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#1 Arpa

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 07:31 AM

FOOTBALL DIPLOMACY

During these historic dys of the Beijung Olympics, we are daily, hourly reminded of the "Ping Pong Dipomcy" of 1971.

What do think?

There has been very little, if any discussion about this subject here, not much in other media either.
Let’s hear what our house pundits have to say.
Among all the noise, pro and con, the latest from the Armenian side is that the score is already 1-0 in our favor , using another cliché that the “ball is in their field”.
While some on the other side are urging for their president to attend, but with a portfolio containing mainly 3 items.
1. The “occupied territories”,
2. “Yerevan ’s acknowledgement and ratification of furkey’s de facto boundaries”,
And above all ,
3. the relenting of the “Genocide issue”.
===
QUOTE
Can Armenia’s Football Diplomacy Work?

By Brian Whitmore in Prague

Armenian President Serzh Sarkisian has decided to try a little "football diplomacy" to defuse longstanding tensions with neighboring Turkey.

During a recent visit to Moscow, Sarkisian made waves by publicly announcing that he would like his Turkish counterpart, Abdullah Gul, to come to Yerevan to watch a World Cup qualifying match between the two countries in September.

The Armenian leader repeated the invitation in a commentary published in the U.S. daily "The Wall Street Journal" last week (July 9). The Turkish Foreign Ministry says it is "studying" the proposal.

The sports element lends Sarkisian's overture a tantalizing historical appeal, evoking memories of the "ping-pong diplomacy" of the 1970s -- when an exchange of table-tennis teams helped set the stage for eventual rapprochement between the United States and China.

Edited by Arpa, 20 August 2008 - 07:56 AM.


#2 Arpa

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 05:02 PM

The following is from AZG as translated by the house expert of the furkish language Hakob Chaqrian, and retranslated.
Maybe the real message is lost in the translation and retranslation. The headline says “Gul shall go…” , but it does not elaborate any more.
Let me see if I am reading this right.
Is it saying that erdogagan went to Moscow to show his acquiescence to Russia’s action in Ossetia, and that he went to Baku to tell the ass-eris that he (or Gul) will next visit Yerevan?
Does the Obama-Biden duet have anything to do her?
---
QUOTE
PRESIDENT GUL SHALL GO TO YEREVAN, AS THE WEST AND THE USA DESIRE IT
Declares Head of National Democratic Party of Turkey
The head of the oppositional National Democratic Party of Turkey Deniz Baykal, criticizing the new policy of President Gul and Prime Minister Erdogan on Caucasus, suggested some interesting ideas.
Hurriyet newspaper reports that Baykal qualified Erdogan’s latest visit to Moscow as approval of Russia’s actions in Georgia. Referring to the Armenian policy of Erdogan, Baykal declared, "The Prime Minister’s new policy on Armenia must be severely criticized in public. Why he went to Azerbaijan? He went because he had to turn the policy on Armenia into a new direction. He went in order to persuade Azerbaijan to bear that change. The change will be done at the cost of neglecting Armenians’ claims about the genocide and the occupation of Artsax. This is what the West and the USA desire".
Baykal suggested another interesting idea regarding Serge Sarkisian’s invitation of Abdullah Gul to Yerevan. "Be sure, the President shall go to Yerevan to watch the Armenia-Turkey game. That game is itself an abomination of the aforementioned shift in our policy. This tendency of resignation will still have newer forms," he said, hinting at Erdogan "giving up" to Armenia.
By H. CHaqrian, translated by A.M.

Edited by Arpa, 26 August 2008 - 05:27 PM.


#3 Armen Half-Celt

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 09:44 PM

I heard about the Armenian President inviting the Turkish one to watch the game with him. I was most eager to hear their response to the invitation.

#4 Arpa

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 07:36 AM

Even though pres. Gul has not yet officially responded , emotions must be running at a high pitch in both Armenia and the Diaspora. Below two of many such news items .
What do you think?
=====
ARMENIAN REVOLUTIONARY FEDERATION DASHNAKTIUTYUN TO ORGANIZE PROTEST ACTIONS IN CASE OF TURKISH PRESIDENT'S ARRIVAL IN ARMENIA
2008-08-29 16:16:00
ArmInfo. Armenian Revolutionary Federation Dashnaktiutyun will
organize protest actions if Turkish President Andullah Gul accepts
Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan's invitation to arrive in Armenia,
vice-speaker of the parliament, member of the ARF Dashnaktiutyun
Hrayr Karapetyan said at today's press-conference in Hayastk club.

