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Poll: what do you believe?

what do you believe?

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#1 THOTH

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 08:56 AM

Yes - its the consuming question of the day - as Gevo has just condemned me to such I'm a bit curious what folks think - and could it really be that bad - as some claim...I mean I have actually been to Camden NJ - and it was not pretty...could the Big Guy actually think up something worse? (well with all the various wars, diseases, massacres, plauges, pestilences I have to admit it seems he has a rather active immagination and his sadism is certainly unequaled...)

Oh and a nice little bit to consider...

http://www.skeptical...ed_concept.html

#2 THOTH

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 07:30 AM

http://www.thespoof....eadline=s2i4585

#3 THOTH

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 12:31 PM

God says do what you wish, but make the wrong choice and you will be tortured for eternity in hell. That’s not free will. It’s like a man telling his girlfriend, do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me, I will track you down and blow your brains out. When a man says this we call him a psychopath. When god says the same we call him “loving” and build churches in his honor.

- William C. Easttom II

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I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not self denial. Love is not blood and suffering. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being.

- Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist

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According to Christianity eternal suffering awaits anyone who questions God’s infinite love. That’s the message we’re brought up with, believe or die. “Thank you, forgiving Lord, for all those options.”

- Bill Hicks, Rant in E-minor, CD

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As a tot I was given the usual terrifying mixed message: a) God is love; and cool.gif If you don’t believe how much he loves you, you will stand in the corner for eternity.

- James Lileks, “God Has Call Waiting,” Notes of a Nervous Man

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When all has been considered, it seems to me to be the irresistible intuition that infinite punishment for finite sin would be unjust, and therefore wrong. We feel that even weak and erring Man would shrink from such an act. And we cannot conceive of God as acting on a lower standard of right and wrong.

- Lewis Carroll (author of Alice in Wonderland), “Eternal Punishment,” Diversions and Digressions of Lewis Carroll

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They say that when god was in Jerusalem he forgave his murderers, but now he will not forgive an honest man for differing with him on the subject of the Trinity.

They say that God says to me, “Forgive your enemies.” I say, “I do;” but he says, “I will damn mine.” God should be consistent. If he wants me to forgive my enemies he should forgive his. I am asked to forgive enemies who can hurt me. God is only asked to forgive enemies who cannot hurt him. He certainly ought to be as generous as he asks us to be.

- Robert Ingersoll

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An idea, which has terrified millions, claims that some of us will go to a place called Hell, where we will suffer eternal torture. This does not scare me because, when I try to imagine a Mind behind this universe, I cannot conceive that Mind, usually called “God,” as totally mad. I mean, guys, compare that “God” with the worst monsters you can think of -- Adolph Hitler, Joe Stalin, that sort of guy. None of them ever inflicted more than finite pain on their victims. Even de Sade, in his sado-masochistic fantasy novels, never devised an unlimited torture. The idea that the Mind of Creation (if such exists) wants to torture some of its critters for endless infinities of infinities seems too absurd to take seriously. Such a deranged Mind could not create a mud hut, much less the exquisitely mathematical universe around us.

If such a monster-God did exist, the sane attitude would consist of practicing the Buddhist virtue of compassion. Don’t give way to hatred: try to understand and forgive him. Maybe He will recover his wits some day.

- Robert Anton Wilson, “Cheerful Reflections on Death and Dying,” Gnoware, February 1999

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There are in fact so many strong Biblical, doctrinal, and logical arguments against the existence of a literal hell that this question naturally arises:
Why do the churches teach it and why do people often believe it?...The churches tend to believe that fear, rather than love conquers all.

- Robert Short, Methodist clergyman, U.S. Catholic, April 1980

#4 THOTH

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 11:55 AM

results so far - overwhelming non-belief and/or indifference.... smoke.gif wine.gif whistling.gif tooth.gif angel.gif angel_not.gif cheers.gif

#5 sev-mard

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 12:05 PM

We're all going to Hell. So the company will be the same as Earth at least. =D

#6 Accelerated

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 07:23 PM

QUOTE
results so far - overwhelming non-belief and/or indifference....


yes Winston - you have converted us all - no more sleepless nights for you. laugh.gif

#7 Sip

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 07:26 PM

Why do I get the feeling "I never vote in polls" was meant for anonymouse and he is the only one that actually took the bait and voted that choice? biggrin.gif

#8 ExtraHye

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 07:40 PM

QUOTE (Sip @ Jun 17 2004, 07:26 PM)
Why do I get the feeling "I never vote in polls" was meant for anonymouse and he is the only one that actually took the bait and voted that choice? biggrin.gif

Guess again wink.gif

#9 angel4hope

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 08:14 PM

IMO if there is a God and he is all powerful - omnipotent and benevolent... then how can there be hell? If God is all powerful, as what Descartes also argues in his Meditations, and he is also benevolent, then how can he let evil exist? other questions also arise with the given facts, such as if God does exist, then why do we have such maliscious and cruel people such as Hitler and Sadaam Hussein that "do the evil deed" or why do we have hunger, and disease, and depletion of morals and values (not necessarily having to do with religion- lets say as some Christians say that if you're not Christin then you go to hell-- not to that extreme-- but depletion of values/morals such as stealing/rape/ father raping daughter... Jerry Springer type of things)...

