106 replies to this topic

[Hellektor]

From the Trashcan:

Abulfazl Elçibay, Bu manin taleyimdir, Baku, 1992

Academy of Sciences of the Soviet Republic of “Azerbaijan”, History of Azerbaijan, Baku, 1958

Thomas Goltz, Letter from Eurasia: The Hidden Russian Hand, Foreign Policy, No. 92 (autumn, 1993), pp. 92-116
doi:10.2307/1149147

Nourida Ateshi, Nizami Gencevi ist unsere geistig-moralische Legitimation. Available online on Potsdam University website in PDF format

“International” Crisis Group report on Artsakh, 11 October 2005, http://www.crisisgro...dex.cfm?id=3740

Emma Bonino’s Turchia page
http://www.emmabonin...mpagne/turchia/

Note: the otherwise very interesting article presented below appears in the trashcan section solely because of the regurgitation of fables of “Northern Azerbaijan/Southern Azerbaijan”, 20% one million lies, and snow job of the sort:

Ilya Bourtman, Israel and Azerbaijan's Furtive Embrace, Middle East Quarterly, Summer 2006
http://www.meforum.org/article/987

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Impressive! Keep up the good work Hellektor jan.

[Hellektor]

Impressive! Keep up the good work Hellektor jan.

Thank you Aratta jan.

This is meant as a reference. Every aspect of fake "Azerbaijan" has been considered and I hope it has answers to all the lies Turks will try to enforce regarding the Artsakh issue. Every heading has been written in a way that it can be used independent of the others.

It took me over four hours nonstop to post the topic, but I will try to post it on a maximum number of forums, Armenian and otherwise. In the coming days, I'll gradually post this on other Armenian forums that I know. When I'm done, I'll ask the users to inform me of other boards.

I would like to remind the members of the new Maragha website. I realized you posted the link too. The reason I haven't included it in the internet references is because it is still under construction.

Edited by Hellektor, 23 April 2008 - 12:42 PM.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Es tsavalun gorts@ chpetqa kori urish gortseri mej. Mi qani or spasi, sra het kapvats mi gorts kdzernarkenq.

[Ashot]

This is a very huge database, Helector jan, Thank you very much for the dedication and the time you have put in this!!! VERY IMPRESSIVE!!! How long have you been preparing for this?

[Ashot]

SUGGESTION: ADMINS - Please pin this thread!!!

[crusader1492]

This is a very huge database, Helector jan, Thank you very much for the dedication and the time you have put in this!!! VERY IMPRESSIVE!!! How long have you been preparing for this?

I agree. I'm very impressed. I'm also very happy that we have such intellectual patriots in our community.
Hellektor is a gem!

BTW, is there anywhere to download all this material as one document?

Edited by crusader1492, 23 April 2008 - 02:23 PM.

[ED]

SUGGESTION: ADMINS - Please pin this thread!!!

yes it is indeed great work and Thank you Brother Helector. the Topic has been pined

[Ashot]

I agree. I'm very impressed. I'm also very happy that we have such intellectual patriots in our community.
Hellektor is a gem!

BTW, is there anywhere to download all this material as one document?

We can ask Hellector if he'd like to make this into pdf and either send it via e-mail or ftp!!! I can definitely make it into pdf format from here, but I don't want to make sure that Hellector has it or not!!!

[elle]

I'm studying Eurasia at uni and my professor just assigned us to read International Crisis Group's writings of Nagorno-Artsax conflict. So we're learning about the conflict through the website of ICG.

From the Trashcan:

Abulfazl Elçibay, Bu manin taleyimdir, Baku, 1992

Academy of Sciences of the Soviet Republic of “Azerbaijan”, History of Azerbaijan, Baku, 1958

Thomas Goltz, Letter from Eurasia: The Hidden Russian Hand, Foreign Policy, No. 92 (autumn, 1993), pp. 92-116
doi:10.2307/1149147

Nourida Ateshi, Nizami Gencevi ist unsere geistig-moralische Legitimation. Available online on Potsdam University website in PDF format

“International” Crisis Group report on Artsakh, 11 October 2005, http://www.crisisgro...dex.cfm?id=3740

Emma Bonino’s Turchia page
http://www.emmabonin...mpagne/turchia/

Note: the otherwise very interesting article presented below appears in the trashcan section solely because of the regurgitation of fables of “Northern Azerbaijan/Southern Azerbaijan”, 20% one million lies, and snow job of the sort:

Ilya Bourtman, Israel and Azerbaijan's Furtive Embrace, Middle East Quarterly, Summer 2006
http://www.meforum.org/article/987

[elle]

Correction...meant to write Nagorno-Artsax or Artsax, not Nagorno-Artsax. Just invented a new name for the region without realizing it!