'As Turkey still continues its anti-Armenian propaganda, this
is the best case for the ARFD to raise the voice of protest', -
he said. Touching on the football game between the national teams
of Armenia and Turkey he said: 'This match is politicized. It is
important for our football players to understand this, in that case
they will play better'.

======
ARMENIAN OPPOSITIONIST CRITICIZES INTENTION OF ARFD TO CONDUCT ANTI-TURKISH RALLY
2008-08-29 16:02:00
ArmInfo. 'The authorities are to provide conditions for rallies by
any political force. I respect the right of the Armenian Revolutionary
Federation to rally but I criticize the possible anti-Turkish nature
of the rally', Suren Surenyants, a member of Republic opposition
party Political Council said at Tesaket Debate Club Friday.

On the one hand ARFD is a member of political ruling coalition,
whereas on the other hand it sharply criticizes the initiative of
the authorities to invite Turkish president to football match in
Yerevan. arrival of Turkish president in Armenia is so principal
for ARFD, let it withdraw from the coalition and then criticize the
president, he said.

ARFD has repeatedly announced an intention to organize protest actions
in Turkish president arrives in Yerevan on Sept 2. The municipality
prohibited the rally.




#5 Arpa

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 07:40 AM

Here is a diplomatic diplomacy.
====
INTERVIEW OF ARMENIAN PRESIDENT SERGE SARGSYAN TO TURKISH DAILY "RADIKAL"
ARMENPRESS
Aug 29, 2008
YEREVAN, AUGUST 29, ARMENPRESS: Below is the interview of president
of Armenia, Serzh Sargsyan, to the Turkish daily Radikal.

Q: The 2010 World Cup qualifier between the national teams of Armenia
and Turkey, scheduled for September 6 in Yerevan, is probably the most
politicized sporting event in our region. In terms of politics what
were your expectations when you invited Turkish president Abdullah
Gul to Yerevan to watch the game together?

A: My number one goal was to normalize the relations between our
countries. Mr. Gul's congratulation message upon my election said
about the opportunities of normalizing the relations between Armenia
and Turkey. Later on Prime Minister Erdogan stated that Turkey is
open to a dialogue with Armenia. In return, I decided to use this
opportunity. There is a good sports event ahead. It is the first
time in the history our football teams will meet. It may become a
good opportunity for us to develop our relations. The result of the
game is not important, anyways I hope it will be a pleasure for the
fans. There excitement will be great. This will be a big and exclusive
event in our relations, and I hope it will become more special due to
the presence of the Armenian and Turkish presidents. We are neighbors
and will remains so. I am sure having normal relations will benefit
both the countries. My invitation to Mr. Gul shall be considered in
this context.

Q: There are some concerns in Ankara about this invitation. How, for
example the problem of the borders is to be solved and how president
Gul will be received in Armenia. Do you share these concerns?

A: There is nothing to worry about. If we have invited a president
of a foreign state, we are able to provide everything on a due level.

Q: I have met with some representatives of the Armenian Revolutionary
Federation (ARF) Party, who are against your invitation. They said
they will so everything to be heard in case president Gul arrives
in Yerevan.

A: I am sure their means to express themselves will remain in terms
appropriate for an official visit. Not being politically correct they
will first harm themselves, Armenia and me, then Mr. Gul.

Q: What do you think about the regional power engineering and
communication projects realized by Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan,
which, in case of peace and stability in the region, might be very
profitable? Would Armenia like to join those projects? Do you think
that some day you will be received in Turkey in the same way as the
leaders of Azerbaijan and Georgia are, and the leaders of Turkey will
have doubts to accept invitations from Armenia?

A: By now I have learned two things about regional cooperation
projects. First, in case not all the countries of the region are
involved, or one of them is excluded, the projects do nothing but
create new dividing lines. Second, when political aspects of the
project outscore the economic ones, the projects usually turn out
not as successful as it they meant to be. It is something similar to
harnessing a horse from behind the cart.

Q: Which project do you mean?

A: The Baku-Tbilisi-Kars railroad, for example. Doesn't such railroad
already exist? It can be made operational again with minimum
expenses. A lot is being spent to leave Armenia out. In the past
the leaders of Armenia visited Turkey. I too, in different offices,
have been to Turkey. Reciprocal visits between neighbors are quite a
normal thing, and they should not be deemed as some kind of courtesy
to the opposite party. Our efforts are aimed at that.

Q: When the construction of the Baku-Tbilisi-Kars railway was
launched, president Gul in the presence of Aliyev and Saakashvili
said that Armenia could join this project in case of respecting the
international law. Do you think he hinted at the borders defined by
the 1921 agreement of Kars?

