105 replies to this topic

[Arvestaked]

...recourse...

That is almost insulting. It is not inferior to exercise the convenience of bottling one's personal conclusions into a pre-existing form.

[Armen]

I did not profess any "knowledge" of a god, neither use the term ignorance where it does not fit, I refer here to the thread in which both of us participated, and where I developped regarding the term knowledge in what regard a god.

QB, there are many posts and many opinions I find wrong. Most of us have changed our opinions about this subject and moved towards the mean from both sides, the mean being: we don't know anything about the creation of universe and none of the "camps" can explain it.

If you have some specific definition of knowledge you want Sasun to conform to ... discuss with him. There has always been inconsiderate attitude from the other camp. You want me to start complaining? There has been lot of inconsiderate attitude towards Sasun as well. I think at some point he may find OK to give some of it back.

I don't call the feeling I get from spiritual cognition "knowledge". There is a word in Armenian that describes this: "veraprum" (reliving?). It does not have an exact equivalent in English.

Edited by Armen, 25 February 2005 - 05:43 PM.

[DominO]

QB, there are many posts and many opinions I find wrong. Most of us have changed our opinions about this subject and moved towards the mean from both sides, the mean being: we don't know anything about the creation of universe and none of the "camps" can explain it.

If you have some specific definition of knowledge you want Sasun to conform to ... discuss with him. There has always been inconsiderate attitude from the other camp. You want me to start complaining? There has been lot of inconsiderate attitude towards Sasun as well. I think at some point he may find OK to give some of it back.

I don't call the feeling I get from spiritual cognition "knowledge". There is a word in Armenian that describes this: "veraprum" (reliving?). It does not have an exact equivalent in English.

Discussing with Sasun? I won`t waste my time trying to make him understand what the word knowledge mean, I still am disgusted of his support for a schizoaffective criminal figure whom has abused countless numbers of women, and implied the victims to be liars, I still didn`t digested that pill...

What strong argument has he brought, show me because unfortunitly I don`t see any... I don`t see how claiming how others are ignorant and how he was like them in the past is a strong argument, I don`t see how shouting the word knowledge is a strong argument.

"Most of us," doesn`t include me, and I dought that most have changed their minds, Solaris from the start has admitted to me that taking a position was not a good thing... while Sasun profess a knowledge that can not be one.

As for the creation of the universe, we don`t know anything from the point of view of someone that think that there should be "why" in everything, the day you start concluding that a "why" is not a must, you will see things compleatly differently.

Edited by QueBeceR, 25 February 2005 - 11:00 PM.

[DominO]

Follow the Frenchman in the Matrix when he talk about human needing "purpouses."

[DominO]

Oh, BTW, that`s my position.

http://www.quantum.u...r/philosop.html

EDIT: Oups, posted the wrong article, I will leave it there, because I think it`s still an interesting read.

Edited by QueBeceR, 25 February 2005 - 11:25 PM.

[Armen]

Discussing with Sasun? I won`t waste my time trying to make him understand what the word knowledge mean, I still am disgusted of his support for a schizoaffective criminal figure whom has abused countless numbers of women, and implied the victims to be liars, I still didn`t digested that pill...

What strong argument has he brought, show me because unfortunitly I don`t see any... I don`t see how claiming how others are ignorant and how he was like them in the past is a strong argument, I don`t see how shouting the word knowledge is a strong argument.

QB, I don't have sufficient information on Sri Chinmoy to discuss this. But sometimes you make claims based on biased information, like you did in case of "Steiner is a nazi", which was some web-based slander (which as you may know is all over the place). You did not even care to read what he himself had to say on the subject. I don't know... Maybe you display the same attitude towards Sri?

QB, there are many scientists and phylosophers with interesting behaviour, and I believe if we search we will find out that some very famous of them displayed schizo behaviour.

As for the creation of the universe, we don`t know anything from the point of view of someone that think that there should be "why" in everything, the day you start concluding that a "why" is not a must, you will see things compleatly differently.

