76 replies to this topic

[Takoush]

I remember when I was as young as 15 years old, I have met this guy who had a very high college education and degree; but he was an illogical person and practically useless in life. He never made anything out of his life. In the years to come I have again met such people every now and then.

On the other hand, I have known other very successful individuals who knew how to talk, how to impose upon themselves in society and they were very successful in life. One of them is one of my uncles.

I have therefore made up my mind that education gives you more intelligence, knowledge in the line of subject matter that you have chosen, to be able to perhaps get a job, in some cases a good job; but it doesn't necessarily make a person to be a smart, a self sufficient and a really successful individual in life.

These have been my observations in life.

[Vanetsi]

To put it in simpler words:

book smarts doesn't equal street smarts!

[Sip]

I think you are perhaps confusing "degrees" with "education". I fully agree that just because one has a degree, it doesn't mean one is "educated". But I would use the term educated to refer to just the kinds of people you are talking about with the example of your uncle.

[aSoldier]

So true Anahid. I contemplate a masters degree everyday

[Takoush]

I think you are perhaps confusing "degrees" with "education". I fully agree that just because one has a degree, it doesn't mean one is "educated". But I would use the term educated to refer to just the kinds of people you are talking about with the example of your uncle.

Sip; Yes, a general education rather than accumulation of degrees. A person also might not necessarily be book smart; yet he or she will absorb life and the meaning of life in its true sense and therefore would know how to live it. How to gain respect out of people, how to have the know how to impose himself and make himself to be the leader amongst the people around him.

That's what I call real smart individual.

The other is reading a great deal from several subject matters, have a general know how and understand the meaning of the said words. Like being able to read between the lines, as we have heard that expression.

Though your observation is quite right.

[Takoush]

To put it in simpler words:

book smarts doesn't equal street smarts!

Yes Vano; that's also very true, and based on what I was trying to say, that comes into the said category!!!

[armjan]

i think street smarts is totally over-rated. most street smart activities i can think of involve someone breaking the law, and as you all know, in the U.S, it's just a matta of time baby till they get ya.

[Azat]

I completely disagree. If we stop looking at the individual as one cannot make a judgement based on few individuals on one side or the other I would be willing to put LARGE about of money that more successful and smart people are educated versus uneducated/street smart. BY FAR

Seb - you should get your masters degree if you have the opportunity if for nothing else than to increase your base salary. People with advanced degrees earn MUCH more money(again we are talking averages and not individuals)

[Sip]

Armjan you brought up a VERY good point!

I have a VERY close friends that is kind "Glendeltsi". We were both at UCLA together. So obviously he is very smart etc. But he is ALWAYS trying to be "street smart". I just can't understand it. And he will almost look down on anyone that doesn't see the world as he sees it.

A case in point: He used to work at this big high tech company in the LA area. I was doing my PhD at the time. So one day I go to visit him for lunch and we go to a local Baja Fresh. Well, they had this deal for the people from his company that with their badge, the soda was free. Great. You can not imagine to what extents he went to force me to take advantage of this amazing deal. In his mind, it was completely stupid of me not to take advantage of it so he had to figure out a way to order his food, get his free soda, then sneak his badge to me, so I order my food, and get a free soda.

And of course the entire time I was like ? WHY?

Needless to say the guy working there saw him pass off his badge because both of us were acting so awekwardly and refused us the free coke. And even though I couldn't care less, he was pretty much devastated.

But it wasn't just that incident... it is also a phenomenon that is very rampant in the Glendale Armenian sub culture ... it is as if in "our" bloods to find every which way to cheat the system and abuse any and everything for personal gain. Start from free lunches at highschool cafeterias, to foodstamps and small insurance scams, ALL the way to ripping million and millions from medicare and HMOs. ... and all this, under the guise of being "street smart" (which I would call city-dumb).

And if you think the Armenians are bad ... Iranians are 10x worse.

[Azat]

Sip, I know one who is even worse than that. I have a jewish friend who always orders coke with no ice then walks back 1 minute later and asks for a glass of ice and keeps telling me that I should do the same because I should not be paying for frozen water.


Edit note: I menat to say ice and not coke the second time.

Edited by Azat, 20 April 2006 - 04:56 PM.

[Maral]

I came accross this on the internet today..seemed appropriate for this thread..

Formal education will help you develop your critical-thinking skills, but experience is the best -- and most efficient -- teacher. Dare to look foolish and ask those silly questions. You'll save yourself tons of time.

[Takoush]

Sip I hear you, though I have heard of such stories; pardon me but such as the one's that you just mentioned about Glendale Armenians. Of course NOT EVERYONE and certainly NOT MOST, but I've heard that some can be really really bad.

Well, I suppose I wasn't talking to that extreme and certainly not to steal and cheat; but more like being "achke pats". Brave and unafraid, having a great deal of confidence, grasping know how and knowledge about life and how to live their life.

I understand that in a great many cases educated people will earn more than not, but true smartness and grasping quickly is an individualistic thing. Education makes people look smarter and make them have more knowledge and so they will look and be more intelligent; but a real smart person is born smart; it's in his genes. Knowledge also will make you aware of worldly things and make you look educated but in a nut shell geniuses are born geniuses and they are not thaught to be one, and so really smart people are also born smart.

[Takoush]

Sip; that story about your smart and educated friend is whimsical, very funny actually.

Yes I agree with you of course, there is no sense of getting extra cokes; yet he feels to get extra and more thinking that he is entitled to or he actually earned it or worse yet, that he must beat the system and take advantage of it.

