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Is Violence Cool?


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#1 Armat

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 11:42 AM

No this is not a joke. Notice in American colture violence sells more tickets, books, cds and one would think it should be other way around.
Young kids rather imitate gagsta Rap then its peaceful positive alternatives. Are we going down the drain as a civilization?

This is more a philosophy topic then theology but nowhere to post hence here.

#2 sev-mard

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 11:56 AM

I don't know if we're going down, it's seems to have been this way for awhile. I mean if you take into account public exectutions and lynchings of blacks in the White South, that were damn near public activities. Group mob violence has been curtailed some what. But violence sells and it does so all over the planet. I'm a big video game fan and all the fun games are based in shooting, slashing, or avoiding getting shot and slashed. Maybe it's somewhat of a sick human fascination, that is definately hyper active at this point.

Will this take civilization down the drain? By itself, "no", but is it a part of greater problems that are tearing us down, "yes".

#3 gamavor

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 11:57 AM

It is more like a reflection of the modes of the society. Success and aggression go hand in hand. Look at the idiotic TV-shows. Reality shows, Bachelor, the latest Trump game….

#4 sev-mard

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 11:58 AM

How do those tie into the violence aspect?

#5 gamavor

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 12:07 PM

QUOTE (sev-mard @ May 26 2004, 05:58 PM)
How do those tie into the violence aspect?

It is a tin red line that divides them. smile.gif

#6 sev-mard

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 12:15 PM

You think if Omarosa was allowed to beat up the other women on The Apprentice that should would do so? If i'd help her get the job? sly.gif wink.gif

Edited by sev-mard, 26 May 2004 - 12:16 PM.


#7 Azat

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 12:26 PM

Violence has sold for centuries. Just look at the activities that took place at the coliseum at Rome...

#8 gamavor

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 12:43 PM

QUOTE (sev-mard @ May 26 2004, 06:15 PM)
You think if Omarosa was allowed to beat up the other women on The Apprentice that should would do so? If i'd help her get the job? sly.gif wink.gif

She could have beat her up somewhere in the coridors of the building before the shooting of the show, so that she could not show up for the show.

What stopped her? The tin red line! rolleyes.gif

#9 Stormig

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 03:52 PM

And not just the Colosseum but also late eighteenth-century France (quillotine)... And what not... And just look at Brad Pitt playing Achilles in Troy. For the life of me, I could cry.

Typo: guillotine

Edited by Stormig, 26 May 2004 - 04:03 PM.


#10 bellthecat

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 05:18 PM

QUOTE (Stormig @ May 26 2004, 09:52 PM)
And not just the Colosseum but also late eighteenth-century France (quillotine)... And what not... And just look at Brad Pitt playing Achilles in Troy. For the life of me, I could cry.

Typo: guillotine

But the colosseum was a setting for (amongst many other things) a specific form of ritualised violence, with a predictable and inevitable begining, middle, and end. So it had little to do with selling violence as we would understand it. Don't beleve Hollywood history. smile.gif

And the guillotine was invented as a humane way to execute someone.

Since Troy has (from what I gather) had all the mythical content of the original story removed from its script, would that mean that most of the action that takes place in it is now just violence for violence's sake?

#11 Armat

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:06 PM

I am more inclined to view this subject more broadly. In nature violence or violent events such as wild fires, earthquakes, volcanoes bring lot of destruction but these events also rejuvenate new plant growth, create islands in the middle of oceans and contribute diversity of life and ecology.
Just wondering if these qualities in nature have similar effect on humanity. Think about the best economical, rejuvenated periods in human history have often been after terrible distractive wars. American economy grew tremendously after ww1,and ww2 and similarly in Japan and Europe as well.
Could violence be something spiritual? Absurd notion perhaps but could it be the pill which is essential to our long-term survival.
Modern viruses taking lives like aids, flue etc., act like war actuality meaning nature’s population control? And if that is the key what would happen to human kind if we conquer all viruses and create artificial body organs and have the humans multiply beyond earth’s resources?
Back to war and violence and fascination with violence. I guess we all are inheritably posses the spark…

#12 Sasun

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:28 PM

QUOTE (Armat @ May 26 2004, 10:06 PM)
Just wondering if these qualities in nature have similar effect on humanity. Think about the best economical, rejuvenated periods in human history have often been after terrible distractive wars. American economy grew tremendously after ww1,and ww2 and similarly in Japan and Europe as well.

Interesting Armat, but if you think about it is all relative. Peace is the time between wars. You are saying that the economies grew after wars. Well, I could say economies grew before wars biggrin.gif Wars stopped the growth. So we can only conclude that wars are times when the economy gets severely skrewed up* But we cannot conclude that wars contribute to the economy, its just after the war when everything is trashed even a small increment could amount to a big percentage of GDP growth simply because the base was too low.

QUOTE
Could violence be something spiritual? Absurd notion perhaps but could it be the pill which is essential to our long-term survival.


