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Akhtamar Church In Ruins


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#1 nairi

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 02:08 PM

CULTURE & SOCIETY
05.17.2004 Monday

Akdamar Church in Ruins

Famous for its 10th century Church of the Holy Cross, the Akdamar Church on the island of Akdamar in Lake Van's is almost in ruins.

The church, which is visited by many foreign tourists, is worn out and close to ruins. The church has been neglected and harmed by treasure hunters and at risk of collapsing. Both its foundation and ceiling have cracks and holes.

The City of Van's Culture and Tourism Province Director, Bilal Sonmez, told Zaman that a project for the preservation of the historical identity of the church is already being prepared. Sonmez said that the issue has already been transferred to the Culture and Nature Assets Council and that the directorate is waiting for a decision.

Erdogan Acar, a tourist at the church, said that he was nervous to walk around inside the church because of its near ruined condition. He added, "We could prove that we are a great nation if we claim our historical heritage."



14.05.2004


05.14.2004
Ahmet άnal
Van

http://www.zaman.com...re&alt=&hn=8549

#2 bellthecat

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 02:54 PM

Nairi - this is all a bunch of lies. It is part of a con by people in Van to extract a lot of money from the Turkish Ministry of Culture.

Every year that this church avoids a "restoration" is actually another year that has been saved. See Ani to understand what I mean.

Steve

#3 nairi

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 03:03 PM

Thanks. I got this message from the Assembly of Armenians of Europe and was wondering about it.

#4 bellthecat

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 03:17 PM

And far from it being in "almost ruins" it is actually the best preserved medieval Armenian church in Turkey (though that's because of its isolated position and not because the Turks have tried to preserve it).

The best thing that could happen to this building is either for it to be left completely alone, or for outside experts (preferably from Britain, but absolutely no Turks or Armenians) to be brought in to advise on its preservation which would not involve any "restoration".

#5 hytga

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 04:35 PM

QUOTE
no Turks or Armenians
why not armenians? for political reasons?

#6 gamavor

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 05:29 PM

I would rather prefer Italians, French, Greeks or Chinese to fix it. Brits are criminals, Germans have no clue about our architecture, Russians will be drunk most of the time....how about Mongolians, they may do the job. smile.gif

#7 bellthecat

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 05:35 PM

Not for political reasons, but for practical reasons.

I don't think any Armenians from Armenia would have any understanding of how to properly conserve a historic buildiing. I don't even think they would understand the concept - they may be a generation or two in advance of their Turkish equivalents, but since the Turks are about 200 years behind current practices, that isn't much to boast about. And there will also be a risk of religious fanatics getting involved - the sort who have effectively destroyed many historic monuments in Armenia because they believe that it is irrelevant what is done to a church as long as the repairs enables then to stick a priest in it. I've heard that those sort of people are campaigning to get their hands on the Ani cathedral.

#8 bellthecat

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 05:42 PM

The country with the most advanced skills in the conservation of historic buildings is Britain. France and Spain are pretty good as well. Italians are good at over-restoring frescoes but not much else. Germans are too clinical and picky to do it properly - they over-restore to the point of sterility.

Gamavor - I think the Mongolians might be good at stitching up tents, but not much else, and would probably spend most of their time shagging the local sheep. smile.gif

#9 Armen

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 06:11 PM

Yes, Brits are very good at building conservation. High level British specialists decompose it stone by stone and then you see the building in British Musem.

#10 DominO

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 06:39 PM

QUOTE (ArmenSarg @ May 17 2004, 06:11 PM)
Yes, Brits are very good at building conservation. High level British specialists decompose it stone by stone and then you see the building in British Musem.

lol.gif

Sorry Steve, I could really not resist. smile.gif

#11 gurgen

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Posted 18 May 2004 - 08:31 AM

QUOTE (ArmenSarg @ May 18 2004, 01:11 AM)
Yes, Brits are very good at building conservation. High level British specialists decompose it stone by stone and then you see the building in British Musem.

I really wonder why they call it the British Museum, since the British historical pieces present can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

It's still a great museum though.

#12 gamavor

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Posted 21 May 2004 - 10:14 PM

BTW, the correct name of the Church should be Ah, Tamar! Does anyone know why? smile.gif

#13 Maral

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Posted 22 May 2004 - 12:37 AM

Hovhannes Toumanian

English translation by V. Rogov


AKHTAMAR
Beside the laughing lake of Van
A little hamlet lies;
Each night into the waves a man
Leaps under darkened skies.


He cleaves the waves with mightly arm,
Needing no raft or boat,
And swims, disdaining risk and harm,
Towards the isle remote.

On the dark island burns so bright
A piercing, luring ray:
There's lit a beacon every night
To guide him on his way.

Upon the island is that fire
Lit by Tamar the fair;
Who waits, all burning with desire,
Beneath the shelter there.

The lover's heart-how doth it beat!
How beat the roaring waves!
But, bold and scorning to retreat,
The elements he braves.

And now Tamar the fair doth hear,
With trembling heart aflame,
The water splashing-oh, so near,
And fire consumes her frame.

All quiet is on the shore around,
And, black,there looms a shade:
The darkness utters not a sound,
The swimmer finds the maid.