QB, how do you expect me to answer this?

WHY, WHY, WHY!!!

[Sasun]

Discussing with Sasun? I won`t waste my time trying to make him understand what the word knowledge mean

Hmm... then stop stalking me in every thread! I have been ignoring you, and I will be ignoring...

[DominO]

Armen, I don`t remember saying he was a NAZI, Steiner ideology has a racial characterization similair to those that the NAZI had. This reincarnation from Blacks to more evolved "races" is purly racistic in its true sense of the term, and anyone proposing such a thing for me is a fraud.

As for Chinmoy, I said everything I had to say, those claiming to be victims are in the dozens, and they display the typical psychological behavour of raped and harassed women... I have no reason to attack someone like this. Chinmoy has lied in countless numbers of occasions with his lift stories, and his purity, there are even witnesses telling how unhonest he was in his vegetarism. But of course I got cursed by Mr. Sasun that is ignoring me from the day I have decided that hyeforum was not a place to make publicity for someone that take women as objects and kill psychologicaly peoples. I have read enough material to recognise the same methods and materns of denials used by the Turks to deny the genocide.

But of course, Sasun can shout "I have grown" all he want... I was about to ask one of the victims with whom I have entered in contact to come at hyeforum and discuss about her cases, but since Mr. Chinmoy has a history of spamming the web and closing sites with the many best lawyers money can get(paying them with the money his brainwashed disciples give to him), he would probably either ask his men to spam this forum with their trash or threatning with legal actions, so I changed my mind.

If you want, I can even help you to directly enter in contact with some of the victims(even by phone).

[DominO]

Hmm... then stop stalking me in every thread! I have been ignoring you, and I will be ignoring...

Like I care.

Ladies and gentlmen, Sasun is ignoring me, since the day I have exposed Chinmoy his Guru.

[Armen]

Armen, I don`t remember saying he was a NAZI, Steiner ideology has a racial characterization similair to those that the NAZI had.

http://hyeforum.com/...ndpost&p=113122

QB, if you want I can provide you some info about what Hiler had to say about the anthoposophophists and Steiner and how anthroposophists were persecuted as "the friends of the Jews" and the pacifists.

This reincarnation from Blacks to more evolved "races" is purly racistic in its true sense of the term, and anyone proposing such a thing for me is a fraud.

It has nothing to do with racism. It says that the first Lemurean race were the blacks and no other races existed at that time (actually there is a fairly similar claim in anthropology). It was a civilisation that had its peak and destruction. Similar to Atlantis, the civilisation of the Yellow race. The fact that he says that the "carrier" of the present civilisation are the White does not have any racial characteristics. Can you deny that the white people, because of some objective and subjective reasons, play a crucial role now? Aren't the Whites the contradiction of present civilisation: both the "creators" and the "destroyers"?

QB, talking about races does not make you a racist authomatically. Don't be so careful when talking about races. It develops a reverse political superstition.

Edited by Armen, 26 February 2005 - 12:44 AM.

[Stormig]

You're basically saying that there may be people like Bush who say they are Christians. So? There are many.

I had no idea Bush was a scientist.

[Armen]

I had no idea Bush was a scientist.

Oh, believe me he is. He invented the nukiller weapons

What's your point Stormy?

[Stormig]

Oh, believe me he is. He invented the nukiller weapons 

What's your point Stormy?

I thought we were talking about scientists. My point is that what scientists believe in personally matters not. Not their religion, not their thoughts on the other sex, not their racial opinions, not their ideologies. Capisci?

[Armen]

I thought we were talking about scientists. My point is that what scientists believe in personally matters not. Not their religion, not their thoughts on the other sex, not their racial opinions, not their ideologies. Capisci?

That point was already made several times. It does not matter for you. It matters for me. And for me it does not matter what you think more than what they think. Capisci?