A: I think Mr. Gul would give a better answer to that question. I can
only assure that Armenia supports the regulations of the UN, as well
as other international treaties, it respects its own international
commitments.

Q: Well, I shall phrase my question more precisely. There are
some parties in Armenia that refer to a part of Turkey as Western
Armenia and, basing on the Sevres Treaty, have territorial claims
from Turkey. Do you admit that it is difficult to have full-fledged
diplomatic relations with a neighbor which argues your borders? What
is your official opinion about the legitimateness and recognition of
the agreement of Kars?

A: I can hardly remember any Armenian official to make territorial
claims on Turkey. But I can always hear that from Turkey. I don't
think it is right to base upon single statements. If so, there are
many people in Turkey who assure that in fact there is no Armenia
at all. We do not need any pre-conditions to establish relations
with Turkey. I know about the anxiety of Turkish officials regarding
the phrasings like Western and Eastern Armenia. It seems strange to
me. Western and Eastern Armenia are geographical terms used in the 19th
century. Trying to forget those expressions, coming from the past, is
equal to trying to deny the existence of Sparta, the Russian Empire,
the Ottoman Empire or other historical facts. If we had assumed that
official policy, we would have called our country Republic of Eastern
Armenia, not Republic of Armenia. None of the Armenian officials spoke
such things. Russia, for example, has territorial issues with China
and Japan, but it doesn't prevent those states from having normal
diplomatic relations.

Q: After your invitation to Gul, very serious things as the
Russia-Georgia conflict happened in Caucasus. What do you think about
Russia's assistance to South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which separated
from Georgia?

A: In fact tragic events happened. People were killed. It showed what
can arms race result in such cases. We advocate settling such issues
through peace negotiations. We also advocate respecting peoples'
right to self-expression and self-determination. It s regretful that
things take such a turn and of course we do not like it. We believe
that the joint plan of the Presidents of Russia and France, Medvedev
and Sarkozy, will bring peace and stability. Peace and stability are
very important to us. Putting everything aside, 70% of Armenian trade
is made through Georgia.

Q: Yerevan experienced problems with fuel because of the railway
bridge in Georgia blown up by the Russians, is that so?

A: Yes, it is. We hope the problem will be solved in two days. The
instability in the region is against Armenia. It displays very well
how we need stability. Prolonging the instable situation for three
more months or years would multiply our problems.

Q: Foreign Minister of Armenia Edward Nalbandian already approved
Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan's initiative on Caucasian Stability
and Partnership Platform. Can you give any details on Armenia's policy
in this question?

A: Foreign Minister of Armenia Edward Nalbandian expressed positive
attitude to Erdogan's initiative on regional stability, security
and dialogue. I think the Foreign Minister took right actions. After
we receive the proposal we will discuss it in details and announce
our opinion.

Q: Do you think that the Nagorno-Artsax conflict, which is a very
important issue in your relations with Azerbaijan and Turkey, may soon
be settled? Do you think that making a peace agreement with Azerbaijan
will raise political and economic cooperation in the region onto a
new level?

A: We had a productive meeting with President Aliyev in Saint
Petersburg on June 6. Both of us ordered our Foreign Ministers to
proceed the work in accord with the principles adopted in Madrid. There
have been three meetings since then. I hope we'll find a solution soon.

Q: Can you suggest an approximate date?

A: It would be wrong to predict anything before the presidential
elections in Azerbaijan. We shall see what happens after the elections.

Q: Do you draw parallels between Nagorno-Artsax, South Ossetia
and Abkhazia? I ask this because you said that people's right for
self-determination should be always respected.

A: All the conflicts have something in common and something
different. I prefer making ourselves lessons out of them instead
of focusing on similarities and differences. I can clearly see
that efforts to solve such issues with military force result in
unpredictable and complicated consequences. I would like to know how
many people knew the results of the conflict before starting it. We
have to be very cautious.

Q: From outside it seems that the Turkish-Armenian relations are
in stalemate because of the Genocide issue. Do you think it is
right? Do you think Armenia-Turkey relations cannot progress until
Turkey recognizes the tragic events of 1915 as genocide? Is it a
pre-condition?

A: You can hardly find an Armenian in the world who does not believe
the Genocide took place. But the recognition of the Genocide is not a
pre-condition for establishing dialogue with Turkey. That is why we
say that we are ready to establish diplomatic relations with Turkey
without any pre-condition.

Q: What is your opinion about making a historians' commission to study
the 1915 events? Do you think it is possible to have two commissions,
one for normalizing the relations and another for studying the 1915
events? Do you think they can work at the same time?