[Z'areh]

Great job Hellektor, you've published a great body of valuable work that can be of great importance as reference. Exposing details about the lies of 20% Armenian control of Azerbaijan or the myth of 1 million refugees etc...and general historical footnotes are important refresher information.

[Hellektor]

This is a very huge database, Helector jan, Thank you very much for the dedication and the time you have put in this!!! VERY IMPRESSIVE!!! How long have you been preparing for this?

This sort of encouragement was not the reason why I did this, but it takes all the exhaustion away. I'm deeply flattered.

This is what I've mentioned every now and then about the thing I was doing on fake "Azerbaijan". It should be noted that this has to go on. It is just a start. I put special emphasis on the Islamic Historians section. The English translation of the books of these guys must be consulted by you guys who are in the US and have access to these. They give us precious info on the Armenian rights to Aghvan heritage and pulverize "Azeri" lies about their futile insistence on Aghvan descent.

I have been working on this off and on since early 2007. I accelerated the process the last few months though.

BTW, is there anywhere to download all this material as one document?

As I was working on this, I constantly created the PDF version along the way. There's a problem with the TOC links of MS Word in Acrobat. It does not link exactly to the Word bookmark. To do this, you have to create cross references using the Insert>>Reference>>Cross-reference... in Word. This worked fine sometimes, but it seemed as you changed something in Word, even when you updated the fields, the cross-reference got messed up in Acrobat.

Now, the only thing left is to create those links in the PDF itself, but this demanded that I be sure of the version being as correct and as final as possible, because changing as much as a comma in Word would mean to export a new PDF and destroy the one with the links which means doing the links from scratch. I think I'll go with what I have posted here, otherwise the endless corrections will mean that I'll never be able to post a PDF.

I'm proud of and I really appreciate the pinning of the thing on the board.

I'll post info where to host the PDF when we reach a decision with you guys.

Thanks for the warm words everyone, we all have to do as much as we can to counter Turkish fabrications. This is the least I could do.

[Hellektor]

...So we're learning about the conflict through the website of ICG.

It's the same as going to "Azeri" hatesites and "learn" it there. This pile of filth has lost all the credibility right from their first braying about the conflict.

Basically, their sole aim is to force Armenia to cede territory to the sore "Azeri" losers, just like that. The only question is who the hell gave them the authority to issue orders to a sovereign government.

Anyway, in case you missed it you have enough info under the heading Debunking the “International” Crisis Group (ICG) on this thread to be sure of the pro-Turkish stance of this bunch of lowlifes.

[elle]

Thanks for all this info!
It's very helpful.
Will you be thinking about publishing all this info when you are done with your research at some point in the future?
I didn not get a chance to read everything just yet, since it's too much info to grasp at once, but I will read it all gradually.

[Zartonk]

Power to you Hellektor. Brilliant contribution.

[elle]

I found this by an accident when I was trying to find something on Armenia...
Helektor...since you're an expert on Azerbaijan, I would like to know which part of this 'history' is made up?
I remember reading about Atrpakan in my Armenian history classes, but I did not know that Atrpakan was referred to Azerbaijan!

Azerbaijan - the ancient land, proud with history of Caucasian Albans and Atropatenians (Medes), later unified under glorious Turkic heritage and culture. Stretching from the Great Caucasus Mountains in the North to mount Savalan in the South, and from Caspian Sea in the East to lakes Urmiyeh and Goycheh in the West, Azerbaijan has always been a bridge between the cultures of Europe, Middle East and Asia.
Origins of the word "Azerbaijan"
The origins of this name trace back as far as 2500 years. According to contemporary Iranian publicist Seyed Ahmad Kasravi and Azerbaijani historian Igrar Aliyev, who referred in their writings to ancient Greek geographer Strabo (63 B.C. - 24 A.D.), at the end of Achaemenid Empire, and with Alexander the Great controlling most of the regions of modern South Azerbaijan (in Iran), Alexander's satrap by the name of Atropat (Atoorpat), kept the territory from falling into the hands of the invaders. Thus, the land was named after him as "Atoorpatkan" (or Atropatena in ancient Greek writings). The same country was also called as "Medes Minor", "Atropatenian Medes" and "Medes-Atropatena" in later historical records. People of the region (now Azerbaijan) elected Atoorpat as their sovereign and he protected their independence. Strabo, in his book, which was written at the time of the Parthians and close to the birth of Jesus, declares that: "...still the successors of Atoorpat are reigning independently." Later, in Arabic pronounciation Atoopatkan got the spelling of Azerbaijan.

