Jump to content


Photo

Like A Virgin


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 Em

Em

    Em

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,371 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 March 2009 - 11:39 AM

Jezebel is a very liberal, feminist website, based out of NY and run by (mostly) Jewish women. Today they are featuring this.... (had to share)


Like A Virgin: Armenian Inlaws Want To See Blood On The Sheets
By Sadie, 1:20 PM on Mon Mar 16 2009, 266 views In Armenia, an ancient virginity ritual, "the red apple," is getting political.

We weren't familiar with the Armenian ritual of the "red apple," in which - even today - the groom's family inspects a bridal couple's bedsheets to ascertain the bride's virginity. If the requisite virginal blood is found, tradition dictates that the groom's family send the bride a bowl of red apples. Says the OTL blog, "While not everyone practices this tradition, as there are different types of classes, families, interests and localities in Armenia, everyone knows of The Red Apple."

To mark International Women's Day, a group of women staged a "burying the red apple" march, in which they quite literally submerged a series of the symbolic objects in soil, to protest the inherent double-standard of the archaic tradition. As the Frontline Blog put it, "There is a simple argument here - either one accepts men and women are equal in dignity, or one does not. If a man is expected to lose his virginity before getting married, and a woman is supposed to keep hers, there is something fundamentally wrong and illogical." The ritual may seem archaic to us, but the march has generated controversy. Said one agitated bystander, somewhat baffingly, to a Global Voices reporter, "Let them march and the next thing you know, narcotics addicts will want to stage their own demonstrations too."

When the ritual began, the marital age was so young that the "red apple" was taken for granted, but it's dangerously anachronistic in the 21st Century. Of course, Armenia is probably more invested in preserving embattled cultural iconography than we in the U.S. can understand, given a history in which cultural identity has come under systematic attack. But it's fairly clear that this is more than a simple relic of patriarchal symbolism: the value of virginity is real. And, naturally, emblematic of larger issues. Says Frontline Club,


think the aim of the march was to raise questions regarding women's rights and their choices in general, and those issues are not really so different – the red apple is just the ceremony of celebrating no choice! because while virginity and purity may be celebrated by two lovers, i don't see what exactly is being celebrated by the neighbors, relatives, and the wider public

While some say the concern is overblown - that very few families actually hold to the tradition - a post on Armenia.newseurasia.net is eye-opening: one blogger talks about being forced to help a bride manufacture a bloodstain and a commenter adds, "I've had a number of girlfriends in Armenia intentionally bleed on the sheets on their wedding night so that their new in-laws see. Sometimes this involves cutting a finger."

Armenia: International Women's Day Action Sparks Virginity Debate [Global Voices]
The Red Apple [armenia.newseurasia.net]
Bury The Red Apple [OTL]
Burying The Red Apple [Frontline Club]






#2 Em

Em

    Em

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,371 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 March 2009 - 11:47 AM

My interest in this is that Jezebel did a considerably fair job of presenting this to their very liberal audience. Sometimes they can be outright disrespectful and disparaging of a culture's traditions and norms. I like that they provide a links and background info.

Is it a good thing that we are getting attention for these reasons? Of course, this practice is not exclusive to Armenians and that is common knowledge, so I think they are celebrating the fact that women are finally standing up and protesting an "archaic tradition".

#3 Anoushik

Anoushik

    Veteran

  • Nobility
  • 3,973 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Los Angeles
  • Interests:Armenians, music, philosophy...

Posted 16 March 2009 - 03:49 PM

I'm curious to know how common this practice really is in Armenia? Is it really that widespread? Growing up I never heard of this (granted, of course, that I left Armenia at ten) and the small number of women (of my mom's generation) who did discuss their weddings regarded such traditions with scorn and something that is reserved for the "hetamnats". Am I wrong to assume that what Jezebel is referring to is practiced only in some remote villages in Armenia?

#4 Zartonk

Zartonk

    Magnificent!

  • Moderator
  • 2,764 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Մարդկության ու ճշմարտության միջև

Posted 16 March 2009 - 06:58 PM

I wonder common this practice is as well.




#5 Harut

Harut

    Վերնագիր

  • Nobility
  • 5,734 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:հորիզոն...
  • Interests:uninterested...