A: I think we need to elaborate new approaches to this issue. For I
cannot remember a non-governmental commission to be ever established to
settle an intergovernmental issue. The best way is to start diplomatic
relations. In that case numbers of substructures and groups may be
established in the frameworks of the Armenian-Turkish intergovernmental
commission. Earlier a similar commission was found in the USA. Did it
work? Its necessary to create a proper environment for the functioning
of the scientific commission you suggested. Therefore normal diplomatic
relations are bare necessity.

Q. Do you believe that the ongoing confidential meetings of Armenian
and Turkish diplomats will yield any outcome?

A. I would never support them if I believed they would not. But on
the other hand I believe that the course of relations shows that we,
the leaders of the two countries, have reached the decision-making
point. They are not going to be easy ones. Not all Armenians or Turks
will like them. But I am sure that the overwhelming part of both
societies will support those decisions. I do not mean the diplomats'
efforts, by the overall atmosphere. Abdullah Gul's congratulatory
message, Erdogan's words, my invitation to Gul, even the interview
with you are parts of this atmosphere. In this sense I believe that
we have reached the decision-making stage.

Q. Will Gul's decision to come or not to Yerevan effect that situation?

A. I think his visit will be important. Because it is not easy to
make important decisions. Addressing an audience and looking in the
eyes of the one before you are different things. If I did not believe
it was important I would not send the invitation. We had difficult
times in our history, however Armenia is ready for development of
relations and expects the same from Turkey.






#6 Arpa

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 03:58 PM

The latest.
According to the AZG site pres. Gul has accepted the invitation, and that it will be a same day arrival and departure..
Here is where the news is coming from.
====
QUOTE
Gul accepts the invitation of Sargsyan
Turkish President Abdullah Gul accepted Armenian President Serz Sargsyan's invitation to watch a football game in Yerevan, Vatan daily reported on Saturday.
Visit to contribute to relations - 30 / 08 / 2008 10:19
Turkish President Abdullah Gul accepted his Armenian counterpart's invitation to watch a football game in Yerevan as the Turkish Foreign Ministry said the visit would contribute to the relations between two neighbor countries, Vatan daily reported on Saturday.
However, Armenia has not been informed officially regarding the decision, the report said adding that the official information is expected within the next week by presidency.
Sargsyan has invited Gul to watch a football match between the two country's national teams on Sept. 6 to mark "a new symbolic start in the two countries' relations."
Gul previously told that President Serz Sargsyan's invitation is an example showing that the contribution to solving the problem and the assessments on Mr. Sargsyan's invitation are underway with taking every development into account.
Although Turkey is among the first countries to recognize Armenia when it declared its independence, there are no diplomatic relations between two countries as Armenia continues to press the international community to admit the so-called "genocide" claims, instead of accepting Turkey's call to investigate the allegations, and its invasion of 20 percent of Azerbaijani territory due to the Nagorno-Artsax issue despite U.N. Security Council resolutions on the issue.
Armenia, with the backing of the Diaspora, claims up to 1.5 million of their kin were slaughtered in orchestrated killings in 1915. Turkey rejects the claims, saying that 300,000

Edited by Arpa, 30 August 2008 - 04:40 PM.


#7 Arpa

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 04:33 PM

Some questions.
Will the flag of furkey be raised at the Hraztan Field?
Will the anthem of furkey be played?
Will the public rise as the anthems are being played?
According to some, about 20-25,000 furkish fans will attend the games.??? Huh! huh.gif Where will they sleep?
Did I read it wrong? Was that supposed to be 20-25, without the zeroes? biggrin.gif tongue.gif

Edited by Arpa, 30 August 2008 - 04:36 PM.


#8 Yervant1

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 05:38 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Aug 30 2008, 06:33 PM)
Some questions.
Will the flag of furkey be raised at the Hraztan Field?
Will the anthem of furkey be played?
Will the public rise as the anthems are being played?
According to some, about 20-25,000 furkish fans will attend the games.??? Huh! huh.gif Where will they sleep?
Did I read it wrong? Was that supposed to be 20-25, without the zeroes? biggrin.gif tongue.gif

Yes, yes and yes, don't forget during the aggregate game the opposite will happen.
As for the number of fans probably most of them will come on chartered buses which will leave after the game. I hope some will stay a little longer and enjoy the Armenian hospitality and find out that whatever their hardcore nationalists say about Armenia and Armenians is not true.

