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Following Gods Commandments...


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#21 Anoushik

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 04:03 PM

QUOTE (THOTH @ Jun 8 2004, 11:02 AM)
"I do need some advice from you... regarding some of the specific laws
and how to follow them.

a. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They
claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female,
provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine
claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
Why can't I own Canadians?

e. I have a neighbor who insists on working on Sunday (the Sabbath). In the
book of Exodus verse 35:2 it clearly states he should be put to death. Am I
morally obligated to kill him myself?

f. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I
don't know. Can you settle this?

g. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27.
How should they die?

i. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also
tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all
the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?
(Lev.24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family
affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)."

lol.gif

So funny, Thoth! (And kind of sad and very pathetic at the same time. There are people who actually take this stuff pretty seriously.)

#22 Arpa

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 04:10 PM

The Sermon on the Mount has been taken totally out of context. Just as the "turning of the other cheek".

Jesus was one of the first revolutionaries, I will spare the reasons and details. He was a revolutionary in the same sense as Gandhi and M.L. King who advocated non-violent and peaceful confrontation, and as one can see they were all successful as they had recognized that violence only begets more violence.

Jesus' "blessed are the peacemakers" was in fact a muffled and subdued invitation to revolution, escept that he advocated "peaceful" methods, such as civil diobedience, sit-ins and the like.

And we, as stupid as we are gobbled it all, lox, stox and bagel** and lay down our weapons to be massacred day after day.

When are we going to learn to read the TEXT as it was intended?

** A play on "lock, stock and barrel". In case we need to know it refers to the lock, stock and barrel of a musket/rifle.

#23 gamavor

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 04:42 PM

QUOTE
When are we going to learn to read the TEXT as it was intended?


And what is the authority to tell us if this or that way was intended?

There is only one way - the orthdox way. Either you believe and follow what is written or you don't. I have no problem with those that follow the Book, nor I have problem with those that do not follow the Book.
I have problem with those that think that they follow the Book, because "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". smile.gif

#24 Accelerated

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 06:18 PM

QUOTE
So funny, Thoth! (And kind of sad and very pathetic at the same time. There are people who actually take this stuff pretty seriously.)


If there are so many people who 'take this stuff pretty seriously' and there are so many Christian fanatics in the US who believe these to be the words of God, why have there not been any stonnings latelly there?

#25 Armen

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 01:34 AM

QUOTE (THOTH @ Jun 8 2004, 02:40 PM)
Why thank you I guess...oh but you are calling my "realism" primitive..much like the Church viewed Copernicus I imagine...and who says I'm anti-Idealist?

And somehow I don't find myself limited...I'm certainly open to (potentially) believing in anything...I've just grown out of fairy tales....

Really? Didn't know that my wife was passing behavoral edicts resulting in condemnation and death..and she ussually gives me pretty much a free hand in what I do...if anything she is more liberal then I....

And I'll have to get back to you on my (judgemental) salad...I'm pretty open about what I like - do I really have to choose a one and only favorite? Whose rules?

But seriously - this issue is not a joke - when it results in peoples (harmless) behaviors being condemned and when we have folks running around saying that the word of the Bible is the word of God and is immutable and such...

Well if you can call cospiracies "theoretical" (which seems to be your weapon for virtually every case), I can lable your realizm primitive, right? Or with your permission let's call your realizm theoretical.

I don't recognize any church and I view this system and any other mechanizm that mutated Chrisianity to what it is now.

Anyway...You called my beliefs a fairy tale. I want to apply them to your beliefs as well. Let's concetrate on one of your beliefs...Do you trust your wife, Thoth? I mean do you realy believe she's honest with you? This is a fairy tale, right? Haven't you seen "Eyes wide shut"? And you still believe her? Be realistic, Thoth, be realistic ...

Edited by ArmenSarg, 09 June 2004 - 01:36 AM.


#26 Anoushik

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 02:54 AM

QUOTE (Accelerated @ Jun 8 2004, 04:18 PM)
If there are so many people who 'take this stuff pretty seriously' and there are so many Christian fanatics in the US who believe these to be the words of God, why have there not been any stonnings latelly there?

I didn't say there are "so many Christian fanatics in the U.S." who believe in these. I said some people take these "stuff" seriously, meaning they take the Bible, especially the commandments, literally. And as for the question of why there haven't been any stonings in the U.S. lately I'm guessing because it is against the law. tongue.gif

#27 Stormig

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 03:14 AM

Reminds me, I read on an Islamist site that a few years ago a German man had burned his daughter alive because she wasn't a virgin, and the court hadn't given him a full sentence on the premise that he was supposedly "practicing his religion," per what he gave in his defence. Not sure if this is true, but...

#28 Stormig

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 03:16 AM

Reminds me, I read on an Islamist site that a few years ago a German man had burned his daughter alive because she wasn't a virgin, and the court hadn't given him a full sentence on the premise that he was supposedly "practicing his religion," per what he gave in his defence. Not sure if this is true, but...

#29 Armen

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 04:20 AM

"What Christianity bestows goes with us into all ages of time to come and will still be one of the essential impulses in humanity when religion, as we know it, is no longer in existence. Even when religion as such has been transcended, Christianity will remain. The fact that it was first of all a religion is connected with the evolutionary process of humanity. But Christianity as a world-view is greater than all religions."

