34 replies to this topic

[raffiaharonian]

I've encountered several ex-armenians, who have changed their names to non-armenian names and surnames.!

With the exception of Turkey's Armenians , who under various sircumstances are forced to seekk a safe-hide name/surname, would you accept/reject/critisize/encourage/applaude such a desparate move ?

What would be the reasons for someone to change his/her name? Is it OK or what ?

[MJ]

Thanks for the topic, Raffi.

Let me start from the most innocent part, please. Armenian names/surnames are too long and hard for the foreigners to pronounce. Additionally I, personally, don't find long names/surnames esthetically appealing. When my children were born, I had not even a slightest thought that I may some day move out of Armenia. But before the birth of our children, my wife and me have been searching for a month or so as to find short names for our coming children. Eventually, the only names that we found, which could be spelled in four letters (no cynical remarks from the fellow American- Armenians, please ) no matter in what language and the sound of them would esthetically satisfy us, were outside the Armenian realm. So our children are named with names which might be considered universal by some measures.

This comment of mine is just a side note for the topic raised. As I know, you are pursuing explanations of other dimensions of the observed phenomenon.

[ April 06, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

[levonyeshilian]

We're not Chinese people counting over a billion people....If this generation changes their name the next one will forget the language,the other the culture...When will this end?
Armenian people always complain about assimilations but they are doing the worst that can be done....

[armeniangirl83]

We have at home not all Armenian names. We have all bible names and the most are also Armenian names and we have the names from our grandfathers and mothers, but not all. Our surname is not Armenians but Turkish, because mine parents are Armenians from Turkey. I want really mine originally Armenian name with -ian!! I have said it to my parents and maybe we shall dot it!

[Boghos]

I can understand someone changing his name from say Partoghomios, Giragos or Apsaghom to Bart, Greg, Joe or whatever other 2-3 letter names the Americans so much like.

As to changing his/her last name. I think it happened somewhat often in the post-genocide immigration generation. Many wanted to forget. Others were scared of being identified as Armenians (rightly or wrongly so). And of course there is the special situation of the hostage community in Turkey. Otherwise in my mind it is very simple: change your last name to Smith and you are no longer Armenian.

[ April 07, 2001: Message edited by: Boghos ]

[gamavor]

I’m very much against any changes of the Armenian names especially when it is done to satisfy the taste of somebody else or simply to bring some comfort to the person. If not as anything else, Armenian name serves as a remainder. The Armenians from so-called “Turkey”, if they believe that they are Armenians let them have Armenian names. America is a free country.
I personally will change my last name when Mr. Smith changes his name to Smith-ian.
By the way, “SmithsonIAN” already did it!

Cheers Everybody!

[shiner]

I think there are Armenian names which are also universal names (ex. Arthur, Edward). There are also typical Armenian names which are very short and easy to pronounce for anybody. For example my real name is Berj and people pronounce it very easily in the U.S. (with an English accent of course). I don't see how foreigners would have trouble pronouncing most one or two syllable Armenian names. Thus from that perspective I don't see any trouble with having an Armenian name. I plan to give my kids Armenian names regardless of where I live (if I ever have any), but obviously not complicated Armenian names.

Also, in terms of shortening your last name to make pronounciation easier for foreigners, this can be done by keeping the last three letters and eliminating other ones within the name.

[Nané]

Exactly !!! One of my co-workers has shortened her last name from Shahnazarian to Zarian. Personally I would have gone for Arian I think it's a beautiful last name.

I would never lose the ian even if I decided to alter my last name (which I will not, since it's an easy one)

[ April 10, 2001: Message edited by: Sulamita ]

[Harut]

you always think that somebody is Armenian then he must have lastname ending with ian/yan.
what about other endings? (ouni, etsi, ents, etc.)
of course those endings are very rare now but i think we should try to keep them.
i personally think that we should have more diverse endings besides ian/yan.

but there is one good point to it. having lastname ending with ian/yan makes it easier to be recognized as Armenian lastname outside Armenia.

[Pilafhead]

I never knew this. Were they EVER common? That's why this Forum rules--something new about Armenian heritage/culture/current events/etc. can be learned everyday.