#9 Arpa

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 12:42 PM

Even if there may not yet be any official news from either ankara or Yervan. The elite presidential guard id to arrive in Yerevan over "the weekend". Which weekend? Have they arrived yet?
QUOTE
17:30 28/08/2008
Turkish Presidential guards preparing for Yerevan mission
Turkish officials have been tightlipped over whether President Abdullah Gül will accept an invitation from his Armenian counterpart, Serzh Sarksyan, to visit Armenia to watch a game between the two countries' national soccer teams, but the president's elite bodyguard team is preparing for a possible Yerevan mission.

According to Turkish “Zaman”, the Presidential Security Directorate, the body in charge of protecting the president, has been busy preparing for Gül's visit to Armenia in case the president accepts Sarksyan's invitation. Plans include a dispatch of a 15-member counterattack team to Armenia over the weekend as a forward unit. Officials at Turkish Foreign Ministry said there are no official plans to send a security team to Armenia at the moment.

Gül has declined to comment on whether he will accept the invitation, a landmark move that would break the ice between the estranged neighbors. "We are still considering it. What is important is whether such a visit will be useful or not," Gül said in televised remarks yesterday.

Turkish and Armenian diplomats have been holding secret talks on the normalization of ties and Sarksyan, following a message from Gül to congratulate him for his election as president earlier this year, invited Gül to Yerevan to watch the World Cup qualifying game between the national teams on Sept. 6.

According to current plans, a group from the counterattack team, armed with M5 and M16 rifles, will be responsible for Gül's security during the visit. High security measures are expected to be taken at Razdan Stadium, where the game will take place. Armenian police will be in charge of securing the roads Gül will use during his stay in Yerevan.
Source: Panorama.am





#10 Arpa

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 08:43 AM

QUOTE
Today's Zaman, Turkey
Sept 1 2008
ErdoÄ?an says Gul will visit Yerevan, Gul cautious
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip ErdoÄ?an has indicated that
President Abdullah Gul will go to Yerevan next week to watch a
World Cup qualifying game between national teams of the two countries,
but Gul remains cautious on the matter, saying he is still
considering whether to accept the invitation from his Armenian
counterpart, Serzh Sarksyan.
ErdoÄ?an was speaking to reporters about the Caucasus Stability
and Cooperation Platform, a scheme that calls for new methods of
crisis management and conflict resolution, on Saturday evening at a
reception held by the General Staff command at Gazi Orduevi in Ankara
for Victory Day. Ankara aims at bringing Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia
and Turkey around the same table via this platform.
"Why did we call this [initiative] the 'Caucasus Stability and
Cooperation Platform'? Why is Armenia included in this, why is Georgia
included in this? Because we chose [them] for inclusion [in the
platform] on a geographic basis. We have to succeed in this so that
the region will become a region of welfare and ease," ErdoÄ?an
was quoted as saying by the Anatolia news agency.
Following these remarks, ErdoÄ?an was asked whether he wanted
Mr. President to go to Yerevan for the match, in an apparent reference
to Sarksyan's invitation to Gül to watch the World Cup
qualifying game between the national teams of the two countries on
Sept. 6.
"I hope it will be good," ErdoÄ?an said, adding, "The Armenia
dimension ¦ our foreign minister will accompany him [President
Gul] and a meeting will take place there,"
in remarks
interpreted as Gül having decided to go to Yerevan and that
Foreign Minister Ali Babacan would also accompany him in order to have
talks there concerning Armenia's participation in the Caucasus
Stability and Cooperation Platform.

At the same reception, however, when asked whether he would go to
Yerevan, Gül reiterated what he has been saying for the past
few weeks, stating that his evaluation of the issue is still ongoing.

Turkey closed its border with Armenia and severed formal ties after
Armenia occupied Nagorno-Artsax. Normalization of ties depends on
Armenian withdrawal from the Azerbaijani territory, Yerevan shelving
support for Armenian diaspora efforts to win international recognition
for Armenian genocide claims and formal recognition by Armenia of the
current border with Turkey.

Azerbaijan, Turkey's regional and ethnic ally, is likely to be
offended by any rapprochement between Turkey and Armenia. But the
recent crisis in the Caucasus may force a rethinking of regional
balances. The Russian operation in Georgia raised questions about the
security of regional transportation and energy transfer lines. With
its Armenian border closed, Turkey relies on Georgia as an outlet to
the Caucasus.



