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Who Is A Christian?


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#41 THOTH

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:34 PM

QUOTE (onnig @ Aug 19 2004, 11:37 AM)
The world has only two forms of religion.  One that is true and one that is false.

LOL

false...so what does that make your belief

Winston lets keep it nice, shell we please?

Edited by Edward, 19 August 2004 - 01:42 PM.


#42 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:35 PM

People, you have completely strayed off this thread, if you want to talk about other religions go right ahead, but start your own thread, not here, stay on the topic of discussion please, thanks.

Edited by onnig, 19 August 2004 - 01:36 PM.


#43 Sasun

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:37 PM

QUOTE (onnig @ Aug 19 2004, 03:35 PM)
People, you have completely strayed off this thread, if you want to talk about other religions go right ahead, but start your own thread, not hear, stay on the topic of discussion please, thanks.

Onnig, it is Edward pushing for his commandments and trying to tempt us to stray from the path of salvation biggrin.gif

#44 ED

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:38 PM

Winston, please...........edit

#45 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:38 PM

(ignoring THOTH because it doesn't sound like he really wants an answer)

#46 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:40 PM

well, if this is going to become a big joke then I'll ignore that as well, but as moderators, maybe you guys should enforce some of the thread rules here, instead of breaking them yourselves.

Edited by onnig, 19 August 2004 - 01:41 PM.


#47 ED

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:41 PM

LMAO Sasun laugh.gif

Onnig jan no disrespect just sharing our point of views, by all means go ahead and post, always little humor spicess up things you know. wink.gif

by the way are you Gyumretsi?

#48 THOTH

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:41 PM

QUOTE (Twilight Bark @ Aug 19 2004, 02:20 PM)
Yes Sasun, the only way the explain the horrible characterization of a newborn as "sinful" would be along those lines.

But ...
Imperfection is the basis of life, and more importantly, of self-awareness.  Perfect things are by necessity dead or self-unaware.

This will be my only post in this thread as I have no interest or time to sink in a "born-again" sort of discussion. yawn.gif

yes - of course...well said as usual

IMO any "religion" that condemns newborns to hell (or wherever it is - not heaven - etc) - and this whole concept of "original sin" - even sin (against some [conceited] god imposing such on us)....[edited out] - no friend of mankind or anyone - and deserving of nothing (even if he did manage creation - and of that I am in serious doubt - likely claiming he did such because we are too ignorant to know different)...anyway such god is (essentially) evil IMO and those who push their narrow, hateful, unkowing beliefs on others - and imply or threaten others with eternal punishment etc - I say - partytime.gif hypocrite.gif fish.gif censored.gif boxing.gif bangin.gif stupid.gif thumbdown.gif tooth.gif whistling.gif wine.gif yinyang.gif

Edited by Sasun, 19 August 2004 - 01:48 PM.


#49 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:43 PM

Edward, no I'm not, if that was a serious question.

#50 Sasun

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:46 PM

Onnig you are right, we can't go off topic. But we are just trying to lighten up, and that requires a little going off topic. Such threads can easily go in the wrong direction. So don't feel disrespected or anything... we will keep the thread on topic smile.gif

#51 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:48 PM

THOTH,

The Bible says that you are already perishing, but in death will God's wrath culminate to its fullest degree because your sins are still yours. God has given you a way out but you turn around and insult Him because you love your sin. It's that simple. Turn away from your sins and beseech God for forgiveness, as I have, before you die in your sins. Hell is real, you have believed a lie.

Edited by onnig, 19 August 2004 - 01:50 PM.


#52 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:51 PM

Thanks Sasun

#53 THOTH

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:55 PM

argh - OK - I self editied here...you happy Edward & Sasun....anyway - its just this sort of preachyness (and this - there is one way and only one way - and that is my way - attitude) that makes me just nuts about religion and "believers"....and this is why atheism is not a rteligion - well one of the reasons - I mean when have atheists ever gone on a crusade to convince others to not believe?

#54 THOTH

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:57 PM

QUOTE (onnig @ Aug 19 2004, 02:48 PM)
THOTH,

The Bible says that you are already perishing, but in death will God's wrath culminate to its fullest degree because your sins are still yours.  God has given you a way out but you turn around and insult Him because you love your sin.  It's that simple.  Turn away from your sins and beseech God for forgiveness, as I have, before you die in your sins.  Hell is real, you have believed a lie.