Mike

[raffiaharonian]

I am mostly interested to know the reasons that would 'push' an Armenian to change his surname from x-ian to something non-Armenian.

I've heard several pseudo-excuses but basically I cannot comprehend them properly.

I believe that if you are ashamed of your Eastern cultural heritage and your name reminds you about it , plus you feel unconfortable when others call you with your surname, then you've got a reason in your head. But that's a complex and no matter what , there will always be reasons and 'traces' which will still remind you of your past.....

[MJ]

Raffi,

As a comment, I want to point that the surname change takes also place in countries with Eastern orientation - in Arab countries, in Iran, India, etc, therefore, I don't thing it is a Western v. Eastern issue.

In fact, of all countries, it is easiest to maintain the Armenian last name in the US. People wouldn't care here about it - as long as they can pronounce it.

I frequently encounter a situation of others asking me how to pronounce my last name. When I tell them, they say: "Oh, that's exactly how it spells." When they see a relatively long name, they automatically thing that it should be pronounced in some tricky way.

More importantly than maintaining the "ian-yan" at the end of the last name (btw, I do maintain mine, and I like it ), I think it is important to push for mass Armenization of Armenian last names. I am very much against last names like Karagyozian, Demirdjian, Boyajian, Semerdjian, etc. I understand that in some countries it cannot be done, but at least in the free world it can be done.

[Pilafhead]

Martin,

Are these bastardized phonetic translations? For the four you list, what are the "true" spellings?

My own cousins slaughter their Armenian last name. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

[alpha]

Raffi, there are a lot of reasons people change their last names. I had a friend who was trying to break into entertainment industry and was asked by his agent to change his long Armenian last name.

[Boghos]

Aghmug,

I think MJ is refering to the fact that these surnames are actually made up of Turkish words. Karagözian for example is Black eye, there is also Gözebüyükyian, Big eye, and many others, actually the majority of Armenian names are so composed. In Soviet Armenia some people translated their last name to Armenian. It happened in a part of my family.
Personally I see no reason for that.

With all due respect for MJ, that is for me the equivalent of not eating Izmir dried figs becuase they are Turkish. But you wouldn´t have that problem, living in California.

[MJ]

Mike,

As Boghos has already explained, the roots of all these last names are Turkish. As a rule, the last names of Western Armenians have been after the profession of their ancestors (in Turkish). If I am not mistaken, Semerdjie, for example, points to a profession of making saddles (for horses, etc.), and Demirdjie refers to the profession of a painter (may be the other way around).

Dear Boghos, part of my family (my maternal side) has a similar last name – Tashchian. I am sure that if I tell my uncles that they should change it to Kardashian, they would tell me the same as you do. However, personally, I would've liked to see it done.

I have to also admit that I would not have any problems with Izmir dried figs, or any other Turkish goods, or engaging in positive relationship with a person of Turkish origin - as long as he/she is a positive person as an individual. I am sure that you know that there is no such issue for me.

The issue I have raised above has not been an anti-Turkish statement, but rather a statement about us - Armenians. And given its mass character, it has not been a personal issue to any degree.

[Boghos]

Dear MJ,

I know, you are right. But just think if every Armenian changes his last name, what mess we would be in .

Actually this whole thing reminds of me the story about Turkey and some Istanbul bazaaris. Some idiots thought that it was belittling Turkey by calling it the name of the bird, so they started using Türkiye instead. The bazaaris said, well if there is a problem with the bird, let them change its name, the country is OK as Turkey.

[MJ]

Well, in Ara Baloizian's words, it would be the beginning of the de-Ottomanization of Armenians.

[Berj]

Just for reference. Aremianised version of Demirchian would be Darbinian (which is a very popular Armenian surname). Demirchi in Turkic stands for "blacksmith". "Demir" or "Timur" (sounds different in Turikic dialects) in Turkic means steel or iron, like in Timurlan (Tamerlan in Western reference).

[Boghos]

I ws just thinking what the effects of simplification might be in some cases.

Let´s say your name is Vartuhi Tchilingirian Giragosian. You can simplify it to Var Tchi Ian.

This is how most Chinese names came about. Transformed amd simplified Armenian names. bet you didn´t know that.