According to medieval historian Haji Rashid Ad-Din Fazlollahi Hamedani, who lived in times of Turkic reigns in Azerbaijan, the name of Azerbaijan might be Turkic. In particular, Hamedani writes: "...when Oghuz Khan conquered that region, he became fond of the grasslands of Owjan, which is a district in Azerbaijan. He ordered everyone to bring a bushel of the earth's soil and dump it there. He himself did so, along with all the people including the soldiers. Naturally a large hill was created, which he called Azerbaigan, since "azer" in Turkic means towering and elevated, and "baigan" means distinguished and famous." Although this interpretation of the name "Azerbaijan" can be valid linguistically, historical evidence is not sufficient to claim this approach as correct.

Few medieval Persian sources claim that the name of Azerbaijan might be coming from "the Land of Fires", namely "azer" (fire) and "baigan" (place) in Persian. This might also be approved by the fact that Zoroastrianism (or fire worshipping) was widespread in Azerbaijan before Islam. However, only the first version of origin coming from Atoorpatkan seems to be valid, as Strabo in his reference lived close to times of Atoorpat, and at the time of Strabo's writings, Atoorpat's dynasty "was still reigning in the region independently".

Sebeos, the Armenian historian of VIIth century, also referred to RЭstДm, the great leader of "ashxarh Maratsa" (the country of Medes) or ruler of Atoorpatkan. Medieval Arabic author Al-Ma'sudi calls RЭstДm, who was killed in battle with Arabs, as "Дl-AzДri" (an Azeri), which in essence means "Azerbaijani".

Edited by elle, 05 May 2008 - 02:40 AM.

[Hellektor]

I found this by an accident when I was trying to find something on Armenia...
Helektor...since you're an expert on Azerbaijan, I would like to know which part of this 'history' is made up?
I remember reading about Atrpakan in my Armenian history classes, but I did not know that Atrpakan was referred to Azerbaijan!

Atrpatakan is Azarbaijan (the real). If you're in a hurry please read the section Everything’s in a Name that contains the headings: The Origin of the Term Azarbaijan and The Meaning of the Term Azarbaijan (Ատրպատական)

It's all been explained in this thread. You can read a section per day and you'll find out the answers to your questions.

Azerbaijan - the ancient land, proud with history of Caucasian Albans and Atropatenians (Medes), later unified under glorious Turkic heritage and culture. Stretching from the Great Caucasus Mountains in the North to mount Savalan in the South, and from Caspian Sea in the East to lakes Urmiyeh and Goycheh in the West, Azerbaijan has always been a bridge between the cultures of Europe, Middle East and Asia.

This is pure gobbledygook. Please read the thread to find out why. "Caucasian Albans" have nothing to do with Azarbaijan (Atrpatakan), Medes are Iranians and have nothing to do either with Turks or with Aghvans ("Caucasian Albans"), There is no Turkish heritage or culture, Turkish "culture" has nothing to do with the Aghvans or Medes or "Atropatenians" (people of Atropatena, Atrpatakan, Azarbaijan (the real)) or the Caucasus or Europe or the "Middle East".

Stretching from the Great Caucasus Mountains in the North to mount Savalan in the South, and from Caspian Sea in the East to lakes Urmiyeh and Goycheh in the West, Azerbaijan has always been

It's almost a paraphrase of the bullshit vomited by Abulfazl Elçibay in Bu manin taleyimdir, Baku, 1992, page 61: "Since hundreds of thousands of years, "Azeri" Turks lived in lands stretching from Hamadan to Darband and from Gokçe to the Caspian Sea." which I have also cited in this thread.

Please do take your time and read the thread.

[Hellektor]

The rest of what you cite in your post is a mixture of half truths and Turkish concoctions to confuse the unsuspecting readers.

Example: They cite the great Iranian Azarbaijani scholar Kassravi and the exceptionally objective "Azeri" historian Igrar Aliev (not anti-"Azeri" though) who both in fact have debunked all their lies yet a little further they recount a cock-and-turk story of a turkdung hill as the origin of the term Azarbaijan!

They quote Strabo and still have the nerve to cite the Armenian Sebeos for the sole reason of namedropping to give false legitimacy to their excretion. Pathetic.

CODE

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~javid/azerbaijan/history.html

[Hellektor]

Power to you Hellektor. Brilliant contribution.

Thanks Zartonk, for the kind words.