My point being that, since i do believe in god and that he is powerful and benevolent- (hopefully biggrin.gif ) then i wish not to blieve in hell...or Dante and Lucifer himselves...

I also kniow that my beliefs stir up controversy and can be argued with the fact that if God is so powerful and good, then why aren' we iving in a world that is "heaven on earth" ?... well for the answer to that my friends I think we have to dig deeper to find it....I have an explanation for it... but its way too long to sit here and write-- if youre interested, PM me and I can tell you.... yea but that way you'd have to read more of my "uneducated misspellings" as some people put it--- oh right think they mean typos.... anywhoo... that's a me!!... take it or leave it

#10 THOTH

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 07:59 AM

Angel - possibly the best post you have ever made...hope for you after all - eh?

Oh and SIp - of course - by definition whoever voted the "I don't vote in polls" is a liar.... laugh.gif

#11 ExtraHye

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 12:24 PM

QUOTE (THOTH @ Jun 18 2004, 07:59 AM)
Oh and SIp - of course - by definition whoever voted the "I don't vote in polls" is a liar.... laugh.gif

For your information, I haven't voted on your well thought out poll. That was just a joke, so please continue with your quest for humanity. As everyone here looks up to the god of wisdom. rolleyes.gif

#12 Sip

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 03:01 PM

Extra, Thoth didn't say that you did. He said "whoever" voted that choice is a liar ... and I agree with him!

#13 ExtraHye

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 03:17 PM

QUOTE (Sip @ Jun 18 2004, 03:01 PM)
Extra, Thoth didn't say that you did. He said "whoever" voted that choice is a liar ... and I agree with him!

Seaphan, the only reason the god of wisdom made that accusation was because he thought I was the one who made that vote. About you agreeing with him???? Hummmm, that's not something I would be proud of. laugh.gif

#14 ED

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 03:19 PM

QUOTE (THOTH @ Jun 18 2004, 05:59 AM)
Oh and SIp - of course - by definition whoever voted the "I don't vote in polls" is a liar.... laugh.gif

I just want to say I agree with who ever voted "I don’t vote IN polls" person.
It’s a totally wrong description and it should of red "I don’t vote in polling stations" or simply "I don’t vote" wink.gif but yet he/she voted after all huh.gif

think about it, its a paradox, so the question is. is this person a lier?

#15 Sip

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 03:23 PM

QUOTE (ExtraHye @ Jun 18 2004, 03:17 PM)
Seaphan, the only reason the god of wisdom made that accusation was because he thought I was the one who made that vote.  About you agreeing with him???? Hummmm, that's not something I would be proud of.  laugh.gif

Well, you walked right into it with your "joke" biggrin.gif

Whatever he is "accusing you" that's not my problem. I am agreeing with him that whoever voted that last choice up there is lying. That's all. smile.gif

#16 ED

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 03:30 PM

no i dont agree Sip, if it red "I dont vote in polling stations" and one voted that would make him a lier, but the sentance is wrong, and it doesent make any sence.
so one is right when said "I dont vote in polls" it does not have any meaning biggrin.gif
he/she is not lying

#17 THOTH

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 07:55 PM

I don't think the wording in the poll is faulty.

And regarding the statement I made concerning that whoever voted "I never vote in polls" is a liar - I still stand by what I said - "liar!"

#18 ExtraHye

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 10:48 PM

Look who's calling the kettle black!!!

#19 Stormig

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Posted 19 June 2004 - 12:36 AM

Can I change my answer? I no longer believe it is fictional - I've seen the light - it is being sat on by a giant hippo humped by a climaxing elephant. laugh.gif

#20 Stormig

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Posted 19 June 2004 - 12:39 AM

No need to get all touchy - whoever clicked the last item "I don't vote in polls" could have been feeling cheeky. I almost clicked that myself but decided "entirely fictional" probably needed all the support it could get. I was wrong so now I realise I shoulda fooled around instead of voting for what I believed in. rolleyes.gif




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