I am quite convinced that violence is totally unspiritual, and not at all helpful for survival. If there were no violence there would be no need to be tough to survive.

* of course, the US economy grew while selling weapons and supplies to Europeans.

#13 Armat

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:32 PM

To add often great art movements are built upon rejection or destruction of previous established style or tradition and the latter were built upon rejection and destruction of previous ones and we are in the height of these destruction movement meaning in Art world everything that is shocking has pretty much done from body piercing performance art to sculpture made up of sliced cows.
Philosophically destruction has its limits meaning if one destroys perpetually without replacing with something equally or greater input then the culture slowly denigrates and extinguishes itself without major upheavals. I see American culture as exhausted culture thrived once on destruction of European old world values but slowly emerged to chicken soup ideology where we got lot of ingredients in the “soup” but no definite strong flavor and poor quality in the end result.You can argue that this is what makes America strong and full of vigor however on overall values including that of minority coltures economical,coltural it has declined.Black on Black killings are common everyday occurance in every major city in US but that was not the case in fifthies and earlier.What changed?Is killing easier now?and human life cheaper?

#14 Armat

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:50 PM

Our solar system is the result of violence on colossal scale and our very earth is the fruit of this violence so philosophically lets say violence is Negative energy or( –)creativity, rejuvenation (+ )and we know already that lot of things in nature that we know comes in opposite forces.
What happens in culture where too much (-) and not enough (+)? Imbalance and unhealthy environment, hence connecting it up to my statement thus far about US.
I am sorry that I dance around this subject but violence is fascinating and it encompasses lot of things.

#15 Armat

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 09:09 PM

QUOTE (Sasun @ May 26 2004, 08:28 PM)
Interesting Armat, but if you think about it is all relative. Peace is the time between wars. You are saying that the economies grew after wars. Well, I could say economies grew before wars

I tend to disagree Sasun,German,european, economies were in bad shape before ww2 and this fact alone was a justification enough for Nazis to start ww2 weather logical or not.I am talking more in terms of rejuvinating aspects of post war realities.There is great amount of evidance to support it.

#16 Armat

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 09:24 PM

QUOTE (bellthecat @ May 26 2004, 05:18 PM)
But the colosseum was a setting for (amongst many other things) a specific form of ritualised violence, with a predictable and inevitable begining, middle, and end. So it had little to do with selling violence as we would understand it. Don't beleve Hollywood history. smile.gif

And the guillotine was invented as a humane way to execute someone.

Since Troy has (from what I gather) had all the mythical content of the original story removed from its script, would that mean that most of the action that takes place in it is now just violence for violence's sake?

I agree,What is deeply troubling how much violence average kids in US get exposed before adolescence?
Even my kids sometimes say to each other when fighting” I kill you” which totally pisses me up and my kids get good education and parenting but think about thousands of other kids who don’t have that but constantly hooked up in front of the black box watching violence in minute by minute bases. One has to be totally naïve to believe kids are sophisticated enough to distinguish character in movies getting blowing up in pieces and song piercing in their ears telling to stuff their own mother in closet and not get influence. This is the massage from the trash producers that they are only providing entertainment to mass audience, which buys these crap in millions, and what does that tell us about Americans? That we are stupid enough to buy it!!!

#17 ED

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 09:33 PM

QUOTE (Armat @ May 26 2004, 06:06 PM)
Just wondering if these qualities in nature have similar effect on humanity. Think about the best economical, rejuvenated periods in human history have often been after terrible distractive wars. American economy grew tremendously after ww1,and ww2 and similarly in Japan and Europe as well.

You know, there may have a point there; it’s evolutionary if you will, the endless cycle of life, nature and nature of things, and this reminds me of a thread of evolution and creation.
That’s very simply explained in many studies.

But as I was thinking just now what you said, well, and I have a deferent question it may be valid to ask, how do you explain Armenian Nation? If this is true then we should be a very strong and every one of us would be a Bill Gates by now or ……………..

Sorry for sarcasm bro wink.gif

#18 Stormig

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 11:49 PM

QUOTE (bellthecat @ May 26 2004, 11:18 PM)
And the guillotine was invented as a humane way to execute someone.

I should have been clearer - the scene of Parisian women knitting while people were executed in series. It's not mentioned in just Tale of Two Cities, you know.

#19 angel4hope

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 12:50 AM

violence has become soo assimilated into out daily lives that it has become a normal aspect that we pass it on as a "whatver" its been there so long that we dont even notice it in every single aspect of our lives-- i guess that its become all to familiar and thats why soem people dont see anything wrong with it.

#20 axel

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 01:47 AM

True it often goes unnoticed. Take this statement for instance "Nothing a little shaving and make-up can't take care of, I'm sure". It seems inoffensive at first glance. Well make no mistake about it, this is an outrageous attack on Sip's gender-classification skills.




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