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Who Is A Christian?


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#1 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 09:12 AM

In the discussion of who is Christian or not, one's association to a Church or religious structure is not the validation, which includes their outward religious practices and the like. What makes for a true Christian; one who is saved from eternal hell?

It is one who has been inwardly regenerated, a new creature, and in turn has professed Christ as Savior AND Lord by that enabling and so continues a life of obedience to Christ Jesus.

The key is the Lord Jesus Christ and the fruit of the Spirit validates the so-called believer's position.

How do you validate your Christianity?

#2 Sasun

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 09:26 AM

Onnig, you are asking a question that has many answers. Each one believes in his/her own way. IMO everyone who believes in Jesus Christ as God (or God-incarnate) is a Christian. It is of secondary importance how and in what form their faith is expressed. Furthermore, I see no need to validate ones Christianity.

#3 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 09:42 AM

On the contrary Sasun, I feel every need to validate one's Christianity. In God's Word, Matthew 7:15-20, the Lord Jesus Christ is clear about this kind of deception:

"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits."

and then right after that look how the Lord approaches these people who think they are Christians in Matthew 7:21-23:

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'"

so the fact is that there are those out there who think that they are Christians but in fact are not. The Lord is stating the truth of it all.

So to respond to you again Sasun, there is actually one answer, not many. There is only one way to approach the true and living God of the Universe and that is what my question points to; how do you (general public) do that and validate that relationship?

Edited by onnig, 19 August 2004 - 10:03 AM.


#4 Sasun

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:00 AM

Onnig, I think there is a misudnerstanding. To be a Christian does not guarantee to go to the Kindgom of Heaven automatically. One needs to really practice Christianity taught by Jesus Christ in order to have a chance to be saved the Christian way. But one may not be able to practice well and still have faith in Christ. Who is to say that this person is not Christian? If you try to validate this person's Christianity you will only cause a controversy (something unchristian). On the other hand, if you restrict the title of Christian to those people who are absolutely sinless then you will have much trouble finding such people and you will end up with a world where there are nearly no living Christians.
As to practicing Christianity, there is the path set out by Christ, but every individual will walk the path differently, bearing different fruits but good fruits nonetheless. Take the apostles, you can't say that they were all the same and were walking the Christian path the same way.
We can take the same path but we cannot walk exactly the same way, it is not possible. That is my point. Therefore if we try to validate others by our own standards it will be wrong.

Edited by Sasun, 19 August 2004 - 10:01 AM.


#5 ED

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:10 AM

QUOTE (onnig @ Aug 19 2004, 07:42 AM)
There is only one way to approach the true and living God of the Universe and that is what my question points to; how do you (general public) do that and validate that relationship?

Hello Onnig and welcome to Hyeform


I like to stress something here, why only one way? And thatís only thru Jesus Christ? Says who, arenít you forgetting those other path humanity has created, deferent religions and convictions? Such as Islam, Hindu, and Buddhist, Jewish.........etc.

#6 Armen

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:14 AM

QUOTE (Edward @ Aug 19 2004, 10:10 AM)
I like to stress something here, why only one way? And thatís only thru Jesus Christ? Says who, arenít you forgetting those other path humanity has created, deferent religions and convictions? Such as Islam, Hindu, and Buddhist, Jewish.........etc.

I agree. And this is why first one should establish what are the values that make Christianity different from other beliefs?

Welcome to HF Onnig

#7 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:24 AM

Sasun, I understand what you are saying. No one in this life will ever be sinless, we are born in sin. We sure can't live a sinless life either and I am far from ever claiming to be in that position. But the Lord did tell us as I quoted earlier that, "So then, you will know them by their fruits", so that the believer can discern what is true and what is false including who is true and who is false. Passing judgement is not a sin but passing judgement incorrectly is. In the same chapter of Matthew 7:1-2 the Lord makes that statement:

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you."

Although, there are several things you said that do bother me. For instance:

QUOTE
To be a Christian does not guarantee to go to the Kindgom of Heaven automatically. One needs to really practice Christianity taught by Jesus Christ in order to have a chance to be saved the Christian way. But one may not be able to practice well and still have faith in Christ.


Correct me if I misunderstood, but a Christian IS guaranteed the Kingdom of Heaven automatically, speaking of course of true Christians and not the ones from Matthew 7. You also said something about having a chance to be saved; it's not the question of 'having a chance' because everyone has that 'chance' since their hearts are still beating. You are either saved or you're not. The question is; Is one born from above like in John 3:3, born again? That is the question and the answer is validated in the believer's Spiritual fruit.

