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#21 Takoush

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 12:00 AM

For the above post, I of course meant hopefully within ten years we can have a woman for an Armenian president. wink.gif

#22 Anoushik

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 01:27 AM

QUOTE(Anahid Takouhi @ Dec 3 2006, 09:54 AM) View Post
Baron Yervant:

You seem to forget that there are other women on the Forum too.

I'd certainly vote for Anoushik. smile.gif

She is young, pretty, nice and smart. smile.gif

Wow, thanks for the vote of confidence smile.gif

I wouldn't make a good president though; I'm hardly around. I guess I could make you a vice president and you could lead instead of me tongue.gif Not unlike the situation with our U.S. president tongue.gif

#23 Takoush

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 09:46 AM

QUOTE(anoushik @ Dec 5 2006, 02:27 AM) View Post
Wow, thanks for the vote of confidence smile.gif

I wouldn't make a good president though; I'm hardly around. I guess I could make you a vice president and you could lead instead of me tongue.gif Not unlike the situation with our U.S. president tongue.gif

Whatever you say Anoushik jan; I'll work for you and with you. No problem. smile.gif

But when I voted for you I didn't vote just because you're pretty, although you are; but because you're young and also because you are smart. smile.gif

#24 Eurocentric

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 12:30 PM

Until the Turko-Islamic "adat"'s are eliminated from Armenian society entirely, dream on...

#25 kakachik77

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 01:02 PM

QUOTE(Eurocentric @ Dec 5 2006, 01:30 PM) View Post
Until the Turko-Islamic "adat"'s are eliminated from Armenian society entirely, dream on...


Turkey had a female premier though and Pakistan an Islamic country has Benazir Bhutto, a female premier as well, so the problem is not Turkish or Islamic but rather Russian-influenced (where are those "civilized" Russia's female politicians?)

Edited by kakachik77, 05 December 2006 - 01:06 PM.


#26 Eurocentric

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 01:56 PM

QUOTE(kakachik77 @ Dec 5 2006, 02:02 PM) View Post
Turkey had a female premier though and Pakistan an Islamic country has Benazir Bhutto, a female premier as well, so the problem is not Turkish or Islamic but rather Russian-influenced (where are those "civilized" Russia's female politicians?)


Turkey has an uber secular government, so does Pakistan to a lesser extent. Armenia and Russia are secular on paper only. Why don't you got to a remote Russian or Armenian village, spend a day or to and then try the same thing in Pakistan or Turkey mad.gif
Overall the situation outside the government is not comparable. Russian society is more open towards women as equals than Armenia btw.

#27 Takoush

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 02:38 AM

QUOTE(Eurocentric @ Dec 5 2006, 02:56 PM) View Post
Russian society is more open towards women as equals than Armenia btw.


This I believe. With all the things we're hearing about a great deal of women being treated in there. I am glad they are beginning to help the women.

#28 DominO

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 09:26 PM

The reason is simply explained by evolution (natural selection).

Male dominance in politic is a carbon copy of what you find in nature. For various reasons such as co-evolutionary intraspecific and intra and interasexual competition, the political system had been a more 'civilised' form of social structure in nature. We must give time to the psycho evolution to correct what physio evolution has imposed us. Women in politic is another beautiful example of humanities adaptation, from the more brute state to a more advanced civilisation.


QUOTE(SanVal @ Dec 4 2006, 08:59 PM) View Post
What I meant by my comment above is that I don't think women in Armenia are taken as seriously as men. I don't see how that can be interpreted as a comment about the intelligence of Armenian women. It was a comment about how they're perceived.

And there's something very wrong about simply counting the number of women in politics. There have been women in politics, but to see if there's some semblance of equality, I would need to know how they got there. For example, Pakistan has had a woman prime minister (Benazir Bhutto), but she was the daughter of someone famous. Similarly, as much as I respect Aung San Suu Kyi (from Burma), she, too, is the daughter of someone very famous in her country. There have also been women in Venezuelan politics, but many of them got there because they had been beauty queens and had participated in Miss Universe. And let's mention our own American Hilary Rodham Clinton...I seriously doubt she would've made it this far had she been known as Hilary Rodham and had not been the victim of her husband's philandering.

In any country, until there is a sizeable group of women who have made it on their own--and didn't get support by virtue of being someone's daughter or wife, or because of their looks or charm--there's no reason to think anything significant has occurred.

I also don't think that Armenian men should be blamed for everything. Many of the problems stem from Armenian women's own beliefs about gander and how things should be. There are still women there who think their husbands don't love them if they don't beat them.