Posted 16 March 2009 - 11:09 PM

QUOTE (Em)
While some say the concern is overblown - that very few families actually hold to the tradition - a
post on Armenia.newseurasia.net
is eye-opening: one blogger talks about being forced to help a bride manufacture a bloodstain and a commenter adds, "I've had a number of girlfriends in Armenia intentionally bleed on the sheets on their wedding night so that their new in-laws see. Sometimes this involves cutting a finger."


q@q@ kerel en, marseluc vaxenum en? Now this is real stupidity.

#6 Arpa

Arpa

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Culture

Posted 17 March 2009 - 10:10 AM

QUOTE (Em @ Mar 16 2009, 06:47 PM)
My interest in this is that Jezebel did a considerably fair job of presenting this to their very liberal audience. Sometimes they can be outright disrespectful and disparaging of a culture's traditions and norms. I like that they provide a links and background info.

Is it a good thing that we are getting attention for these reasons? Of course, this practice is not exclusive to Armenians and that is common knowledge, so I think they are celebrating the fact that women are finally standing up and protesting an "archaic tradition".

Is that why we sing- Khndzori tsarin tak@/Խնձորի ծառին տակը, Ես իմ եարըս սիրեցի? tongue.gif clown.gif
OK people. Please!
Let’s take a deep breath and take this whole thing with “grain of salt” or, if you wish with a “slice of apple”. smile.gif
Did that dog mehmet talaat wonder whether my, your, our mother conceive me, you and us with a "red apple" at hand, when they cut open our mother's abdomen/wombs to see if the "fruit" was male or female?? And, now we are talking about äpple"s". About our children , the fruits of our wombs, our "äpple of my eye". Please search and see what that cliche means.
We do appreciate and support those young ladies who use symbolism to declare their Liberty and Independence. See Shoushanik Kourghinian and Zabel Yasayan. Ironic? Zabe/Hezabel?
However. Some people should mind their own damn!!! business.
Before we have that “äpple” lodged in our throats and choke on it, before we turn all RED in the fsce wink.gif see where the story is coming from. JEZEBEL? Who or what the H is jezebel you may ask?
Do you know who or what jezebel, that zibil is? She, along with her husband Ahab are the most disgustingly evil people in that “book” , in a head to head race with “lilith”. In fact her name is synonymous with “ëvil”. Wonder if “monica L. had a “red apple“ in the White House“?.
Please search and find who J she is. Use “jezebel ahab”** as your keywords. Here is one among many.
http://www.aboutbibl...cy.com/p122.htm
Speaking of “dogs”. Jezebel was in fact thrown out of a window to her death and did become a “dinner” to the dogs.
http://www.hymns.me....bible-story.htm
Here is that story in Armenian;
QUOTE
30Յէուն եկաւ Յեզրայէլ։Յեզաբէլն այդ լսելով՝ իր աչքերին ծարիր քսեց, իր գլուխը զարդարեց ու նայեց պատուհանից դուրս։ 31Երբ Յէուն քաղաք էր մտնում, նա ասաց. «Մի՞թէ տիրասպան Զամբրին խաղաղութեամբ է գալիս»։ 32Յէուն իր գլուխը բարձրացնելով դէպի պատուհանը՝ ասաց. «Ո՞վ ես դու, իջի՛ր ինձ մօտ»։ Երկու ներքինիներ կռացան ու ցած նայեցին, 33եւ Յէուն ասաց նրանց. «Ցա՛ծ գցեցէք սրան»։ Ցած նետեցին այդ կնոջը. նրա արիւնը պատերի ու ձիերի վրայ ցայտեց, եւ ձիերը ոտքի կոխան արեցին նրան։ 34Յէուն մտաւ ներս եւ ուտելուց ու խմելուց յետոյ ասաց. «Վերցրէ՛ք այդ անիծեալին ու թաղեցէ՛ք նրան, քանզի թագաւորի դուստր է»։ 35Գնացին նրան թաղելու, սակայն նրանից ոչինչ չգտան, բացի գանգից, ոտքերից ու ձեռքերից, 36եւ վերադառնալով՝ այդ մասին յայտնեցին Յէուին....

