54 replies to this topic

[Anileve]

I’ve been meaning to ask this for some time now. God knows how happy I am to be a woman, thinking of the numerous advantages we have. How our bodies reveal and conceal many phenomenons. Even our little red riding hood’s visit guarantees us an “excuse for everything” card. Our moodiness is an element in our unpredictable yet exciting personality. We are capable of performing dominant and submissive roles equally.

One of the other perks of our mystifying gender are the numerous gifts and other favors men give or do for us. Some women directly seek that in men, others are indifferent to them yet don’t exactly mind. Now that women have gained a stronger position in the society, they no longer rely on the success of men and fetching a turkey with a fat wallet. They are more cautious accepting gifts, drinks and trips, since most of them can provide themselves with such luxuries.

So finally to my question for men first:

“If you were a woman would you take advantage of free drinks offered to you by men, free trips to a resort, an expensive piece of jewelry, or an Entertainment system? Would you accept those things from men you are not interested in? Think about it, it’s free.”

And to the left over women of this forum:

“Do you find it difficult to accept gifts from men? Or do you believe that it’s customary for men to pay and offer a special treatment? Would you refuse a $400 gift certificate to your favorite shoe store, from an old male friend who might have some interest in you?”

[15levels]

To answer your question: I don't think it matters if you are a men or a woman, if something is given for free and you can take it - take it. But only under one condition- that it doesnt compromise your integrity and self-respect. If you got none of the above, then anything which is free will be consumed.

PS. Somehow your post reminded me of a joke about difference butween theory & practise. Do you know it? If not, I be happy to tell it. (its a good one).

[Azat]

Did someone say free booze?

Cheap stuff I would have no problem, expansive I would have lots of issues.


Rouben, please do tell the joke. I am all ears.

[Anileve]

Thanks for being the first brave soul to come forward Rouben. Integrity and self-respect are very subjective, you can take advantage of people yet not lose self respect. What if it seems that someone is genuinely offering something to you and you sense no expectations, however they might have a different agenda. Do they have the right to demand something in return? Like for you to scrub their bathroom tiles with a toothbrush? Where do you draw the line? Do people really offer gifts of large value without expecting something in return?

Jes, please do tell us the joke!

Edited by anileve, 21 April 2004 - 02:19 PM.

[15levels]

OK here it is:

Son asks the father, please explain the difference butween theory and practise. Father takes the boy to the mother (his wife) and asks her: "If someone would offer you 1.000.000 dollars would you sleep with him?" At first she says "No, of course not" but after some assurances that "noone will know, etc" she agrees. Then the father does the same with his daughter... same answer. So he turns to his son and tells him: "See, boy, theoretically we are millioners. Practically we have two hookers in the house".



I hope its funny.

[ED]

Sounds lot better in Armenian

[_Anka_]

Your posting reminded me of an incident that happened few months back.

I had a date a day after the Valentin'es Day and when I met the guy he gave me a watch!!! The weirdest thing is that the guy was been calling almost everyday for a month before that and I almost never answered the phone seeing his # on the Caller ID. Anyways so he called me again on VAlentine's day and I decided to answer him just to see what the hell he wants. He invited me to have a drink with him the next day and when we met he opened a box with two watches inside. He told me happy valentine's day and put the woman's watch on my wrist and the man's watch on his hahahahah I was in a shock actually because I dont' know anyone who gets a watch on the first date. I also ignored him for a month but he still kept calling me so I dont' know what the hell was up with that guy. Anyways, we had few drinks, I gave him hope , then didn't answer his calls for few weeks after the date, then I sent him a text message saying that "I'm not interested." But to this day I don't know why he would give me a watch not even really knowing me. He was either very desperate or he was just trying to "buy" me with the gift making me think that there's more to come. I didn't return the watch and I have better ones so I guess he didn't try too hard hahah just kidding.

[Accelerated]

Integrity and self-respect are very subjective, you can take advantage of people yet not lose self respect.

Yes, but eventually others will stop respecting you and you will end up one miserable soul if you keep using people.

[Anileve]

Accelerator, that's absolutely untrue. You will become miserable only if you allow it.

I still haven't received satisfactory answers. What would you men do if you had the advantages women are in possession of?

I'd like to read the joke in Russian as well, if possible.

[Azat]

Am I a pretty woman or an ugly one?

This may show what a shallow idiot I am but I think I would be like that fat chick who married that old oil guy and got gazillion dollars after he died. She was not fat that that time I think and use to be a playboy model.

Well, i guess by now you guys know what a shallow piece of crap I am...

[Anileve]

You mean Anna Nicole-Get-into-Ma-Belley Smith?

Can we treat this situation seriously please? I am struggling with morality here, developing some sense of accurate ethics to take with me on this long journey called life and you are foolin' around!

How would you feel if a woman accepted and requested several gifts and benefits, would you remain indifferent and not ask for anything in return?

[Azat]

Sorry

I was somewhat serious. I think I have no problem accepting gifts and things. Especially if they are to my advantage. There is a good book by RObert Childini(sp?) called Influence that covers much of this gift giving stuff stuff in general but more in professional life.

I think as long as the gifts come from someone who really accepts nothing in return and is giving the gift for a reason I would have no problem accepting them.

[Accelerated]

Accelerator, that's absolutely untrue. You will become miserable only if you allow it.

yes, but it would be pretty difficult not to allow it if you were sane. By definition, to be able to use people you have to be around other people, people that are once bitten twice shy no?