Another major problem with women everywhere is that women don't stick together. You can have a social experiment in any country and put a group of women together and do the same with men, and I'm certain there'll be more name-calling and cat fights in the women's group. The jealousy streak does enough to keep women from bonding together to achieve what they want, and it's something men can use to their advantage.

Edited by QueBeceR, 23 December 2006 - 09:29 PM.


#29 nairi

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 10:11 PM

QUOTE(QueBeceR @ Dec 24 2006, 04:26 AM) View Post
The reason is simply explained by evolution (natural selection).

Male dominance in politic is a carbon copy of what you find in nature. For various reasons such as co-evolutionary intraspecific and intra and interasexual competition, the political system had been a more 'civilised' form of social structure in nature. We must give time to the psycho evolution to correct what physio evolution has imposed us. Women in politic is another beautiful example of humanities adaptation, from the more brute state to a more advanced civilisation.


There are groups of baboons or apes, or whatever, that have a matriarchal society. Other feminists would claim that the reason we have a patriarchal society is to ensure that women are available for sex whenever men need it (and we know how often men need sex!). As soon as women would take control over the situation, that is, control when men can get some and when not, all hell will break loose for men. On the other hand, many women already control the situation. A mere "I have a headache" or "Yes, hon, I'm having my period again" does the trick just as well. Not to mention that in many homes, including Armenian ones, it's the wife who's the head of the house.

#30 DominO

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 12:00 AM

QUOTE(nairi @ Dec 23 2006, 11:11 PM) View Post
There are groups of baboons or apes, or whatever, that have a matriarchal society. Other feminists would claim that the reason we have a patriarchal society is to ensure that women are available for sex whenever men need it (and we know how often men need sex!). As soon as women would take control over the situation, that is, control when men can get some and when not, all hell will break loose for men. On the other hand, many women already control the situation. A mere "I have a headache" or "Yes, hon, I'm having my period again" does the trick just as well. Not to mention that in many homes, including Armenian ones, it's the wife who's the head of the house.


Yes and no, matriarchal society is of a hiearchical society, not exactly what I had in mind. True about the sexual part, this was the reason why I brough the inter and intra sexual competition.

#31 SanVal

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 02:39 AM

Men and women will Never be equal; we can only try to come close. The main reason is pregnancy. As long as women are the only ones who get pregnant, women will be disadvantaged.

In the legal field, for example, some "progressive" law firms allow women to take time off to have babies and the time they take off counts toward the number of years it takes to become a partner. I had a conversation about this with one male senior associate, and I empathized with him when he complained that the time a woman at his law firm spends giving birth and breastfeeding is considered to be the same as what he's doing (going to work and using his brain).

At the other end of the spectrum is not taking a woman's pregnancy into account and not even trying to accomodate her, thereby encouraging her to quit her job or work part-time if she gets preganant.

I can't even think of a middle ground that would be fair to both men and women.

#32 DominO

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 10:02 AM

QUOTE(SanVal @ Dec 24 2006, 03:39 AM) View Post
Men and women will Never be equal; we can only try to come close. The main reason is pregnancy. As long as women are the only ones who get pregnant, women will be disadvantaged.

In the legal field, for example, some "progressive" law firms allow women to take time off to have babies and the time they take off counts toward the number of years it takes to become a partner. I had a conversation about this with one male senior associate, and I empathized with him when he complained that the time a woman at his law firm spends giving birth and breastfeeding is considered to be the same as what he's doing (going to work and using his brain).

At the other end of the spectrum is not taking a woman's pregnancy into account and not even trying to accomodate her, thereby encouraging her to quit her job or work part-time if she gets preganant.

I can't even think of a middle ground that would be fair to both men and women.


Equality only apply in term of law, not biology. You can not claim an apple to be equal to an orange. Neither is superior one from the other, they are simply different.

Women are made stronger(less fatal diseases) to compensate for pregnancy, one of the reasons why in our society now they live longer than men, because they have less children.

Are men advantaged in our society? Yes! but nothing is perfect, time is the only solution.

#33 Verginne

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 12:40 PM

Personally, I think it's very rare for a woman to do well in a leadership/politcal role.

If you have ever worked for a woman boss/supervisor, you know what I mean. God save us from women bosses and supervisors. Sorry ladies.

#34 Takoush

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 09:29 PM

QUOTE(Verginne @ Jan 2 2007, 01:40 PM) View Post
Personally, I think it's very rare for a woman to do well in a leadership/politcal role.

If you have ever worked for a woman boss/supervisor, you know what I mean. God save us from women bosses and supervisors. Sorry ladies.

Hye there Verginne; You can only look at Mrs. Clinton; I am sorry but she is not liked by New Yorkers and she is given a name that as a lady I do not wish to repeat it.