**No, no. Not captain Ahab of Moby Dick. Maybe so? Why did Herman Melville choose that name for his main Character?
Mind you. The actor playing captain Ahab was the Armenian""? Grigor -I-peck-ian. : goof:
http://www.enotes.co...bydick/pictures

Edited by Arpa, 17 March 2009 - 12:06 PM.


#7 Em

Em

    Em

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,371 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 17 March 2009 - 10:35 AM

Vay Arpa. I so knew you would comment on the biblical Jezebel. It's just an article from a site wherein I was very surprised to find any mention of anything having to do with Armenians.



#8 Arpa

Arpa

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Culture

Posted 17 March 2009 - 10:48 AM

QUOTE (Em @ Mar 17 2009, 05:35 PM)
Vay Arpa. I so knew you would comment on the biblical Jezebel. It's just an article from a site wherein I was very surprised to find any mention of anything having to do with Armenians.

So you think they are sincere? They have been attacking us all over, and now they hit us "below the belt"!!!
Does "bloody (virgin) Mary"ring a bell? http://media.photobu...00x4490.jpg?o=1
THE HELL WITH JEZEBEL!!!.
Can we talk about Zabel Yesayan, Shoushanik Kurghinian and and their Soul sisters/ daughters, the likes of Shushan Avagian and..?
Yes! please. Let us talk about the subject and see the symbolism of coloring oneself with "red hënna" the night before.
QUOTE
http://www.reporter....r-the-voiceless

Shushanik Kurghinian, a voice for the voiceless
by Nyree Abrahamian
Published: Thursday March 05, 2009
Yerevan - Shushanik Kurghinian (née ­Popolchian) was a pioneer in the development of Armenian feminist and socialist poetry. She was born in 1876 in Alexandropol (present-day Gyumri), where she published her first poems and short stories. Often writing about oppressed women, prostitutes, and other neglected members of society, she gave voice to the voiceless. Kurghinian understood her role as a poet to be a profoundly political one.
In 1893, at the age of 17, she was a founding member of the first Hnchakian young women's political group in the Caucasus. At 21, she married ­Arshak Kurghinian, a businessperson and member of the socialist underground. In 1903 she planned to move to Moscow with her husband and two children to continue her education, but due to the children's poor health, the family was forced to stop in Rostov, where Kurghinian would remain for several years.
She published her first volume of poetry, Ringing of the Dawn (Arshaluysi Ghoghanjner) in 1907, in Nor Nakhichevan. A collection of new poems and older ones that had originally been published in Armenian journals, Ringing of the Dawn was a response to the Russian Revolution of 1905.
Kurghinian's health began to deteriorate in 1910. She was eventually diagnosed with a rare case of exophthalmic goiter, and for years was transferred from hospital to hospital, where she continued to write about social justice despite her pain and poor health. Her last days were spent in the Nor Malatia district of Yerevan, where she died on November 24, 1927.
Until recently, only a few of Kurghinian's poems had been translated into English and she was not known at all outside Armenian literary circles. In 2005, Shushan Avagyan, who is currently pursuing a doctoral degree at Illinois State University, published a collection of Kurghinian's poems, both in their original Armenian and English translations. The book is named after one of her most resonant poems, I Want to Live. Here are two of the poems from this collection.
The first, "I Want to Live," is a bold poem calling for social justice for women in a direct and demanding tone. The second, "The Waves," speaks symbolically about women's fight against oppressive customs and discriminatory laws. It celebrates the strength and solidarity of women and their ability to defy those laws through a collective and united struggle.
I Want to Live
I want to live, not a lavish life
trapped in obscurity, indifferent and foolish,
nor as an outright hostage of artificial beauty,
a frail creature, delicate and feeble,
but equal to you, oh men, prosperous
as you are, powerful and headstrong,
fit against calamities, ingenious in mind,
with bodies full of vigor.
I want to love, unreserved, without a mask,
self-willed like you, so that when in love
I can sing my feelings to the world
and unchain my heart, a woman's heart,
before the crowds?.?.?. ignoring their stern
judgments with my shield and destroy
the pointed arrows aimed at me
with all my vitality unrestrained!
I want to act, equal, next to you,
as a loyal member of the people,
let me suffer again and again, night or day,
wandering from one place to another,
always struggling for the ideal
of freedom?.?.?. and let this burden
torment me even in my exile,
if only I may gain a purpose in this life.
I want to eat comfortably, as you do,
from that same fair bread, for which
I gave my share of holy work;
in the struggle for existence, humble and meek,
without feeling shame, let me
shed sweat and tears for a blessed earning,
let scarlet blood flow from my worker's hands
and let my back tire in pain!
I want to fight, first as your rival,
standing against you with an old vengeance,
since absurdly and without mercy you
turned me into a vassal through love and force.
Then after clearing these disputes of my gender,
I want to fight against the agonies of life,
courageously like you, hand in hand,
facing the struggle to be or not.
(June 7, 1907)
The Waves
The waves - were accustomed to the black cliff,
the waves - curled under the shorn cliff,
always coy in their cadence,
rippling from the gusts of wind,
fondly greeted the cliff
with a bustle of an active life.
The waves - rebelled one black day,
the waves - sang an alarming song:
"Why do the first virginal rays
of dawn, so pure, descend
always upon your face?
While we, like beggars,
coiling beneath your foot,
must cheer, gasping,
with anticipation and awe,
till the sun graces us with a beam."
The waves - defiantly arose,
the waves - braced the cliff,
what hurricane, what violent storm!
With might the ether thundered,
and from the water's pounding
the cliff shook in a blast,
the waves - deluged the cliff,
the waves- caved in the cliff.
(February 18, 1908)

