116 replies to this topic

[Nané]

I think we have all clearly expressed our dispositions towards the current situation in Armenia. And I think I will be correct when stating that most of us are not pro-SS nor pro-LTP. Most of us are pro-Armenia. Our concern is the stability, safety and security of Armenia and the well being of it's citizens.

Let’s imagine that Serj Sargsyan and Levon Ter-Petrosyan are out of the picture. Then what? What should be done? How should a leader be chosen? What steps need to be taken to unite Armenians?

I have been thinking over this for several days now and to be honest don’t have any real answers. Would love to hear what you think.

Also, another scenario. LTP is out of the picture. Serj Sargsyan assumes his position. What should he do to validate himself? What initial steps would help him gain people’s trust?

Edited by Sulamita, 01 March 2008 - 11:59 PM.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Vorpes harci ludzum, yerevi te tramabanakan klini tarber hosanqneric kazmvats mi xorhudi stegtsum@ vor@ ojtvats klini voroshum @ndhunelu u kyanqi kochelu karoghutyunnerov.

@ndhanur xorhrdin vorpes andam karogh en linel bolori koghmic vstahutyun vaelogh andziq - ... handzins Kirk Krkoriani, Aznavouri, ...etc.


ays harci masin arden mek shabat egav vor George Apelian@ xosum e. naxadzernogh xumb kazmveluc heto kareli klini jogovrdi vstahutyun@ vaelats andzanc dimel @ndhanur xorhid@ kyanqi kochelu npatakov.

[Z'areh]

Now that clashes occurred in Yerevan and deaths were registered, all bets are off. The authorities in Armenia fell in the trap that LTP dug. This is exactly what he wished for, now he actually has the chance to emerge as the victor, at least in the eyes of the public, even winning over those who were against him to start with. Now his wish is to be arrested, and the authorities will duly comply, soon after that he will become the new president. Then we'll talk again about the state of democracy in Armenia under LTP.

If the Authorities had let the demonstration take its course, Levon would have lost, the new president, Serje Sarkisian, having been shaken after such vociferous demonstrations, could have formed a national unity government, which he promised by the way. Levon, having burnt all bridges with his venomous speeches, could not have been considered for any part of the government, but Serje could have won over many disenchanted people by showing some humiliation and a true sense of cooperation with many other parties.

Now, I think this will not happen, the polarization, will deepen and the people will demand justice for the reckless attitude of the authorities and the resulting loss of life. I for one want to see those who gave the orders to shoot punished, this could go all the way up to Kocharian or even Serje Sarkisian.

What a mess! And shame on us for getting the situation to where it is now. Already people were migrating out of Armenia, now they are going to flee en masse.

As to your question of what next? I don't know what should be done, perhaps the army can take over and announce new elections in six months forbidding both Serje and Levon to run again. But that requires impartiality from the army, which would be a pipe dream on my part.

Edited by Z'areh, 02 March 2008 - 11:05 AM.

[Z'areh]

Did you see that video where Dr. Samvel Harutiunian says that out of the 27 wounded they have recieved the majority are policemen?
Did the police burn those cars and throw those molotov (ironic!) cocktails?
I think LTP has overextended his welcome in Yerevan. How is TelAviv, or for that matter- Aleppo? Aleppines remember well those early days of Syrian independence when there were coup d'etat' s and assssinations twice every month.
Johannes can give us dates and names.
Maybe we need a dynasty of Assad's to smash a fezw heads and bring peace and prosperity to the country!
BTW. Why did Armenia of less than two million citizens have 9 candidates to the last minute when the US with over 300 million practically has 2, or a maximum of 3 candidates left? Are we to teach the world amen berne mi dzayn" cacophonic cacocracy/democracy"?
Why was I not the 10th candidate? Is it because I "have a life"? I only wish that those comedic buffoons of a candiate who only received negative votes, i.e stole votes from the front runners, would also "get a life", find another way of making a living. How about they dig ditches or fix potholes?!

Yes Arpa jan I saw it, and there certainly are criminal behaviour on the part of LTP's gangs, same applies on the other side, unfortunately. Therefore it was even more incumbent on the part the government to foresee such troubles and don't give in to temptations. I think it is not very difficult for individuals (or organizations) to have arms in Armenia.

There was no need to "clear" the demonstrators under such circumstances. I really believe that the steam, or LTP's hot air, would have blown out soon. But just in a typical male-Caucasian style of behaviour, Kocharian acted on primitive feelings of bruised honour after being taunted by Levon day in and day out. This shows the pitiful "diplomatic" skills of our harkeli political leaders, and who pays the price?