The tide-waves ripple, lisp and splash
And murmur, soft and low;
They urqe each other, mingle, clash,
As, ebbing out, they go.

Flutter and rustle the dark waves.
And with them every star
Whispers how sinfully behaves
The shameless maid Tamar;

Their whisper shakes her throbbing her
This time,as was before!
The youth into the waves doth dart,
The maiden prays on shore.

But certain villians, full of spite,
Against them did conspire,
And on a hellish, mirky night
Put out the guiding fire.

The luckless lover lost his way,
And only from afar
The wind is carrying in his sway
The moans of:"Ah, Tamar!"

And through the night his voice is heard
Upon the craggy shores,
And, though it's muffled and blurred
By the waves' rapid roars,

The words fly forward-faint they are-
"Ah, Tamar!"
And in the morn the splashing tide
The hapless yough cast out,

Who,battling with the waters, died
In an unequal bout;
Cold lips are clenched, two words they bar:
"Ah, Tamar!"
And ever since, both near and far,
They call the island Akhtamar

Edited by Maral, 22 May 2004 - 12:53 AM.


#14 Arpa

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Posted 22 May 2004 - 03:44 AM

Very nice Maral, even if this has been aired numerous times before.
Gamavor, you know very well that it is only a romantization, a very good one at that. Toumanian's poem, as romantic and imaginative it may be is only a fable, a word game at best, it is retrofitted. Nothing wrong with that, in so doing Hovannes has made that world class monument accessible to more people thna it would ever be, most people know of and about Aghtamar if only through that poem by Toumanian.

Most reference to Aghtamar on this forum is mainly in passing and secondary, often buried under other subjects and at time lost in too much noise. I think yhe sacred landmark deserves a page to its own.

I will start a thread solely dedicated to Aghtamar where we can add, and hopefully keep it free of controversy and personal attacks.

Please go to Culture and look for AGHTAMAR

#15 kakachik77

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Posted 29 October 2004 - 12:02 AM

QUOTE (gurgen @ May 18 2004, 08:31 AM)
I really wonder why they call it the British Museum, since the British historical pieces present can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

It's still a great museum though.


My grandpa calls it "The Museum of Stolen Goods", at least one person found the right name for it.

#16 gamavor

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Posted 26 June 2005 - 08:16 PM

The BEST TURK IS THE DEAD TURK!

Armenian architect to lead church restoration

Sunday, June 26, 2005

DIPLOMACY


ANKARA - Turkish Daily News

A Turkish private company that will restore a historic Armenian church
has decided to hire a Turkish architect of Armenian origin as part of
the restoration team consisting of archaeologists, art historians and
civil engineers.

The owner of the company, Cahit Zeydanli, met late last week with
Turkish Armenian Patriarch Mesrob Mutafian to consult with him on
hiring an Armenian architect for the project. After the meeting,
Zeydanli said the company planned to hire Zakarya Mildanoglu in line
with the recommendation of the Armenian patriarch.

The restoration may take a year or two and our goal is to restore a
nice church in accordance to its original form. He predicted the
restoration work would be completed by the end of 2006. The church is
on Akdamar Island, situated in Lake Van, and has historical
significance for both Turks and Armenians.

Zeydanli said the renovation project has the full support of top level
Turkish officials, including Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and
Culture and Tourism Minister Atilla Koз

-----------
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may be reproduced, further distributed or archived without the prior
permission of the publisher. Contact Turkish Daily News Online at
http://www.TurkishDailyNews.com for details.
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PS: May I ask what happened with 1250 Armenian Churches barbaricaly destroyed in front of the eyes of "Christian" Europeans in so-called Turkey? Weren't they historicaly significant for both Turks and Armenians?


F**** bastards! No peace until the last representative of your cursed race goes 6 feets under!!!

#17 Zartonk

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 04:11 PM

QUOTE
Zeydanli said the renovation project has the full support of top level
Turkish officials, including Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and
Culture and Tourism Minister Atilla Koз


Yes, Supported to be restored, just to then be passed off as some imagined site made by God-knows who of some-muslim-province somewhere.

(Arak Elots Kili Esi (Kervansaray)
The church of Arak Elots Karavanaray was bulit in 1031 as Patriache Seljuks later added into Caravanseray
)

Now they want to "restore" THE only church whose frescos got missed and didn't get white-washed by the honorable invaders, so when it topples like Ani the Kurd can keep his donkeys in there and use the khachkars to make himself a red brick house.




1250 is a BIG digit.

#18 Djrak

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 12:28 AM

the renovation they did to Ani, wasnt encouraging they distorted a lot, took out every sign of christianity.

#19 Zartonk

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 04:27 PM

Precisely. cultural rape & murder.

#20 gamavor

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 06:53 PM

Speaking of cultural rape, read the passage below. This was the fate of most of the Armenian churches in temporary so-called Turkey.

"The AKP Diyarbakir MP paid his first visit to Sati village Sunday.
This village is where Armenians resided during the first years of
Turkish Republic and has been a place much frequented by European
delegations during recent years. Representatives coming from the EU
mostly want to see the village's church, now used as a mosque."


http://groong.usc.ed.../msg118809.html




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