Copyright © 2009 Armenian Reporter | reporter.am
http://www.reporter....e-zabel-yesayan
This International Women’s Day, let’s celebrate Zabel Yesayan
by Nyree Abrahamian
Published: Thursday March 05, 2009
Yerevan - As March 8 approaches, flower vendors across Armenia prepare for one of the busiest days of the year. International Women's Day started in 1911 as a political event, a major day of global celebration for the economic, political, and social achievements of women, and recognition for their continuing struggles. It became a popular holiday, particularly in the Soviet Union, but over the years, it deviated from its social and political roots and joined the ranks of Mother's Day and Valentine's Day as a day for men to express their love for the women in their lives through flowers and chocolates.
So why, in the 21st century, has International Women's Day fizzled to a mostly superficial level in Armenia? Why has it strayed from its roots?
For Armenian women, it's easy to feel estranged from the victories and ongoing struggles of the women's movement because our mainstream culture doesn't have much to do with it. We can read Simone de Beauvoir all we want, but how do we relate her to our reality?
What many Armenians don't know, and what many intellectuals, historians, and literary critics often omit, is that feminism is a part of our culture too. And perhaps its strongest voice belongs to Zabel Yesayan, whose novels, short stories, and essays explore orientalism, exile, conflict, and love from the perspective of women.
Who is Zabel Yesayan?
Her writing is acclaimed by such critics and writers as Krikor Zohrab and Hagop Oshagan, who described her as, "the most gifted?.?.?. complete writer among Armenians." Yesayan's work is a significant contribution not only to Armenian literature, or to Armenian women's literature, but to the world literary community. Yet beyond her writing, what truly sets Yesayan apart as an important unsung hero of Armenian history is the courageous life that she led and her whole-hearted dedication to her cause. She didn't just write feminism - she lived it.
Zabel Yesayan (née Hovhannisian) was born Scutari, a district of Constantinople, in 1878. She studied in Paris at the Sorbonne, and was one of the first Armenian women of her era to study abroad. She made a name for herself by contributing poems, short stories, and essays to journals both in Armenian and French. In 1900, still a student in Paris, she married Dikran Yesayan, a photographer. They had two children, Sophie and Hrant.
In 1908, Yesayan returned to Constantinople to continue her writing career. She took young Hrant with her while Sophie remained with her husband in Paris. In 1909, she went to Cilicia to investigate the aftermath of the massacres of Adana as a member of the Constantinople Patriarchate's Commission. She chronicled the tragic stories of survivors and dedicated several works to this subject. She published a detailed report containing interviews with survivors as well as her impressions of the horrors she witnessed in a book titled, Among the Ruins, in 1911.
Zabel Yesayan was one of the Armenian intellectuals designated to be arrested by Ottoman authorities in April of 1915, but she escaped arrest and fled to Bulgaria. She lived for several years in exile, but all the while she was writing and working to help ease the suffering of her nation in any way she could. In 1917, she was in Baku, assisting in the care of Armenian refugees and orphans. Traveling through the Middle East on similar missions, Yesayan and her son were not reunited with their family in Paris until 1919.