[MosJan]

Now that clashes occurred in Yerevan and deaths were registered, all bets are off. The authorities in Armenia fell in the trap that LTP dug. This is exactly what he wished for, now he actually has the chance to emerge as the victor, at least in the eyes of the public, even winning over those who were against him to start with. Now his wish is to be arrested, and the authorities will duly comply, soon after that he will become the new president. Then we'll talk again about the state of democracy in Armenia under LTP.

If the Authorities had let the demonstration take its course, Levon would have lost, the new president, Serje Sarkisian, having been shaken after such vociferous demonstrations, could have formed a national unity government, which he promised by the way. Levon, having burnt all bridges with his venomous speeches, could not have been considered for any part of the government, but Serje could have won over many disenchanted people by showing some humiliation and a true sense of cooperation with many other parties.

Now, I think this will not happen, the polarization, will deepen and the people will demand justice for the reckless attitude of the authorities and the resulting loss of life. I for one want to see those who gave the orders to shoot punished, this could go all the way up to Kocharian or even Serje Sarkisian.

What a mess! And shame on us for getting the situation to where it is now. Already people were migrating out of Armenia, now they are going to flee en masse.

As to your question of what next? I don't know what should be done, perhaps the army can take over and announce new elections in six months forbidding both Serje and Levon to run again. But that requires impartiality from the army, which would be a pipe dream on my part.

Zareh jan duq Arroghj yev Aveli Lavates m,tatselakerp uneq
xelamit xosqer barekam !!!

[MosJan]

Molotov cocktails where being thrown at them. Why shouldn't the police have protected themselves against violent hooligans? Many of the hurt officers are in hospital with bullet wounds.

LTP should be imprisoned for life along with others that incited this riot.

ov e vostikan@ Hayastanum ???

Andznavorutyun ov $3000~$5000 vjarel e vor unena iyd gorts@ - mard um ashxatanq@ kaxvats e nerkayis rekavarutyuits, um $$$ ashxatavarts@ ( JOGHOVRDIST GOGHATSATS ) "apahhovvats" e rekavarutyan koghmits, mard ov kasharakirutyan yev dramashordutyan orinak e ov kani yerevi amen inch ir $$$ hamar


inchu hooligans ? iinchu iys tesak viravoranq mardkants ov dem e nerkayis RQ & SS rekavarutyunits ??
mardiq iravunq chunen boghoqelu yev kam boghoqi tsuyts anelu ??? Azat yerkir chi mi te HAyastan@ ?? asum en nuynisk demokratakan e na /.?? te yes em sxalvum ??

minchev yerek iys tsutsararner@ mi vnas tvel en vorevitse mekin ??? VOCH

[Nané]

Akama hishetsi te Levoni ghekavarman tarinerin, Vanoi glxavorutyamb inchpes ein xaghagh paymannerum, tikunqits spanvum Artsaxyan azatamartikner@. Ov mnats? Voch nranq ovqer kkaroghanayin ghekavarel yerkir@ yev kmtatsein zhoghovrdi masin.

Edited by Sulamita, 02 March 2008 - 05:25 PM.

[MosJan]

joghovurd@ inq@ ir masin pit m@tatsy

[Aray]

What Should Be Done?

For the start, all that are responsible, aka LTP and his supporters form political and commercial elite should be executed or imprisoned for live. This is something that should’ve been done 10 years ago or, at least three weeks ago when illegal demonstrations have started to destabilize our republic.

[Em]

For the start, all that are responsible, aka LTP and his supporters form political and commercial elite should be executed or imprisoned for live. This is something that should’ve been done 10 years ago or, at least three weeks ago when illegal demonstrations have started to destabilize our republic.

What about the masses of people who have taken to the streets in support of LTP? Should they round up a third of the population and exterminate them as well?

[gamavor]

Here is my take:

First about the clashes. No one can convince me that people are so stupid that they will risk their lives and stand under the bullets after numerous warnings from the authorities if there were nothing at stake. Was it the Diamond industry? The Cognac industry? What kind of peaceful protest is this, when some of the protestors were armed with handguns?

Now about the main question. What should be done?

There should be national consensus about the road Armenia is heading. The way I see it is as free and democratic modern republic copying the European model in her internal affairs (social issues, business, healthcare, military, etc.) and firmly adhering to foreign policy that best reflects our interests, taking under account the big players in the region - Russia and Iran first and EU and USA second.