Nevertheless I agree with the fact that they are usually not very pleasant to work for. I have encountered some of them a few times and forget it, those women bosses were not pleasant to work for.

#35 Arpa

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 09:49 AM

http://search.hp.net.....menianow.com/
Once again ArmeniaNow has devoted most of this issue to Gender Issues.Why not?
After all, women are our mothers and as such most of them have that mother instinct to protect and nurture their offspring.
Pleae Yervant and others. Yes, we know Maral is fit ot be our queen, just as Anahit and Anoushik. Did I leave anyone out? Nairi?
Please, let us address the issue at hand and think of our mothers, wives, sisters and daughters.
Is it because their genitals are grown inward rather than out. Where would you be without thiose inward genitals? And that their chests, a symbol of nurturing are more ample than ours? When is the time you or me breats fed, nurtured our child and sang lullabies to them?
How is their brains any different?
And, as an aside. MosJan see what is happening to the Apricot.apricot.gif Where are you getting your juice from? smile.gif huh.gif
The next time you spot these at the store, read the label and see where they are from.
http://www.walgreens...p;id=prod362477

Edited by Arpa, 23 June 2007 - 11:52 AM.


#36 MosJan

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 11:14 AM

getting your juice from smile.gif up till a week ago it was home made smile.gif now it will be NOY apricot.gif Armenia

#37 Yervant1

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 04:03 PM

All my life I have been an advocate of women's rights and for gender equality and representation, but I'm dead against those female activists who in the process do more harm than good by trying to tilt the equilibrium. Who says that two wrongs make it right.
Gender equality starts at home but what I find in some homes even nowadays that some mothers treat their sons and daughters differently knowing well that they hated themselves growing up.
It is still greatly practiced in most homes that at dinner before and after girls do the most and boys are discouraged from that activity, some even proclaim that it's a girl's job to do that and mothers are equally guilty in this.
I just gave this example to start this topic and let us talk about it and give out suggestions as to how we can bridge this gap and give our mothers, wives, sisters and daughters the equaliy that they should have had since the dawn of civilisation in every aspect of life.
Long live our equals. cheers.gif Let's treat all of our females as queens.

Edited by Yervant1, 23 June 2007 - 04:03 PM.


#38 Takoush

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 04:22 PM

QUOTE(Yervant1 @ Jun 23 2007, 06:03 PM) View Post
All my life I have been an advocate of women's rights and for gender equality and representation, but I'm dead against those female activists who in the process do more harm than good by trying to tilt the equilibrium. Who says that two wrongs make it right.
Gender equality starts at home but what I find in some homes even nowadays that some mothers treat their sons and daughters differently knowing well that they hated themselves growing up.
It is still greatly practiced in most homes that at dinner before and after girls do the most and boys are discouraged from that activity, some even proclaim that it's a girl's job to do that and mothers are equally guilty in this.
I just gave this example to start this topic and let us talk about it and give out suggestions as to how we can bridge this gap and give our mothers, wives, sisters and daughters the equaliy that they should have had since the dawn of civilisation in every aspect of life.
Long live our equals. cheers.gif Let's treat all of our females as queens.

Dear Yervant that's very nice and open minded of you. I fully respect your sound reasonings. smile.gif

The thing is that I only have a daughter; but if I also had a son, I surely would have treated them as equals. smile.gif





#39 Arpa

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 06:36 PM

QUOTE(Yervant1 @ Jun 23 2007, 10:03 PM) View Post
All my life I have been an advocate of women's rights and for gender equality and representation, but I'm dead against those female activists who in the process do more harm than good by trying to tilt the equilibrium. Who says that two wrongs make it right.
===
Gender equality starts at home but what I find in some homes even nowadays that some mothers treat their sons