"Gods wrath" ...but a way out - if we submit (hey have you ever looked into Islam?)....

"Hell is real" - really?

Your god sucks and you are fool.....what can I say...(sorry all...)

Edited by THOTH, 19 August 2004 - 02:01 PM.


#55 THOTH

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 02:00 PM

One question - why does the supreme being care if we "sin" ...whats the big deal? And does the punishment fit the crime?

Anyway all just hypothisizing as GOD DOES NOT EXIST!

#56 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 02:01 PM

THOTH,

Atheism is a religion, its worshipping yourself. You are your own arbitrator for spiritual truth. Here is what Paul the Apostle said about this in Romans 1:18-23:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures."

You have worshipped the form of corruptible man, that is yourself, that is atheism.

Edited by onnig, 19 August 2004 - 02:03 PM.


#57 Sasun

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 02:09 PM

Onnig, do you realize that such concepts as "God's wrath", "eternal punishment", etc. contradict to the spirit of Jesus's teachings which is more like "God's love", "God's compassion" ? It always strikes me how many people do not see the difference.

#58 Armen

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 02:09 PM

QUOTE (Edward @ Aug 19 2004, 12:56 PM)
That’s the discipline, no religion and no politics, just music when it is only music that matters

Just I see a new bread of species emerging with shining swords and very much resemble the crusaders, with a slogan “eider you are with us or against us”, some even are cheering for the coming of Armageddon, couldn’t they be more happy, it’s a joys times for them. and every broken sole intends to find refuge in some organized religious nut structures, looks like humanity has taken a U turn to dark ages, and I see dangerous pattern, especially here and in middle east, so my friend I ask you, since man kind has murdered, raped, robed etc… more of its kind in the name of God then any other forms of death, what do you see and evaluate, why is it necessary to convinced me I’m sinful and my sole has to be saved, no I want my money back, when I was born no one told me I’m sin, I have my own convictions, and I very much keep it to my self, and my 11th commandment,

“thou shell those keep the religion to them self’s”

Edward, I do not operate with Church dogmas and I regard the institution of Church (religion) as a dead organism. This, however, does not mean that there is no some good clergy left out there.
Faith, belief, spritual needs are very different from religion. Church is just another structure like government and it was one of the primary institutions that mutated Christianity to what it is now.
I do not get my knowledge about Christianity for one source so that it can be viewed as dogma and I do not view other faiths as inferiour to Christianity.
To give you an idea where do I come from:
- Edouard Schure "The Great Initiates" 1889. The book coveres Rama, Krishna, Hermes, Orpheus, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and expaines why Jesus is AT THIS MOMENT OF HISTORY the pivotal figure and not the other ones. He also gaves detailed explanation of what role did all those personalities and figures play in the history of humankind. Each one of them is a period of transformation of humankind and advance to a new level of consciousness and cognition.
This book is a good representative of where I come from but there is vast literature of many other writers along the same pattern.
As to the religion itself (as an institution, dogma, mechanizm that is very different from faith) it is at this moment on of the greatest dangers as you mentioned. It had a positive role before but, as many other human beginning, it did not and could not withstand the blow.
I have a very different explanation of sin, commendments... which I cannot explain in one single post. Or rather I would not explain it to anyone but rather give the sources where I read that.

Regarding you 11-th commendment: isn't freedom of speech one of your values?

#59 ED

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 02:10 PM

winston please for the last time, keep it clean of leave the thread!

#60 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 02:12 PM

QUOTE
One question - why does the supreme being care if we "sin" ...whats the big deal? And does the punishment fit the crime?

Anyway all just hypothisizing as GOD DOES NOT EXIST!


God is Holy above all things. All things exist through Him, by Him and for Him. God cannot sin and does not tolerate sin and therefore will deal with sin on the last day. That is why He cares if we sin because on the last day He will take every unrepentant sinner and cast him into hell, but as a merciful God, He has given his only Son to pay for sin by the only way sin can be paid for which is by death. John 3:16, "And whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life."
You take sin lightly because you do not understand the holiness of God and the wretchedness of man. You compare man to man as the standard but you should be comparing man to God as the standard. Man fails miserably.

And yes, He does exist.

Edited by onnig, 19 August 2004 - 02:16 PM.





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