[Stormig]

That point was already made several times. It does not matter for you. It matters for me. And for me it does not matter what you think more than what they think. Capisci?

Is that how fads are born?

[Armen]

Is that how fads are born?

What's "a fad"? Use human English please.

[DominO]

http://hyeforum.com/...ndpost&p=113122

QB, if you want I can provide you some info about what Hiler had to say about the anthoposophophists and Steiner and how anthroposophists were persecuted as "the friends of the Jews" and the pacifists.
It has nothing to do with racism. It says that the first Lemurean race were the blacks and no other races existed at that time (actually there is a fairly similar claim in anthropology).  It was a civilisation that had its peak and destruction. Similar to Atlantis, the civilisation of the Yellow race. The fact that he says that the "carrier" of the present civilisation are the White does not have any racial characteristics. Can you deny that the white people, because of some objective and subjective reasons, play a crucial role now? Aren't the Whites the contradiction of present civilisation: both the "creators" and the "destroyers"?

QB, talking about races does not make you a racist authomatically. Don't be so careful when talking about races. It develops a reverse political superstition.

The link you provide doesn't show me any of my posts in which I have claimed Steiner to be a NAZI.

The rest is explained quite well here.

http://www.stelling....cism.htm#racism

[Armen]

The link you provide doesn't show me any of my posts in which I have claimed Steiner to be a NAZI.

You claimed that:

"Anthroposophy was even one of the originel mythologic NAZI myths from where the NAZI race ideologies were derived from."

This is slander and absurdity. Anthroposophy has never ever said anything about stripping races of their political rights, let alone killing someone because of his/her race.

The rest is explained quite well here.
http://www.stelling....cism.htm#racism

This is some polemics between a person named Peter Normann Waage (who tries to defend anthroposophical position from his point of view) and persons named Peter Staudenmaier and Peter Zegers (who criticise his arguments).

Mr. Waage does not represent anthroposophy is any capacity. If fact no one does. Maybe Mr. Waage was paid to misrepresent anthroposophy so that it was criticised. Who knows ...

I can give you similar kind of cheap link that answers that criticism by Staudenmaier and Zegers but I don't like your "Internet war" kind of stuff. If you want to know something go find and read it.

The fact is, that there is no such thing as anthroposophical Nazism. You don't have this in nature. No Nazi has ever refered to anthroposophy as Communists referd to Marx etc. You do not have any examples of political discrimination by its followers.

Let me ask you question QB. Do you think of racism when you see "White men can't jump" on NBA all the time? Can you jump like the black people do?

Go sue NBA.

Edited by Armen, 26 February 2005 - 05:10 PM.

[DominO]

Armen, stop this BS of asking me to read about it. I have, my knowledge of the man doesn't end with the web.

The reason why Anthroposophist were targeted during the NAZI era had to do with the fact that Hitler feared Steiners mystic society that was in competition with his. There are evidences that Hitler knew about him back in his years in prison. Now try to find those informations from the web if you can. Hitler was as deluded as Steiner, and the NAZI ideology was the result of a German movement back those years that has brought Anthroposophist. In the 20s, the NAZI tried to sabotage Steiners movement to replace it.

The NAZI mystic society was largely inspired by Steiner, Hausher, Fritsche etc, it was people like Steiner that permitted the “NAZIfication” of Germany. Read about what Steiner had to say about Germany in comparaison to other nations in “The Destinies of Individuals and of Nations.” Compare his theories of the living space with Rosenberg the NAZI chief ideologist. Even the NAZI theory of the Jews “worthlessness” had its equivalent with Steiners ideologies regarding the Jews. It was him that claimed that the “Jewish race” job was done, and that the divine plan was the death of that race.

Stop finding conspirations to downgrade anthrosophists, there is none. Only the fact that he considered blue eye blonds superiors and believed in the Aryan race is enough to classify him as a racist.

