By Harut Sassounian
Publisher, The California Courier
www.TheCaliforniaCourier.com
Last week, I transcribed the first portion of a lengthy video in which
two Turkish Intellectuals are advocating the recognition of the
Armenian Genocide by the Republic of Turkey. The discussion took place
in 2015 on the 100th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide. The
conversation between Erdogan Aydin and Aydin Chubukchu is in Turkish
with English subtitles on the video. The name of the one hour and 37
minute-long program is Tower of Babel. The title of the program is
“Facing the Genocide.” The Turkish discussion was translated and
subtitled in English by Ohannes Kilicdagi, Ph.D.
Aydin Chubukchu: “Of course it [the Genocide] did not start in 1915.
First of all, the Ottomans had an unjust order on the basis of nations
and faiths. There was a dominating nation and several others that were
dominated. The dominating nation [millet], which denoted religious
groups at older times rather than ethnicities, was the Muslims. So,
the dominating nation was Sunni Muslims. All the rest, Armenian and
Greek, in the first place, were the dominated nations. This is the
language of the state. It is not something that we make up today to
defame the Ottomans. This is the description used by the official
literature of the time. Moreover, there was a distinct term used only
for Armenians, loyal nation (milleti sadika). So, Armenians, who had a
privilege among other dominated nations, stood very loyal to the
sovereign system. They were unarmed, providing all services for the
state, etc. They had such fame. In fact, this is an unpleasant
situation for a nation. No nation should be loyal; subservient to or
dominant over another one. For us justice should be founded on
equality be it yesterday or today. Equal citizenship, equal nations,
fraternity of people…. There was a different standard; Ottoman
standard. States like the Ottomans have such characteristics. They
invade the land of others when they are strong. When invaded people
awakened and the Ottoman state got weaker, they started to demand
independence. Indeed, every Turk in Turkey should appreciate this.
Turkey was founded by a struggle for independence. So demanding
independence is a legitimate right for every nation: Greek, Bulgarian,
Arab and Armenian…. These were wars of independence for sovereignty….”
Moderator: “Let us follow this line: the 1853-56 Crimean War, the 1839
Tanzimat Edict, the 1856 Reform Edict, the 1876 Constitution—the
zenith of reform. Where were the Armenians at those dates?”
Aydin Chubukchu: “Those dates made it impossible for Ottomans to
retain the old order based on the dominant-subservient nations. They
had to issue Tanzimat and Reform edicts to be able to take credits
from abroad. This is the critical point: after these edicts they would
not call giavours [infidels] giavour. Giavour and Muslim would be
tried in the same court. Sure, giavour is a bad word, we should not
use it, but they called them so and this is the language that the
ordinary man understands. Properties of those called giavours would
not be confiscated. Accordingly, a relaxation came. But, this
relaxation, instead of bringing peace to Armenians, unfortunately,
exacerbated the tension. Why? Because the local power holders of the
old, the dominant nation, started to provoke the Muslim people by
saying: ‘what is happening? We are losing the sharia. Will the giavour
be equal with us?’ Indeed, the state also connived these provocations.
After a while, assaults against Armenians, especially by Kurdish,
Islamists, Circassian organizations started. Upon this, Article 61 of
the 1878 Berlin Treaty states that Armenians had been attacked and
held the Ottoman state responsible for their protection. The Ottomans
signed this. Moreover, let’s remember, against nationalist and
Islamist prejudices. That the Berlin Treaty was prepared to protect
the Ottomans. Otherwise, the Russians, who came until Yeshilkoy [Aya
Stefanos], 20 kilometers near the center of Istanbul, would invade it.
The Ottomans signed this, but, leaving aside informing [the Great
Powers], they continued to let the attacks by mentioned groups. They
did not implement the reforms either. Let us imagine ourselves for a
minute as Turks in Bulgaria, Uyghurs or Muslims in Bosnia. What would
we want, if we were there? Security of life and property. Nobody
should attack or harass us. So, the state assured the Armenians of the
time the same thing that we would want in Bosnia, but did not keep its
promise. The Ottoman rulers, Abdulhamid being in the first place, did
not want to acknowledge the rights of citizens as such. Moreover, they
did not want to give anything to non-Muslims. This is the essence of
the problem. …In fact, a just mind should defend the resistance of a
people when their rights are attacked. Since we are captured by the
mentality of slavery and an ideology that continuously exalts the
state, we expect people to say nothing when the state does whatever it
wants. But we do not follow the same logic for Bulgaria. If the
victims are Turks and the oppressors are Bulgarians or Greeks then we
do not accept it and defend resistance. We defend Bosnians against
Serbs, rightfully, of course. But, likewise, when Armenians and Greeks
demand their rights from the state, we say, ‘you rebels! You rebel
against the state!’ Although this is a medical term and maybe should
not be used in politics, but, it shows a schizophrenic, double
personality. Justice necessitates that we should give people from
different faiths and mother tongues what we want for those whom we
associate with ourselves, in Bulgaria, Bosnia, Uyghur, Cyprus. Justice
requires this. Kurds were used. But let us divide Kurds into two. One
is the ordinary Kurds. The other is the lords, Kurdish powerholders,
who aimed to get rich by extorting Armenian properties. Circassians
were also used. They were driven from Russia by genocide. They lived
through a heavy victimhood. The Ottoman state provoked Circassians
against the Armenians in Turkey. It led them to take their revenge
from the Armenians. In fact, we have numerous documents showing that
some Circassians were used in this way. We should not praise or curse
a people as a whole. This is what is called essentialism. All people
have their good and evil, victims and oppressors. Collaborationists,
disgraceful ones, exist in every people. We have to be sensitive to
differentiate those among Kurds, Armenians Circassians and Kurds.
Especially, we, who have a leftist worldview, should make this
distinction more carefully.”
(Part III, to be continued in the next issue)