Yes, Yervant. Of course. We don’t want to start another war. As is, we have so many already.
We don’t want to politicize gender issues. Just as we may in the midst of such “wars”. What with gender issues in the so called most civilized countries. Equal rights, race issues , equal pay for comparable jobs etc. Yet, we know that many of those struggles were not only politicized but they also took violent action. Among which all the revolutions,. To mention a few. The American revolution, the French, the Bolshevik, and the violent racial riots. We also know that all the liberties and equalities we enjoy now were stained with much blood.
Look what Hsmik of Gyumri says about “women shaking their fists”.
And, don’t forget. When you open the site; http://search.hp.net.....menianow.com/ Click on “follow up” a the right margin and see the list of countries. Note numbers 70, 124 and 127. Not to overlook that Rwanda is at the top of the list with some 48% female legislators.
In the Wings: In politics, as in society, Armenian women await their time By Marianna Grigoryan
One of the well-known and respected women of Gyumri, Hasmik Kirakosyan, who has for years taken an active part in the region’s public and political life, gives assurances that she doesn’t like when a woman is engaged in politics.
{ai229601.jpg|left}“It is unpleasant for me when forgetting her femininity a woman shakes her fists in public towards someone. A woman must remain a woman, even in the fiercest political struggle,” says Kirakosyan, who is herself a mother of two married daughters and a grandmother of three and is considered to be one of the most active women in her region capable of successfully solving problems whenever necessary.
Kirakosyan, 65, is Head of the Department of Culture at the Shirak Regional Governor’s Office. Several years ago, in 1999, she entered politics, contesting the mayor’s post in Gyumri.
Kirakosyan remembers that she wasn’t saddened by her defeat to the male candidate, because she understands that a male leader was more needed for a city full of problems.
“I would have gone down, I would have ruined my health within just a year, because Gyumri had so many problems that it would be very difficult for me to achieve something with a woman’s cry and struggle,” she says.
But is it always so that women who step into politics are guided by a “woman’s cry”?
In Armenia’s political life where the role of women is low by every international measure, women engaged in the “struggle” typically rely on perceived traditional masculine traits to survive. They do are often, in fact, compelled to shake their fists – if only metaphorically.
“My tenderness is for my family. When I speak about entangled problems of the country, I forget that I am a woman, this is my work,” says Orinats Yerkir vice-chairwoman, veteran lawmaker Heghine Bisharyan.
Several international organizations that have been carrying out different gender programs in Armenia in recent years say that “women’s fists” in Armenian politics and generally in public life can have a greater role, directly influencing the country’s further development.
{ai229602.jpg|right}According to research by international experts, women can have a serious contribution to politics as they are quite an able force and consider problems from other perspectives, which is particularly needed for politics.
But how ready is our society to accept a new, female perspective of things and to see new qualities?
The answer is reflected in a seasoned anecdote:
One Armenian man says to another: “My wife just had a baby.”
“Was it a boy?”, the second man asks.
“No,” says the new father.
“Then what was it? . . .”
According to stereotyped opinions in society, women’s time has not yet come in Armenia, and gender problems are artificial and imported.
President of the Sociometer independent sociological center Aharon Adibekyan says that the attitude has deep-rooted causes.
According to the regarded sociologist, the place and role of a woman in Armenian culture is distinguished by several principles. Along with other gender-biased attitudes, an Armenian woman is considered as second-class, junior and less perfect – one who needs the protection and guidance of a man.
“The relationship of sexes remains a universal tenet of any culture, and any attempt of radical achievement of gender equality eventually leads to the impossible – the need to reform the model of culture by means of the culture itself,” Adibekyan says. “We remain a country having a tradition-based culture and in that cultural system a woman has her place and a man his. Like we don’t imagine an Armenian man doing the laundry, the very same way women are unacceptable for society in many circumstances.”
However, according to Adibekyan, as the observations of recent years show, many young husbands are trying to overcome these stereotypes and, away from view of neighbors and relatives, help their wives do the washing. Similarly in society the attitude is gradually changing.
{ai229604.jpg|left}Women, though, must first change for themselves.
Alvard Petrosyan, writer and publicist, and a re-elected Member of Parliament, says that she continues to see in women’s eyes the look of denial towards women who have embarked on a politician’s career.
Studies show that the negative looks are more than it is believed. The Armenian society is not so much ready to see an Armenian woman outside family and her kitchen, especially in our rude political struggle.
According to the study of Sociometer center, out of 1,650 respondents throughout Armenia, 40 percent think that men are more suitable for this work. 29.7 percent of respondents think that women lack required qualities to be engaged in politics.
“Customs are deeply rooted,” Petrosyan says. “Our women still don’t understand that a woman standing next to a man may be stronger and cleverer than he.”

Edited by Arpa, 23 June 2007 - 07:11 PM.


#40 Takoush

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 10:02 PM

Quite unfortunate that our backward gender issues and ways are derived by our backward part Mongolian Asiatic, part Iranian "Barsig", and part Arabic influences of our neighbours throughout the years.

I honestly and thruthfully think that if we had different predicament and neighbours; today we would have had regarded women much more like the Westerners and the Europeans do, more like a man's equal.

It is up to the younger generation of Armenians who are parents to start changing it now. As it starts from home. If every mother and every father start regarding their offspring girls as first class citizens instead of second class, hopefully in about 10-20 years or sooner the gender issues will minimize and we'll also regard women equal to men.





Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 23 June 2007 - 10:14 PM.





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