In 1920, she went once again to Cilicia, with her two children, to help with the Armenian orphanages there. She returned to Paris in 1921, shortly after her husband's death.
During this period of exile, she wrote breakthrough works of fiction that pushed the envelope for Armenian feminist writing such as The Last Cup (1917) and My Soul in Exile (1922), and numerous appeals seeking to draw the world's attention to the plight of the survivors of the Genocide, including one of her better-known works, The Agony of a ­People (1917).
Surprisingly, she was often mocked by her contemporaries for her tireless efforts. Gostan Zarian, a distinguished Armenian poet and author, had also escaped to Bulgaria during the deportations. In his autobiographical Cities, Zarian wrote a chapter on Yesayan called, "The National ‘Turkey Hen,'" in which he focused on her physical appearance and mocked her mannerisms rather than acknowledging her work. This extract is taken from Ara Baliozian's translation of Zarian, from the book, Garden of Silihdar and Other Writings:
"She has arrived. An outlandishly tall hat on her head, a tight-fitting dress, quaintly large feet, narrow eyes - a plucked, old turkey hen who?.?.?. has fallen in the streets of Sofia and is now squawking with a shrill, ardent voice."
In 1926, Yesayan visited Soviet Armenia and was deeply moved and encouraged by her experience, finding new hope for the Armenian nation there. She published her impressions in the travelogue, Prometheus Unchained, which was widely dismissed by diasporan critics as Soviet propaganda. What they did not see was that it was not a political party or system of governance that had Yesayan enthralled, but the prospect of rebuilding a nation, and creating a brighter future for Armenians.
On her encounters with young students in the streets of Yerevan, she wrote: "It inspires extraordinary confidence in the observer. A green shoot at the side of the shriveled old trunk of the nation, that will grow, rise, and assure our survival."
In 1933, upon the invitation of the Soviet Armenian government, Yesayan left Paris for good and settled in Yerevan with her children. She taught French literature at Yerevan State University and continued to write new works, including her most popular and widely read The Gardens of Silihdar, a thinly fictionalized childhood memoir. While this book is commonly read in classrooms across the diaspora, it is rarely mentioned that she wrote it while living in Armenia, since this last, very significant chapter of her life is often completely overlooked.
In Armenia, Yesayan finally found her niche - a place where she felt she had a strong purpose, where she identified with the people and could work toward a common goal. She had grown increasingly averse to the political divisions that worked against the general good of the Armenian people in the diaspora, which is another reason why she lost the favor of many diasporan critics. But Yesayan was beyond political parties and rhetoric. She was driven by a greater cause that was at once universal and personal.
Asked by one of her students how she could suffer the inconveniences of Yerevan after the comforts of Paris, Yesayan replied flatly, "These inconveniences are meaningless in my eyes because I take an active part in building the future of our country. Does that answer your question?"
In 1936-37, during Stalin's Great Purge, several Armenian intellectuals including Yeghishe Charents, Aksel Bakunts, and Vahan Totovents were arrested, sent into exile, and killed. Yesayan was arrested, tortured, and transferred from prison to prison. Her last letter came from Baku. She died in prison, probably in 1943. The exact circumstances are unknown.