As for the NBA, I have discussed about this whole issue in the other forum with Mouse and Dan when they have brought the race crap. I have written thousands of words and posted bunch of materials, I will not start that again, go and read what I have to say about it. I can care less of what ignorants say at the NBA, when they start writing books about rational superiorities like Mr. Steiner did, then I will answer them back.

If it is a “Germanic” Christian metaphysicist you are after, I told you before, Karl Jaspers is the man. http://www.mythosand...om/Jaspers.html

I still wonder, why people are always attracted by frauds, when there are really truly great men.

PS: I don't see still where I have claimed he was a NAZI.

Edited by QueBeceR, 26 February 2005 - 06:14 PM.

[Armen]

The reason why Anthroposophist were targeted during the NAZI era had to do with the fact that Hitler feared Steiners mystic society that was in competition with his. There are evidences that Hitler knew about him back in his years in prison. Now try to find those informations from the web if you can. Hitler was as deluded as Steiner, and the NAZI ideology was the result of a German movement back those years that has brought Anthroposophist. In the 20s, the NAZI tried to sabotage Steiners movement to replace it.

QB, you have a fundamental flaw in understanding what constitutes something "political" (racist) and what does not constitute it. Racism is connected with human being's equal rights to live etc. etc.

Do you have ANY information that Anthroposopist movement has EVER establishes any enforcement mechanizm, like the NAZI beating groups in the first stages, then party police, then the death squads. Was there ANY enforcement on their part? No there was not. So, how were they IN COMPETITION? Would you ever COMPETE like that for power, without ANY means to gain power? Give me a break!

Your claim that there were NAZIs who assosiated themselves with the movement is absurdity. It is like saying that KIM IL SUNG is a democrat because North Korea is People's Democratic Republic and that he was inspired by renowned democrats.

The NAZI mystic society was largely inspired by Steiner, Hausher, Fritsche etc, it was people like Steiner that permitted the “NAZIfication” of Germany. Read about what Steiner had to say about Germany in comparaison to other nations in “The Destinies of Individuals and of Nations.” Compare his theories of the living space with Rosenberg the NAZI chief ideologist. Even the NAZI theory of the Jews “worthlessness” had its equivalent with Steiners ideologies regarding the Jews. It was him that claimed that the “Jewish race” job was done, and that the divine plan was the death of that race.

What?! Steiner died in 1925. He has lectured intensively both to prevent WW1 and the comming of Nazism.

He was refering to the Old Testament (Tora etc.) when he spoke about it, not Jews as people. What Rosenberg understood is completely irrelevant here because that way you can say that the New Testament of Bible is "an order to kill Jews". Are there people who understand Bible like that? Yes there are plenty. But does Bible say that? No way!

You want to know who created Hitler. Consider those who financed his industrial projects.

Do you know that Waldorfian schools were the first to establish back-white schools in South Africa during the worst years of Apartheid?

Stop finding conspirations to downgrade anthrosophists, there is none. Only the fact that he considered blue eye blonds superiors and believed in the Aryan race is enough to classify him as a racist.

There is no other way to talk with you. Here is that Waager's reply to that Studemaier: http://uncletaz.com/...agenglish1.html

As for the NBA, I have discussed about this whole issue in the other forum with Mouse and Dan when they have brought the race crap. I have written thousands of words and posted bunch of materials, I will not start that again, go and read what I have to say about it. I can care less of what ignorants say at the NBA, when they start writing books about rational superiorities like Mr. Steiner did, then I will answer them back.

Steiner did not claim superiority. He pointed out differences.

Interesting, you care about books but when it happens in real life you don't care. Bravo.

If it is a “Germanic” Christian metaphysicist you are after, I told you before, Karl Jaspers is the man. http://www.mythosand...om/Jaspers.html
I still wonder, why people are always attracted by frauds, when there are really truly great men.
PS: I don't see still where I have claimed he was a NAZI.

I will read him but upi have to stop your attempts to link Nazi ideology with Steiner. There is no such a link.