— Rudolf Steiner
From lectures given in 1908

#30 Accelerated

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 04:28 AM

QUOTE
And as for the question of why there haven't been any stonings in the U.S. lately I'm guessing because it is against the law.


....yes, but surely a fanatic that took the words of the Bible literally would put the word of God before any man made law.....

#31 Armat

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 06:50 AM

My problem with the bible is by the second page I have more questions then answers and have the distinct impression that not reading all of it is actually beneficial to my soul then reading every word in it. I guess I always been a misfit…

#32 DominO

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 08:18 AM

QUOTE (Armat @ Jun 9 2004, 06:50 AM)
My problem with the bible is by the second page I have more questions then answers and have the distinct impression that not reading all of it is actually beneficial to my soul then reading every word in it. I guess I always been a misfit…

If the Bible make you have more questions than answers... then, is it not accurate to say that it is doing exactly what science does? biggrin.gif

#33 Anoushik

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 11:16 AM

Overall I have no problem with Christianity, and like I've said before I think it is a very humane religion if the people who follow this religion don't take the Bible litarally. But it makes one wonder that if Jesus was indeed God's son and was sent to Earth to tell of the Kingdom of God, why did he only come to a small number of people? Aside from the Europeans and the neighboring peoples surly God must have known that certain peoples would never hear of Jesus until technology made it possible. Why wasn't Jesus (or another son of His) sent to the Americas and to the indigenous peoples in Austalia? How could God ignore or forget these people?

#34 sev-mard

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 11:32 AM

Because he didn't. I think those people got the vision and teachings of god in the way that god saw fit for their culture. I mean the world is a mix of all these languages, races, and various cultures. Why would then it make sense for one single interperation of what/who god is? I think it makes sense that there are buddhits, muslims, jains and zorastrians and of course christians. God populated with the Earth with differences for a reason, we the people have yet to embrace and understand that reaons(s) however.

#35 Anoushik

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 11:45 AM

Yes, God populated the Earth with differences, and it's these differences that are responsible for countless number of wars and crimes and human sufferings. In a group of people every single person is an individual with his own personal beliefs of how this world is. Now imagine many different groups with many individuals and you have a recipe for disaster.

#36 sev-mard

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 11:49 AM

It has become like that because the average person isn't a critical thinker and finds it easier to follow a group. Now most/many of these groups are led by power hungry ethnocentrics that believe that their way/langauge/religion is the best. I don't think this is the way things have to be. Believe me I'm no optomist, i'm actually quite pessimisitic, but I do think the differences of man were meant to show man a great spectrum of the universe and god's wonder. It's not god's fault that man has failed to do so.

as i see it

#37 Sasun

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 12:22 PM

QUOTE (anoushik @ Jun 9 2004, 01:16 PM)
Why wasn't Jesus (or another son of His) sent to the  Americas and to the indigenous peoples in Austalia? How could God ignore or forget these people?

The answer is Christianity is not the only religion or the only right religion. All religions are right in their own way, and have their wrongs too. Christ is perfect but Christianity is not.

I agree with Sev-Mard's posts.

#38 Sasun

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 12:25 PM

QUOTE (anoushik @ Jun 9 2004, 01:45 PM)
Yes, God populated the Earth with differences, and it's these differences that are responsible for countless number of wars and crimes and human sufferings. In a group of people every single person is an individual with his own personal beliefs of how this world is. Now imagine many different groups with many individuals and you have a recipe for disaster.

Not really Anoushik, there is no freedom without diversity. The differences are not at all responsible for conflicts, but intolerance for such differences, rigid dogmatism and fanaticism are responsible.

#39 THOTH

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 12:33 PM

QUOTE (Sasun @ Jun 9 2004, 01:25 PM)
Not really Anoushik, there is no freedom without diversity. The differences are not at all responsible for conflicts, but intolerance for such differences, rigid dogmatism and fanaticism are responsible.

All very much encouraged by most religions it seems - no? I mean historicaly and currently...for instance look at this Rudolph Steiner quote "...Christianity as a world-view is greater than all religions" - I mean come now...this is so typical...its always an us or them thing...I mean can you actually tell an Irish Protestant and an Irish Catholic apart? Why T F are they killing each other then...and look at Islam...and - of course Christianity (and its penchanch for conversion - by sword if neccessay - I mean look at the new world experience...and elsewhere...everywhere...)...these religions are ripe with intolerance, rigid dogmatism and fanatiscim...its the Atheists and agnostics and such who are live and let live...

#40 Sasun

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 12:36 PM

QUOTE (ArmenSarg @ Jun 9 2004, 06:20 AM)
"What Christianity bestows goes with us into all ages of time to come and will still be one of the essential impulses in humanity when religion, as we know it, is no longer in existence. Even when religion as such has been transcended, Christianity will remain. The fact that it was first of all a religion is connected with the evolutionary process of humanity. But Christianity as a world-view is greater than all religions."

— Rudolf Steiner
From lectures given in 1908

I suppose Steiner is talking about Christ consciousness and not Christianity as presented in various dogmas. And I agree with the quote, though you can't say that the same is not true for Buddha consiousness, or Krishna consciousness. They all far transcend religious dogma and trascient moral codes.




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