#11 Armen Half-Celt

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 02:05 PM

To be honest I am a little worried about the response both the home and traveling fans. Turkey has bee known to have fan violence with Greece in the past. (Fortunately not in this decade) and I can only imaigne the mutual dislike it would be worse here. I'd also be interested to see just how many Turkish fans will show up. They have a very pasionate crowd and its not that they need to travel far. But does not FIFA or UEFA have rules about limits on the number of traveling fans in any given game, however? The home fans will be hostile like no other though. Have you guys seen highlights of recent Armenian high profile games? The crowd erupted in thunderous boos everytime Portugal or Poland even pressed into the other half. And we don't have any bad relations with those countires, I can only imagine how bad it will be if Turkey does it. And one thing that I'd be a little scared to see is if one side scores, the last thinng i'd want to see if for FIFA to penalize both countries.

#12 Arpa

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 02:40 PM

I has hit the international news orgs.
http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7596768.stm
QUOTE
Turkish president in Armenia trip
The Turkish President, Abdullah Gul, is to attend a football match in Armenia, his office says, signalling an apparent thaw in relations.
The Turkish and Armenian teams will face each other for the first time in a World Cup qualifier on Saturday.
The two countries have no official ties and their shared border remains closed.
Turkey has rejected Armenia's campaign for the killings of some 1.5m of its citizens, by Ottoman Turks between 1915 and 1917, to be classified as genocide.
More than a dozen countries, various international bodies and many Western historians have recognised the killings as genocide.
Turkey admits that many Armenians were killed but it denies any genocide, saying the deaths were a part of World War I.
Climate of friendship
Mr Gul will become the first Turkish head of state to visit the Armenian capital, Yerevan, when he attends the match with his counterpart, Serge Sarkisian.
This visit is likely to be highly controversial in Turkey, says the BBC's Pam O'Toole.
The Armenian invitation has already sparked a major debate, with some nationalists regarding the fact that the president was even considering taking it up as a betrayal of the country's national interests.
Some columnists have questioned why Mr Gul should visit a country they refer to as Turkey's enemy.
The main opposition party has said such a trip would be a major deviation from state policy, while others see it as a valuable chance to break the logjam in relations, our correspondent says.
A statement on President Gul's website expressed hope that the trip would provide an opportunity for the two countries to understand each other better and create a new climate of friendship in the region.
Turkey and Armenia have had no diplomatic ties since Armenia became independent from the Soviet Union in 1991.
Their common border has been closed since the war between Armenia and Turkey's ally, Azerbaijan, in the 1990s over the disputed territory of Nagorno-Artsax.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7596768.stm

Published: 2008/09/03 17:58:27 GMT

© BBC MMVIII





#13 Arpa

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 09:31 AM

“will be using a new emblem featuring the figures of a tiger and a lion instead of a silhouette of Mount Agrı, also known as Mount Ararat, in eastern Turkey.”
----
“tiger and lion? Like the tiger and the lion are native beasts of Armenia, unless they mean “Tigran and Levon”(King of Klikia).
---
They should have replaced it with a “wolf and a hyena”, or, better yet, with a “wolf and a lamb“.
That’s alright. Even if they may not see the Emblem of Masis on the shirts, they will, for the first time see the Glorious Sacred Mountain from the classical vantage point that is only visible from Yerevan, while from their point of view the mountain is a dirty pile of rocks.
Not to forget that “agri-aghri” is a corruption of the Armenian “Agori-Aghori”.
====
QUOTE
ARMENIAN TEAM CHANGES EMBLEM BEFORE TURKEY MATCH

Today's Zaman
Sept 4 2008
Turkey

The Armenian national soccer team, poised to play against Turkey in
a World Cup qualifying game on Saturday, will be using a new emblem
featuring the figures of a tiger and a lion instead of a silhouette
of Mount Agrı, also known as Mount Ararat, in eastern Turkey.

Turkey and Armenia have had no formal ties since 1993. One of the
conditions Ankara expects Yerevan to fulfill for normalization
of relations is formal recognition of the current border with
Turkey. Turkish decision-makers are concerned that the Armenian
administration has claims on Turkish territory, and the depiction
of Mount Agrı on the Armenian national team emblem is seen as a
sign of Armenia's desire to claim a piece of eastern Turkey. The
Armenian Constitution describes Mount Agrı as a "state symbol,"
and Armenia's declaration of independence mentions eastern Turkey as
"Western Armenia."

The new emblem of the Armenian national team was introduced to the
public at a press conference in Yerevan on Wednesday. Speaking at
the briefing Armenian Football Federation Chairman Ruben Hayrapetyan
said the change of emblem was due to a demand to that effect from
football fan associations, noting that the previous emblem was not
popular among national team fans. An Armenian official in Yerevan
told Today's Zaman that the emblem had been changed a month ago
and
that the new emblem will be used for the first time in the World Cup
qualifying match against Turkey. He denied, however, any link between
the change and the game against Turkey.