Editor's note: For a study on Yesayan by Marc Nichanian and an excellent translation by G.M. Goshgarian of an extended excerpt from In the Ruins, based on Yesayan's findings in Adana 100 years ago, see Marc Nichanian, Writers of Disaster: Armenian Literature in the Twentieth Century
vol. 1 (Princeton and London: Gomidas, 2002).

Copyright © 2009 Armenian Reporter | reporter.am

Edited by Arpa, 17 March 2009 - 12:16 PM.


#9 Em

Em

    Em

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,371 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 17 March 2009 - 10:49 AM

The practice is very common and still practiced in Armenia and in L.A.

Anoushik, I am glad that you are surrounded by progressive Armenians. smile.gif

#10 MosJan

MosJan

    Էլի ԼաՎա

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:My Little Armenia

Posted 17 March 2009 - 01:06 PM

progressive?? dra mej inch progressive ka ??
yev nayev progressive het kap chuni iys harts@ yev voch mi kerp smile.gif






#11 Nané

Nané

    Նանե

  • Nobility
  • 2,636 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Glendale

Posted 17 March 2009 - 01:11 PM

QUOTE (Em @ Mar 17 2009, 09:49 AM)
The practice is very common and still practiced in Armenia and in L.A.

Anoushik, I am glad that you are surrounded by progressive Armenians. smile.gif


I would agree, if you mean the sending of red apples. But the actual act of checking for blood on the sheets? Who does that? ohmy.gif I have not heard of such a thing.

#12 Nané

Nané

    Նանե

  • Nobility
  • 2,636 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Glendale

Posted 17 March 2009 - 01:22 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Mar 17 2009, 09:10 AM)
Is that why we sing- Khndzori tsarin tak@/Խնձորի ծառին տակը, Ես իմ եարըս սիրեցի? tongue.gif clown.gif


How funny. Vartan Petrosian was "mocking" this song during his recent performance («Սեր և Ատելություն»). He was saying how it sounds more like a military march than a love song.


#13 Em

Em

    Em

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,371 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 17 March 2009 - 03:06 PM

QUOTE (MosJan @ Mar 17 2009, 12:06 PM)
progressive?? dra mej inch progressive ka ??
yev nayev progressive het kap chuni iys harts@ yev voch mi kerp smile.gif


Movses jan, I, personally believe this practice is very outdated and belittleing to the couple involved.

I hope you understand this has nothing to do with kuysutyun but actually the practice of congratulating the bride's family and putting on a whole show. I think at this point we have all understood that the decision of sleeping with one another is a decision made by a couple and should stay amongst them. Neither side of the family has any reason to be involved in these matters or find out if they waited till the wedding night to sleep with each other.

And this practice is not a Christian one. It was adopted from our lovely Muslim neighbors. There are very many things that our religion dictates that is forgotten, or conveniently ignored-more important traditions and rituals. Maybe those can be brougt back instead of this one? smile.gif

#14 Harut

Harut

    Վերնագիր

  • Nobility
  • 5,734 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:հորիզոն...
  • Interests:uninterested...

Posted 17 March 2009 - 03:19 PM

yerexa zhamanak artasanum einq:
"karmir xndzor korcreci,
hela mta gta..."

bayc hima aveli &isht klini artasanel:
"mta hela,
karmir xndzor korcreci..."

huh.gif

#15 MosJan

MosJan

    Էլի ԼաՎա

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:My Little Armenia

Posted 17 March 2009 - 04:44 PM

EMjan
xndori depqum axhcka koghm@ shat aveli patvavorvats e linum qan t@ghayin@,

himnakanum axchjka miyr @ hayr @yev yexpaiyrner@ yete stanum en karmir xndzor da irents isk pativn e, is te t@ghayi koghm@ inchpes k@nduni yev inch k@lini da arden urish pativ e

hameniyn deps, amen mard inq@ pit voroshi te inchpes yev ur um yet e ir xndzor@ anush anum...

#16 Nané

Nané

    Նանե

  • Nobility
  • 2,636 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Glendale

Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:50 PM

QUOTE (MosJan @ Mar 17 2009, 03:44 PM)
EMjan
xndori depqum axhcka koghm@ shat aveli patvavorvats e linum qan t@ghayin@,

himnakanum axchjka miyr @ hayr @yev yexpaiyrner@ yete stanum en karmir xndzor da irents isk pativn e, is te t@ghayi koghm@ inchpes k@nduni yev inch k@lini da arden urish pativ e

hameniyn deps, amen mard inq@ pit voroshi te inchpes yev ur um yet e ir xndzor@ anush anum...


պատվավորված-մատվավորվածը չգիտեմ (էդպիսի բառ կա ՞ընդհանրապես) բայց այս ամենը ձևական երևույթ է ... և բոլորն էլ դա գիտակցում են (նույնիսկ եթե չեն արտահայտվում) ... they know it's all BS ... բայց մերոնց սովորության համաձայն ամեն ինչ արվում է կողքի աչքի համար ... իսկ ովքեր չեն ապրում կողքի աչքի համար, թքած ունեն կարմիր խնձորի վրա էլ, կանաչ տանձի վրա էլ ...

