockery. Various shots of Mikoyan walking around store, on escalator, etc. LS of crowd outside store. Travelling shot from car driving along Main Street, passing road sign. Panning shot down bank building to entrance, mounted policemen outside. LS Mikoyan's car arriving with motorcade escort. MS Mikoyan alighting from car and entering bank. LS crowds outside store.

Date on dope sheet is 16/01/1959.

#10 MosJan

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 05:19 PM


Mikoyan speech during the Great Purge



#11 MosJan

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 05:20 PM





Анастас Микоян: Мне просто везло

Анастас Микоян, (25.11.1895-1978), на протяжении сорока лет входил в Политбюро ЦК КПСС, занимал высокие посты в руководстве СССР. В 1964-1965 годах был главой Советского государства - Председателем Президиума Верховного Совета СССР.
В силу столь долгого пребывания в высших коридорах советской власти про Микояна была сложена пословица: От Ильича до Ильича без инфаркта и паралича. Сам Микоян объяснял это так: Мне просто везло.



#12 MosJan

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 05:39 PM



"im baxt@ berets "

#13 MosJan

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 05:41 PM




Anastas Ivanovic Mikojan in New York (1959) /czech/


#14 MosJan

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 05:59 PM

he did his best, for us for our nation.. saved many life's of Armenian intellectuals

i just can't find that video ...

#15 Zartonk

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:10 AM

Հետաքրքիրա ժողովուրդ...տեսես երբ մեր պատմաբանները կսկսեն զբաղվել:

#16 Arpa

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:07 AM

So far only a Brazilahay, a Parskahay, and MosJan have responded to the question by this Halepa-Amerika-hay.
Let me repeat. I would like to see the opinion of our former Yerevana-Hay friends, hopefully positive about the subject. I know, many of them may not remember those days. How about their parents and grand parents? They know who they are. I will abstain from naming names lest I leave some out.
Please forgive me for sounding the “zartonk”, the wake up call, to take a break from such mindless items like kardash and baghdadli-oghlu.

Edited by Arpa, 02 August 2011 - 11:25 AM.


#17 MosJan

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 02:12 PM

http://en.domotica.net/Anastas_Mikoyan

#18 Arpa

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:29 AM

Thank you Mos for the videos above. Can you please find any where he speaks armansky? Did he in fact speak Armenian? What provincial dialect? Sanahin or Allah-verdi?
What surprised me. My impression of him, judging from existing portraits that he was a towering tall person, but viewing some of the videos above, like in the company of Castro and others he seems to be quite diminutive in stature, to not overlook his hitleresque moustache..
Everyone, I mean this with all sincerity, please say good things about him. Yes, above we saw that he had lobbied for the statehood of Armenia.
Please, please again. I am looking to see what official Yerevan says something good about him.
Here we see his exploits in bokhu and Moscow. Funny that he as commissar of nutrition saw the improvement of ice cream production. Once again, what is the Russian word for ice cream?.marosh-enoye?**
http://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D4%B1%D5%B6%D5%A1%D5%BD%D5%BF%D5%A1%D5%BD_%D5%84%D5%AB%D5%AF%D5%B8%D5%B5%D5%A1%D5%B6
**Hi Boghos. Did he know about Marash Ice Cream, baghbaghak? See above marosh/marash.

#19 Arpa

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:04 PM

http://1.bp.blogspot...s1600/genie.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.../genie.jpgBelow we read a reaction, an indignant letter to the editor of AZG by a certain Marat Mejlumian** of Rostov on the Don, about their objection to the suggestion of renaming Vanadzor as Mikoyan. Aside from their trash talk about how Vanadzor, Nakhjavan and Ijevan were named for the descent of that clown noah.
http://www.azg.am/AM...1912</span></u>
Further down they write about the time when the Hamshen Armenians along with the Meshkhetian turks were banished to Central Asia, and that all their pleas to Anastas to repatriate them had fallen on deaf ear, that he ignored, refused and rejected their supplications.
Sadly, I don’t read russky. Are there documents to substantiate the above allegations?
When, what year was it?
**MejluM/MejluN is an Arabic word to mean crazy.posessed by jins . :yes:


http://1.bp.blogspot...s1600/genie.jpg

Edited by Arpa, 20 December 2012 - 12:11 PM.