Although officials dismiss a connection between the new emblem and
the upcoming match, the change is likely to be considered a good
will gesture by the Armenian side. Armenian President Serzh Sarksyan
invited his Turkish counterpart, Abdullah Gul, to watch the game
in Yerevan. Gul has not said yet whether he would attend, but he is
widely expected to accept the invitation.

Edited by Arpa, 04 September 2008 - 10:37 AM.


#14 Arpa

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Posted 06 September 2008 - 07:14 AM

According the latest from AZG Gul has arrived and taken to Pres. Sargeian's compound.
QUOTE
Գյուլը Երեւանում
Մի քանի րոպե առաջ Երեւան է ժամանել Թուրքիայի նախագահ Աբդուլլահ Գյուլը: Վերջինիս Զվարթնոց օդանավակայանում դիմավորել է ՀՀ արտգործնախարար Էդուարդ Նալբանդյանը: Թուրքիայի նախագահի ավտոշարասյունը շարժվել է դեպի նախագահ Սերժ Սարգսյանի նստավայր, որտեղ տեղի կունենա երկու երկրների ղեկավարների հանդիպումը: Երեկոյան նախագահներ Սարգսյանը եւ Գյուլը Հրազդան մարզադաշտում կդիտեն երկու երկրների ֆուտբոլի հավաքականների խաղը: Հավաքականների մրցապայքարը կսկսվի 21.00-ին, խաղից հետո Գյուլը կմեկնի Հայաստանից



#15 MosJan

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Posted 06 September 2008 - 10:07 AM

Turkish President Abdullah Gul arrives in Yerevan 06.09.2008 17:13 GMT+04:00 /PanARMENIAN.Net/ Turkey’s President Abdullah Gul arrived in Yerevan on an informal visit today. The two Presidents will attend a soccer game between the Armenian and Turkish national teams in Hrazdan stadium.

This will be the first-ever visit of a Turkish President to independent Armenia.

The Presidents will watch the game from a bulletproof box. Before, they will hold a 1-hour meeting.

Gul will be accompanied by a 130-member delegation. Unprecedented security measures have been taken. The roads in the center and those leading to the stadium are blocked.

Ankara broke diplomatic relations and closed the border with Armenia in 1993 over the Nagorno Artsax conflict. To normalize relations Turkey urges Armenia to give up the policy calling for international recognition of the Armenian Genocide and cede 7 regions of NKR security belt to Azerbaijan.



#16 MosJan

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Posted 06 September 2008 - 10:08 AM

Aznavour won’t attend Armenia-Turkey soccer game over illness
06.09.2008 13:57 GMT+04:00 Print version Send to mail In Russian In Armenian

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Renowned singer Charles Aznavour said he was glad to know that Turkish President Abdullah Gul finally decided to pay a visit to Armenia.

“I would be happy to be in Armenia on such an important day but unfortunately I have some health problems. Dear Mr President, I wish you success in your mission for the glory of the Armenian people. I am hopeful that a meeting with Turkish President will be an advance in bilateral relations,” Aznavour said in his message.

Gul will be in Yerevan on Sept. 6 to attend a World Cup qualifying soccer game between the Armenian and Turkish national teams.

Ankara broke diplomatic relations and closed the border with Armenia in 1993 over the Nagorno Artsax conflict.


#17 Arpa

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Posted 06 September 2008 - 03:43 PM

VENI VIDI V….. BUMMERRRRRR! boxing.gif
I Came, I Saw, I C….d
ԵԿԻ ՏԵՍԻ ՅԱՂԹԵՑԻ /ԳՐԱՒԵՑԻ
The cliché is attributed to Julius Caesar after his victory over Pharnaces of Pontus at Cappadocia (Ironically, modern day Tokat).
The latest is that the football match ended in 2-0, I.e the first 2 of the 3 V’s in the cliché, lets’ see what the third V is. Or, better yet the MV, as in Moral Victory, Բարոյական Յաղթանակ, this phrase is so common in our language that it is recited more often than Hayr Mer or Mer Hayreniq.
However. Let me be the first to say that this time the phrase has some ring to it. Yes, he came, he saw and he… yet the main point is that he came. He came to a country that he has been denying the existence of. He came to the Capital of a country that he has been ignoring all these times. Yes, he CAME to Yerevan, the Capital of ARMENIA.
Unless he came as a potential real estate buyer to survey the property!! huh.gif
And, one wonders what route he flew by. Over Georgia or over Iran, since the route over Ani and Ararat are closed. biggrin.gif huh.gif
What did he have for breakfast? Khash or kele p-acha? Not to forget the dinner of gokma, gakma and gakstrma. tongue.gif biggrin.gif smile.gif
The next subject topic will be Khash Diplomacy, or raqi party. smile.gif
http://upload.wikime...m..._(dish).jpg
One wonders if he had a Kotayk or Cognac party!
http://www.lacproduc...beer/Kotayk.jpg
I didn’t know this. There is a Paruyr Sevak Cognac?
http://www.manufactu....php?prodID=556

Edited by Arpa, 06 September 2008 - 04:51 PM.