#8 Ludwig9

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:28 AM

Jesus said to him , " I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. "

John 14:6

Christ clearly states in John 14:6 that He is the Truth, all other religions claim to know the truth but, Christ in fact, claims to be the Truth and not only the Truth but the Way and the Life. Buddha, Moses, Mohammed and Krisha never claimed to be the truth, they claimed to know the truth. When Christ is speaking about being the Truth, Christ means that He is the absolute truth, the absolute way and the only light. He continues to say, No one can reach the Father except through Him.

Edited by Ludwig9, 19 August 2004 - 10:42 AM.


#9 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:30 AM

Hi Edward,

Thank you for the welcome. Well, it is clear in the Word of God that Jesus is the only way. In John 14:6:

"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.'"

Now to read this statement is one thing but to believe it is another. Please read my response to ArmenSarg for an explanation.

Edited by onnig, 19 August 2004 - 10:31 AM.


#10 Armen

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:32 AM

QUOTE (Ludwig9 @ Aug 19 2004, 10:28 AM)
Christ clearly states in John 14:6 that He is the Truth, all other religions claim to know the truth but, Christ in fact, claims to be the Truth and not only the Truth but the Way and the Light.

Agree. But why is he claiming that?

#11 ED

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:33 AM

Just to reply Armen before onnig does,

In every house of blues club here in US, right above the stage there is this arced column and on it there are all those religious symbols and pictures deferent religions and on the bottom of it says, IT'S ALL THE SAME

#12 Sasun

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:36 AM

QUOTE (onnig @ Aug 19 2004, 12:24 PM)
Correct me if I misunderstood, but a Christian IS guaranteed the Kingdom of Heaven automatically, speaking of course of true Christians and not the ones from Matthew 7.

Well, your post is not clear to me. So tell me what is a Christian first, then I will understand what you mean.

#13 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:37 AM

Hi ArmenSarg,

The world has only two forms of religion. One that is true and one that is false. The false form will take on many names and many structures but it is still controlled by the same person, that is Satan.

Here is the difference with Christianity. All the religions of the world are based on human achievement, Christianity is based on Devine accomplishment. Other religions require man to reach out toward God but with Chrstianity God has reached down and saved man. That is the difference. I can explain further if you like.

#14 Armen

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:39 AM

Edward, I am not surprised that in the clubs they don't know the difference between Islam and Christianity for instance.

#15 ED

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:43 AM

QUOTE (ArmenSarg @ Aug 19 2004, 08:39 AM)
Edward, I am not surprised that in the clubs they don't know the difference between Islam and Christianity for instance.

I'm not surprised eider and not necessarily see it as negative reality, on the contrary I indeed like the idea very much

#16 Armen

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:45 AM

QUOTE (onnig @ Aug 19 2004, 10:37 AM)
Here is the difference with Christianity. All the religions of the world are based on human achievement, Christianity is based on Devine accomplishment. Other religions require man to reach out toward God but with Chrstianity God has reached down and saved man. That is the difference. I can explain further if you like.

Hi Onnig,

I disagree with that. Chrisianity is all about the human being. Human being and his accomplishments are the center of Christianity. In Christianity God even came down to save the human being. In fact Christianity IS the faith that makes the human accomplishment as its sole aim.

#17 Sasun

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:46 AM

QUOTE (onnig @ Aug 19 2004, 12:37 PM)
Hi ArmenSarg,

The world has only two forms of religion. One that is true and one that is false. The false form will take on many names and many structures but it is still controlled by the same person, that is Satan.

Here is the difference with Christianity. All the religions of the world are based on human achievement, Christianity is based on Devine accomplishment. Other religions require man to reach out toward God but with Chrstianity God has reached down and saved man. That is the difference. I can explain further if you like.

Is there any truth in your statements? If so, how do you substantiate such a grandiose claim and accusations against other religions?

#18 Sasun

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:49 AM

QUOTE (Ludwig9 @ Aug 19 2004, 12:28 PM)
.. Krisha never claimed to be the truth...

Actually Krishna did. There are striking similarities between Jesus' and Krisha's lives and some of the sayings.

#19 onnig

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 11:19 AM

Hi Sasun,

The Apostle Peter speaks of one who is saved unto good works or can also be stated saved and then Spiritual fruit is produced. The passage in 2 Peter 1:1-11:

"Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you."

If you notice, he lists the fruit of the Spirit in faith from moral excellence to love and then at the end says 'for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.'. If you have other questions about this passage, let me know.

Also, in Luke 6:46 the Lord Jesus asks:

"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?"

and in John 3:36 it says:

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

and about Christ it says in Heb 5:8-9:

"Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation"

Again, Christ is the key.

Edited by onnig, 19 August 2004 - 11:21 AM.


#20 Sasun

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 11:45 AM

Onnig, I feel like my question was not clearly answered. Please explain in your own words how you understand what Christian is.




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