#20 Arpa

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 08:18 AM

Is this true?

In 1937, Mikoyan was sent to Armenia where he signed the verdicts and sentences passed by the Troika. Mikoyan was, in fact, the executioner on the high-profile cases like those involving writer Axel Bakunts, Sahak Ter-Gabrielyan and a number of other Soviet Armenian politicians,

http://www.nndb.com/...tas mikoyan.jpg
anastas%20mikoyan.jpg
http://www.armeniano...onument_yerevan

Monument Controversy: Decision to set up statue of Soviet leader raises eyebrows in Yerevan

By Sara Khojoyan
ArmeniaNow reporter
A recent decision by Yerevans municipality to erect a monument to Soviet-Armenian politician Anastas Mikoyan in the city has elicited mixed reactions in Armenia given the legacy of Stalins close associate.
Many regard the initiative as an attempt to please Putins Russia, with which Armenia is currently engaged in closer integration as part of the Eurasian Economic Union establishment process. Others take the move in its stride, considering that Mikoyan was a prominent political figure who deserves to have his image immortalized in stone. On April 30, the Yerevan Council of Elders approved the initiative on Mikoyans monument, with the ruling Republican Partys faction (except one member Hayk Demoyan, director of the Genocide Institute-Museum) and the Prosperous Armenia Party voting for it. The opposition Barev Yerevan faction opposed the decision. Mikoyan (1895-1978) was a Soviet statesman who occupied high posts under Lenin, Stalin as well as later under Nikita Khrushchev and Leonid Brezhnev. Many historians see his role in Stalins great purge, including in the territory of Soviet Armenia. The decision by the Yerevan authorities to install the monument to Mikoyan (considering that Mayor Taron Margaryans father, late Prime Minister Andranik Margaryan was a Soviet-era dissident) caused a debate on online social networking sites where many appeared to oppose it. Critics mainly linked Mikoyan to the execution of thousands of Armenians held as enemies of the people during the Stalin rule. Even noting that Mikoyan was a good diplomat, they do not forget to stress that he put his qualities to the service of the Soviet empire and became a symbol of Soviet values. Specialist in culture studies Vardan Jaloyan sees the decision by Yerevans municipality as something consistent with the current propaganda of the Soviet Empire across former Soviet countries. According to him, propaganda through such a well-known and influential Soviet political leader as Mikoyan will give Armenians the sense of being part of that Empire. In this regard, I believe that the decision reflects the interests of Russia, and this is perhaps what should have happened, considering the economic and political dependence of Armenias elite on Russia, Jaloyan tells ArmeniaNow. He says that the rebirth of Soviet values is taking place in Putins Russia, that is, the Soviet Union is being glorified as the most powerful Russian Empire that ever existed, and the logic of the initiative connected with a Mikoyan monument in Yerevan becomes clear in this light. In 1937, Mikoyan was sent to Armenia where he signed the verdicts and sentences passed by the Troika. Mikoyan was, in fact, the executioner on the high-profile cases like those involving writer Axel Bakunts, Sahak Ter-Gabrielyan and a number of other Soviet Armenian politicians, says Jaloyan. Those favoring the decision to erect a monument to Mikoyan view him as a powerful figure of his times. Information security expert and prolific blogger Tigran Kocharyan is not an ardent proponent of the idea of a Mikoyan monument, still he says he cannot understand those who oppose the decision. One should not be afraid of a monument, Kocharyan tells ArmeniaNow. The best variant would be erecting a monument to both Mikoyan brothers (Anastas Mikoyans brother Artem was a prominent aircraft designer, who designed many of the famous MiG military aircraft). Mikoyan is a controversial character, but he is a persona of global significance, he was Chairman of the USSR, the founder of light industry, he stopped the Third World War (during the Cuban missile crisis in 1962). And if we look at the monuments that are there [in Yerevan] already now, we can say something negative about everyone, Kocharyan adds.






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