#18 Arpa

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:59 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2...tml#cnnSTCVideo

#19 Arpa

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 08:04 AM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Aug 20 2008, 01:31 PM)
FOOTBALL DIPLOMACY

There has been very little, if any discussion about this subject here, not much in other media either.
Let’s hear what our house pundits have to say.
Among all the noise, pro and con, the latest from the Armenian side is that the score is already 1-0 in our favor , using another cliché that the “ball is in their field”.
===

FATIH CEKIRGE: A SIGNAL FOR A NEW NOGORNO-Artsax MAP DURING ARMENIA VISIT
Hurriyet
Sept 8 2008
Turkey

Following a history packed with murders, assassinations, attacks,
hate, closed borders, invasions, and claims of genocide... This was
the first time that a president of the Turkish Republic has paid a
visit to Armenia. Since this was a historic visit, I allocate my entire
column to this visit I paid together with President Abdullah Gul.

This was the atmosphere just after the match... The two presidents are
having a conversation, and we are listening to them. Jokes are being
made. The Armenians had prepared a very nice open buffet. There was
no sign of victory or defeat on their faces. Gul turns to Sargsyan
and says:

-I will visit Azerbaijan after my visit here. I hope positive
developments will emerge...

Sargsyan replies:

- Of course... We are ready.

This is very important because Sargsyan clearly states, "We want the
borders open with Turkey. We want a solution to problems."

What I understand from these remarks are:

1- A new period can start between Azerbaijan and Armenia after
this visit. The foreign ministers have already met but this period
will mostly be a solution period... Turkey will take on a mediator
role. Gul's saying that he would visit the Armenian president shows
that such an attempt is being undertaken by both presidents.

2- The technical issues were not debated during this visit, but
a new map for Nagorno-Artsax can be brought to the table in the
future...Gul's visit to Baku is a sign of this.

3- I had the opportunity to have a brief conversation with the
Armenian president. I noticed that he was really sincere and desires
a solution. He has a positive disposition.

4- We realized while in the country that Gul's visit to Yerevan was
the best possible decision. With good risk management, new doors for
the Caucasus can be opened as a result of this visit.

NO MENTION OF SO-CALLED GENOCIDE

The atmosphere of elation on the plane on the way to home after Turkey
beat Armenia 2-0 was greater than the jubilance of victory in the
match. That is because the approximately 12-hour long visit transformed
tension into success. And this was clearly written all over Gul's face.

It was worth taking the risk...

Here are some of important remarks Gul made on the return journey
from Yeravan to Ankara:

-They never mentioned the so-called genocide issue. Leaving that aside,
they did not even imply it or mention it indirectly. They might have
even hinted at it, but they did not.

- We saw that they were as unbiased as us...

-An atmosphere has been created which would allow all the issues to
be addressed one by one

-They spoke very comprehensively of the Nagorno-Artsax issue.

-The Azeri and Armenian presidents can come together in the future. I
will pay a visit to Azerbaijan in the coming days.

-The visit was certainly risky. We could have announced it one week
earlier, but certain preparations had to be made for security reasons.

- What would happen had we not paid this visit? There would be no
result. The price we pay would continue to grow had no action been
taken.

- In fact, the invitation to the match sent the ball into our
field. This visit sent the ball back into their field
.





#20 Arpa

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 08:44 AM

If I am reading the “between the lines “ correctly, the above 3 conditions may have been reduced to only 2.
Many commentaries have indicated, or in the least omitted to mention the Artsakh issue as a pre-condition. Do we assume that the “hot line” between ankara and baku is little chilly these days? See stories about the “chilly reception” of VP Cheney in baku. http://hyeforum.com/...showtopic=18628
From the above article;
QUOTE
2- The technical issues were not debated during this visit, but a new map for Nagorno-Artsax can be brought to the table in the future...Gul's visit to Baku is a sign of this.

huh.gif Huh! «A new map» ?
How about a «new map» to the west of Yerevan. Nakhjavan, Ararat, Ani,Van, Kars and Ardahan?
http://www.armeniape...western-big.jpg

Edited by Arpa, 09 September 2008 - 08:50 AM.





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