[alpha]

Shame, shame on these authorities!!! Shame on people who have tainted their hands with the blood of innocent people. Butchering its own people is analogous to treason. I am not an ardent supporter of LTP, however I agree with his liberal-democratic ideas. I am not an Armenian citizen, so I don’t have a moral right to support anyone, all I can do is agree or disagree. I agree that the only way Armenia can develop into a modern democracy is through solving the Artsax problem. I agree that normalization of relations with all neighboring countries; yes all of them, including Azerbaijan, is imperative for normal development of the Republic of Armenia. Armenia ought to become a beacon of democracy and liberal ideas in the region. It has the potential to build a European country, based on the ideals of Voltaire and Jean Jack Rousso. The present situation has to change. The often used word, stabilitiy, should be used in positive content. Stability of what? Authoritarianism. The current regime resembles the autocratic middle-eastern regimes, Hosni Mubarak’s Egypt, or Bashar Assad’s Syria, just to name a few. Moral degradation has engulfed all aspects of the society. It’s like a parasitic disease that’s eating the country from within. Whoever can not be bought (like Arthur Baghdasarian), or controlled (like Artashes Geghamyan) is severely persecuted. Is this the type of Armenia you have dreamed of in 1991? Where the president is a semi-educated former communist mid-level bureaucrat? I am embarrassed time and time again when Mr. Kocharyan gives “speeches” in Armenian. His advisors should have recommended him long time ago to take Armenia courses. I don’t blame him for not being able to converse in proper Armenian. In Artsax there were not many Armenian schools and the level of education was not at very high levels. Do you see his long time protégé, the so called black cardinal of Armenian politics as the third president of the republic? If you can envision that than I take my hat off to you, you must be a visionary that I am not.

[elle]

Shame, shame on these authorities!!! Shame on people who have tainted their hands with the blood of innocent people. Butchering its own people is analogous to treason. I am not an ardent supporter of LTP, however I agree with his liberal-democratic ideas. I am not an Armenian citizen, so I don’t have a moral right to support anyone, all I can do is agree or disagree. I agree that the only way Armenia can develop into a modern democracy is through solving the Artsax problem. I agree that normalization of relations with all neighboring countries; yes all of them, including Azerbaijan, is imperative for normal development of the Republic of Armenia. Armenia ought to become a beacon of democracy and liberal ideas in the region. It has the potential to build a European country, based on the ideals of Voltaire and Jean Jack Rousso. The present situation has to change. The often used word, stabilitiy, should be used in positive content. Stability of what? Authoritarianism. The current regime resembles the autocratic middle-eastern regimes, Hosni Mubarak’s Egypt, or Bashar Assad’s Syria, just to name a few. Moral degradation has engulfed all aspects of the society. It’s like a parasitic disease that’s eating the country from within. Whoever can not be bought (like Arthur Baghdasarian), or controlled (like Artashes Geghamyan) is severely persecuted. Is this the type of Armenia you have dreamed of in 1991? Where the president is a semi-educated former communist mid-level bureaucrat? I am embarrassed time and time again when Mr. Kocharyan gives “speeches” in Armenian. His advisors should have recommended him long time ago to take Armenia courses. I don’t blame him for not being able to converse in proper Armenian. In Artsax there were not many Armenian schools and the level of education was not at very high levels. Do you see his long time protégé, the so called black cardinal of Armenian politics as the third president of the republic? If you can envision that than I take my hat off to you, you must be a visionary that I am not.

Yeah...and i suppose that you're proper Armenian is much better than Kocharyan's. Please...stop with the BS western propoganda about democracy and liberalism...it's getting old now days. Let the real liberalism and democracy prevail in the west first, before you even speak about democracy in Armenia.