[gevo27]

well to answer your question anileve, i dont see it as being wrong or bad for a girl to accept gifts from a guy.. so long so she "feels" for him.. at whatever amount that may be.. i may be a little young, thus my views are accordingly.. but noenthless...
For me, i dont think i would buy special gifts for a girl unless we were pretty much set for life.. u know.. some guys might buy gifts to boost the relationship.. or to try to get it going at all.. maybe impress etc... but i think the bottom line is.. whenyou are accepting or denying a gift, you feel in your gut, in your heart that your doing the right thing,.,, or what your doing isnt right.. cause only your inside knows for sure that you like this guy, or are u using, or feeling like your using, him for the gifts.

and what do u mean by

How would you feel if a woman accepted and requested several gifts and benefits, would you remain indifferent and not ask for anything in return?

u mean if the woman accepts ur gifts, then u expect some back>> or not gift maybe but something???//// if thats the case.. then the guy isnt really into you. maybe some parts of you... get the drift.. lol.. but i think if a guy is buying gifts, and expensive ones at that.. then he must like you in some way..

[Anoushik]

Anileve, I have never accepted gifts from guys who do not interest me, and I never will. And knowing myself I would probably never accept gifts from a guy unless I knew our relationship was very serious. I know a lot of girls who use guys to get gifts and I just don't understand how they don't feel any guilt.

... eventually others will stop respecting you...

I completely agree with you, Accel.

[ExtraHye]

Anileve, I have never accepted gifts from guys who do not interest me, and I never will. And knowing myself I would probably never accept gifts from a guy unless I knew our relationship was very serious. I know a lot of girls who use guys to get gifts and I just don't understand how they don't feel any guilt.



I completely agree with you, Accel.

I agree with both of you. I've met tons of girls who use guys to buy them gifts... Can't see myself doing that. This may sound weird, but it's such a turn of for me if a guy tries to buy my love Makes me think his hiding something.

[gurgen]

What would you men do if you had the advantages women are in possession of?

I would get my grades up ofcourse.

[Anileve]

Ok, I see that morality prevails in this thread, although I was hoping for some raw answers.

Thank you for your honesty Gurgen, that is certainly the advantage I was talking about, however I wouldn't be able to do it.

Now to explain what drove me to ask this question. As we know the grass is always greener on the other side. Each gender believes that the other has some special advantage, and if the opportunity would have presented itself they would use it more efficiently and with cleverness to their advantage.

One of my acquaintances is a young and vibrant woman. She lives a very luxurious lifestyle far beyond what her salary allows. However she chooses her men based on their success, and not necessary because of her shallow nature, but because those are her standards where she finds herself on the same level as them. She is often showered with obscene gifts from men which she either dates, dated, her admirers or her friends. She recently received a $400 certificate to her favorite shoe store, where with that money she would be able to buy one pair only and that is only if she adds extra. The gift was from her ex-boyfriend, and I was searching for my eyes on my forehead after hearing about this. So I thought about it, being that I couldn't possibly act in the same manner, perhaps it wasn't so bad after all? The men highly enjoyed her company, being that she is a blast to be with and out of affection would often express their gratitude through gifts, and knowing her expensive taste it would mean expensive gifts. Perhaps it is not so bad to accept gifts. Human decency should be such that if one was to give a gift he should do it out of pure pleasure of giving, unless the terms are stated beforehand. Otherwise who is more wrong, giving something with a genuine interest (yet expecting something in return) or someone who never asked for the gifts and accepts it? Shouldn't giving be more of an unconditional gesture? I personally give gifts without any reservation and certainly without a grain of expectations.

The other incident that provoked this thought was concerning my good guy friend, who is a struggling student yet who owns his own place and tries to make his ends meet. His girlfriends often treat him or cook for him, or clean his apartment. He receives pretty hefty gifts from them without requesting them. Having a conversation with him regarding this subject, he honestly told me that he would rather enjoy being a woman to take advantage of all of the perks. “Are you kidding? Free dinners and booze? I'd accept it in a heartbeat, and if they expect little action in return how much better can it get?” He was thinking from a guys point of view. And it struck me as perhaps women have too many reservations, perhaps they don't exactly enjoy things the way they should? Perhaps men would be more clever in that situation?

But I wonder if men had the same chance would they take advantage of it or would their behavior change? Perhaps for women it's so readily available and amazingly easy that they feel like they have to be more rigid about things? Is it really about gender or is it more of the resources factor? If you have all the resources at your fingertips perhaps you would be more reserved and selective about your options?

[axel]

Otherwise who is more wrong, giving something with a genuine interest (yet expecting something in return) or someone who never asked for the gifts and accepts it?

The fact that someone acts in a potentially reprehensible manner, morally speaking, is no justification for you to behave immorally.

As far as the gender issue is concerned, well I don't think it is a gender issue but a rather a moral one.
Women may be more often confronted with the kind of situation you described but in the end the choice to be made follows from the individual's moral nature rather than his/her gender.

That said, I leave it to you to decide whether all women behave as whores, practically speaking. I am mainly concerned with theoretical issues.

[gurgen]

Eve, it's just not fair.

We guys get good grades on things we have to study for generally, but when it comes to assignments it's an entirely different question. For the grades the teacher gives for this is partly based on his own opinion of the student. Ofcourse they would never admit it but it's a fact. There's this one girl in my school who's as dumb as a rock but always gets 10/10 for presentations, and this happens with different teachers, just because she's extremely good-looking.

When we complain, we usually get brushed off, when a good-looking girl complians, the teacher goes red and tells them he 'will take a look at it'.