հուսով եմ պարզ է որ խոսքը գնում է «կարմիր խնձոր» տանել բերելու ավանդույթի մասին ...
նույն հաջողությամբ «ոչ-կույս» աղջկա ծնողները կարող են ստանալ բաղձալի կարմիր խնձորները և «կույս» աղջկա ծնողները կարող են ոչինչ չստանալ (կամ ասենք ստանալ կարմիր վարդեր՝ սիմվոլիկ ժեստ) wink.gif

կարծում էի այս թեման արդեն սպառվել է ֆորումի շրջանակներում բայց փաստորեն ոչ huh.gif

#17 MosJan

MosJan

    Էլի ԼաՎա

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:My Little Armenia

Posted 18 March 2009 - 01:58 AM

eh inch kuzeq aseq, meka yes im kartsiq@ chem poxum !! yev verch apricot.gif

isk - iii indz mi achqov e k@asheq ?? karroghanum em Steghtsum em apricot.gif indzi MOses Kosen en el PAsadenatsy, PArtez unem Tsirani, JAmanak chunem Qarhani....






#18 Em

Em

    Em

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,371 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 18 March 2009 - 11:13 AM

QUOTE (MosJan @ Mar 17 2009, 03:44 PM)
EMjan
xndori depqum axhcka koghm@ shat aveli patvavorvats e linum qan t@ghayin@,

himnakanum axchjka miyr @ hayr @yev yexpaiyrner@ yete stanum en karmir xndzor da irents isk pativn e, is te t@ghayi koghm@ inchpes k@nduni yev inch k@lini da arden urish pativ e

hameniyn deps, amen mard inq@ pit voroshi te inchpes yev ur um yet e ir xndzor@ anush anum...


Movses jan, Nanen shat jisht banner asec. Ir het liovin hamadzyn em.

Yes mer "kuys" aghchikneri mej hamestutyun yev MAQRUTYUN chem tesnum. Kuzen togh irenc @ntaniqner@ mi tona karmir xndzor stanan. Miayn dranov im hamar vochinch chi voroshvum. Ayl togh aghchka tsnogh@ partsena nranov vor xnaminerr@ harrsin iskapes hargum yev sirum en vorpes irenc@. Vor chen anitsum en or@ vor et aghchik@ irenc tann@ vot drec. Karcumem da aveli shat arzheq uni. Verji verjov eti mi gisherva banna, bayc lav mart linel@ da aveli dzhvar.

Noric asem. Yes shat em arzheqavorum kuysutyun@. Chem asum da vat ban e..hakarrak@ yes kasey yerevei te aveli lav liner vor mer tghanernel mi kich maqur mnayn. Bayc karcumem vor arten es "tradition@" ir zamketin e hasel.

Lav, arten shat xosaci. Naneyi asaci pes, arten jur enq tsetsum. Bayc yes noric asem yes shat em hargum en protest anogh aghchiknerin!

#19 MosJan

MosJan

    Էլի ԼաՎա

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:My Little Armenia

Posted 18 March 2009 - 12:35 PM

Em jan iyn inch du es asum liovin tarber temma e, xosq@ hents karmir xndzori maisn e, yev voch mij xnamineri haraberutyuneri masin...

axchiknerin ov protest en anum, ? iysinqn ?? n@ranq ov dem en karmir xndzorin te koghm en ??


janik amen mard ir @entrutyun @uni, irenits e kaxvats te inch e anelu yev icnhpes, yek toghnenq togh amen mard inq@ voroshi, yev voch tev tikunq kangnenq n@ranst ov der tarakusum e te pahi ir xndzor@ te voch,

heto et xndzorn el exparation date uni;) yete 30 + tarekan e arden xndzori xosaqtsutyun@ etqan el karrevor che , isk aveli poqer hasakum da arden urish harts e shateri hamar...

PS. es topic@ t@gherqi xndzori masin che smile.gif or du tgherqi maqrutyan masin es xosum smile.gif



#20 Zartonk

Zartonk

    Magnificent!

  • Moderator
  • 2,764 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Մարդկության ու ճշմարտության միջև

Posted 04 April 2009 - 03:16 PM

2009 Red Apple March

Edited by Zartonk, 04 April 2009 - 03:16 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users