[Aray]

Shame, shame on these authorities!!! Shame on people who have tainted their hands with the blood of innocent people. Butchering its own people is analogous to treason. I am not an ardent supporter of LTP, however I agree with his liberal-democratic ideas. I am not an Armenian citizen, so I don’t have a moral right to support anyone, all I can do is agree or disagree. I agree that the only way Armenia can develop into a modern democracy is through solving the Artsax problem. I agree that normalization of relations with all neighboring countries; yes all of them, including Azerbaijan, is imperative for normal development of the Republic of Armenia. Armenia ought to become a beacon of democracy and liberal ideas in the region. It has the potential to build a European country, based on the ideals of Voltaire and Jean Jack Rousso. The present situation has to change. The often used word, stabilitiy, should be used in positive content. Stability of what? Authoritarianism. The current regime resembles the autocratic middle-eastern regimes, Hosni Mubarak’s Egypt, or Bashar Assad’s Syria, just to name a few. Moral degradation has engulfed all aspects of the society. It’s like a parasitic disease that’s eating the country from within. Whoever can not be bought (like Arthur Baghdasarian), or controlled (like Artashes Geghamyan) is severely persecuted. Is this the type of Armenia you have dreamed of in 1991? Where the president is a semi-educated former communist mid-level bureaucrat? I am embarrassed time and time again when Mr. Kocharyan gives “speeches” in Armenian. His advisors should have recommended him long time ago to take Armenia courses. I don’t blame him for not being able to converse in proper Armenian. In Artsax there were not many Armenian schools and the level of education was not at very high levels. Do you see his long time protégé, the so called black cardinal of Armenian politics as the third president of the republic? If you can envision that than I take my hat off to you, you must be a visionary that I am not.

Wow, just wow. Where are you getting this delusional “Democracy” dreams for the country in Caucasus, that has got independent of Soviet regime just 20 years ago and is located in one of the most fu**d up neighborhoods in the world. It time to get back to earth. We cant expect thing to happen overnight.

How the hell are you trying to normalize relations with turks and other turks?

Edited by Aray, 03 March 2008 - 01:04 PM.

[MosJan]

che mardiq kan vor iskapes arjani en Serji yev Roberty n@man presidenty - menak te apsos et mardiq hervist en Hayreniq@ sirum, irents paplik bazkatornerits yevy hamakargchi ekrannnerits

[MosJan]

menak mi harts sireliner - yete voch SS - RQ kam LTP - apa ov ?? gone unenq mek@ ???

[Aray]

du hashiv talis es qo xosqerin ???

Ayn inch vor arvum e orenqits durs - anorinakan e. Ayn inch vor anorinakan e - hantsagortsutyun e. No ov gortsum e hantsagortsutyun – HANTSAGORTS e. Simple as that. Unsanctioned meetings illegal anywhere in the world.

du qez hashiv talis es te inch es durs talis / chap tur bernit

Gna et tonov qo shrjapatum taydashnerit het durs tur, im het tents chkhosas.

[Aray]

che mardiq kan vor iskapes arjani en Serji yev Roberty n@man presidenty - menak te apsos et mardiq hervist en Hayreniq@ sirum, irents paplik bazkatornerits yevy hamakargchi ekrannnerits

Du indz vor gone 10 tokos chanancheyir hima barerit hamar qez mekhavor k zgayir.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Yeah...and i suppose that you're proper Armenian is much better than Kocharyan's. Please...stop with the BS western propoganda about democracy and liberalism...it's getting old now days. Let the real liberalism and democracy prevail in the west first, before you even speak about democracy in Armenia.

impressive

[Aratta-Kingdom]

du hashiv talis es qo xosqerin ???

yete im yexpiyr@ iyd tsutsararnerits mekn er urmen na el er HANTSAGORTS ??
Zinvori Miyr @ ov 2 zavak er korstrel Artsaxum - na el er hantsagorts
Zinvor@ ov 3 tary k@rvel er Hayreniqi hamar kortsrel dzerq@ - na el er hanstagorts
Bolor@ hantsagorts en tsutsararneri mej

du qez hashiv talis es te inch es durs talis / chap tur bernit

MosJan, yete Serj@ liner @ndimadir u Levon@ "dimadir", eli nuyn banner er asvelu. Ekenq chmorananq vor es amboghji himq@ drvec levoni jamanak. Nayev chpetqa antesvi past@ vor shat Levonakanner karavarutyan mej ein ashxatum verjin 10 tarinneri @ndahcqum.

Vochinch yerbeq chi ardaracni jogovrdi alan-talan@, u @mbostutyun@ handep en zinvori vor@ kochvats a iran pashpanelu @ndem artaqin tshnaminneric.


Es depqum stipvats em inqs indz krknel- hark e mi @ndhanur xorhud stegtsel vor jamanakavorapes ir dzerq@ kvercni yerkrum kargu u kanon hastatelu harc@. Levon@ der xelqi chi eke u eli sharunakelu a ira gorts@-isk karavarutyun@ iren ojtvats iravunqnerov gortsi a dnelu cankacats mijoc levonin dznki berelu hamar.