Though some street smart people can and do act that way; but certainly not all.

[vava]

A University education can't "teach" you negociation skills, nor sales. Two vital componenst of entrepreneurialship. I think we're defining street smarts incorrectly here - it's not about abusing systems, but rather having a keen business sense and a fundamental understanding of what makes people tick.

By all means, a university education brings with it a lot of benefits - but it is incorrect to assume that one can rely only on a degree. There is always much more to learn. Bottom line, I think you need a blend of both

Cheating is not smart, nor is it ethical - if I acquired something illegitimately, I would be loathe to use it. In my eyes, it would be tainted and I would only depress myself further with its use.

[kakachik77]

I wonder if you would talk the same way to you kid who is trying to decide to go to college or not...specially an Armenian parent

[Takoush]

A University education can't "teach" you negociation skills, nor sales. Two vital componenst of entrepreneurialship. I think we're defining street smarts incorrectly here - it's not about abusing systems, but rather having a keen business sense and a fundamental understanding of what makes people tick.

By all means, a university education brings with it a lot of benefits - but it is incorrect to assume that one can rely only on a degree. There is always much more to learn. Bottom line, I think you need a blend of both

Cheating is not smart, nor is it ethical - if I acquired something illegitimately, I would be loathe to use it. In my eyes, it would be tainted and I would only depress myself further with its use.

Of course I agree with your first statement vava. Having a sense of being able to be a fast learner in life and what makes people thrive in general. Knowing how to sell or being able to sell yourself (in short the negotiation skills) you are talking about, all true.

Although I also agree on your second paragraph; but what I was trying to pin point is the mere fact that I have seen in my life certain people that had high education but they didn't amount to much at all in life. In short, they didn't know how to apply themselves in life. Most probably as you have just mentioned; because they couldn't or didn't learn how to negotiate with people nor how to sell themselves (meaning their ideas or their work, etc. etc.) Also they didn't know how to apply what they have learned in school into their work.

In your 3rd paragraph; obviously I couldn't agree with you more as I also have said so myself above. Cheating and stealing is certainly unethical, illegal and very bad for the soul. That kind of smarts is certainly not what I was talking about; rather the smarts that people acquire by living and being into the world.

The other kind of smarts is being able to absorb what is written in the books and how you as an individual are able to comprehend the core of the situation or the problem. Having that keen and analytical mind to understand and understand beyond what is being written down. To be able to read between the lines and being able to find out what is not necessarily written down for you; but being able to make better conclusions and also having the know how of applying them in your everyday life or your profession if and when it applies.

[Takoush]

Kakachik; read my previous posts please.

I never said that education is false or not necessary.

I was merely pointing out about the mere fact that education doesn't necessarily make a smart person to be smart. Rather it makes a smart person smarter and a not so smart person perhaps look smart; but that doesn't mean that they will necessarily be able to better apply themselves in life.

I was also pointing out from some people that I have met in my life; that the real smart people are born smart. If and when they are educated, then they do become both intelligent and smarter.

[aSoldier]

I completely disagree. If we stop looking at the individual as one cannot make a judgement based on few individuals on one side or the other I would be willing to put LARGE about of money that more successful and smart people are educated versus uneducated/street smart. BY FAR

Seb - you should get your masters degree if you have the opportunity if for nothing else than to increase your base salary. People with advanced degrees earn MUCH more money(again we are talking averages and not individuals)

True.
I remember a season of "The Apprentice" where there were two groups of people, book smarts and street smarts. Ironically the final 2 consisted of one from each side. Not surprisingly the book smart won, even though the street smart was about 10 years older. The audience could see the win from a mile away.

Azat - I would reconsider looking at University as an option altogether.
Think about it: After 4 years of study, you owe 32K+.
Yet after 4 years of work, you own between 30-60K in savings. If you were smart you would turn that into a much greater amount. Now you have enough to buy an apartment, without borrowing. It's all downhill from there.
I made it look easy, but this is very possible.

[Takoush]

I came accross this on the internet today..seemed appropriate for this thread..

Formal education will help you develop your critical-thinking skills, but experience is the best -- and most efficient -- teacher. Dare to look foolish and ask those silly questions. You'll save yourself tons of time.

Maral; I kinda like what you have found out.

[vava]

Azat - I would reconsider looking at University as an option altogether.
Think about it: After 4 years of study, you owe 32K+.
Yet after 4 years of work, you own between 30-60K in savings. If you were smart you would turn that into a much greater amount. Now you have enough to buy an apartment, without borrowing. It's all downhill from there.
I made it look easy, but this is very possible.

I don't think it's very possible. Even young college graduates with degrees enter the work force at relatively low salaries. Low salaries, plus cost of living and cost of starting off on your own usually don't allow someone to save 10-15K a year.

A Canadian example: Here in Canada, the average starting salary for a university grad is between 30-40K. And if you choose a trade (like carpentry, electrician etc.) you still must apprentice on the job for years before you begin generating decent enough income to save the amounts you're talking about. So let's say 35 for the example:

Income tax off the bat will bring you down to about to about 23K. Let's say you have cheap rent at about 600$/month, that leaves you with less than 16K. You have to eat, pay your utilities, (heat, phone, insurance etc.) not to mention transportation (car, or public) clothes, home supplies, probably some entertainment expenses - and of course a computer and internet service. It certainly doesn't leave you with much. And you DON'T have a degree, you're probably starting lower than this example. So whoever told you that it's possible to save 10-15K a year by NOT going to school has probably never tried (or is living at home with Mom & Dad paying all the bills - that's not saving, that's being a dependant)