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Why Are There Armenian Protestants?


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#21 Azat

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 07:35 PM

... The Armenian Church is all about God ...

... Most people that judge the Armenian Church is because they don't understand it. ...


What is so hard to understand about the Armenian Church and it's teachings? Monday-Friday afternoon the church doors are closed. But fortunately the hall doors are open so you go in, hand 2-3 dollars to the man standing by the door he gives you a piece of paper and you go and sit there and when you have heard 5 of your numbers called in a horizontal or vertical row, you yell BINGO and get some money. If anyone else calls BINGO before you, you have to give more money. This goes on until Friday afternoon when the church for the first time in a week opens it's main doors because it is time to make big bucks for the next day and a half. Families take their children to get christened and seem to pay for each step they make inside the church. And young couples go to get their marriage recognized by the church. Sunday morning is when the elderly go and give some more money to the church because you have to give money else the priests can't communicates your prayers and wishes to God. Couple more weddings later on that day and the weeks is over so we start all Over.

Bingo. I win.

#22 Accelerated

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 07:48 PM

Azat, if people dont donate: what are the priests going to eat? how are churches going to be built and maintained? Will you volunteer your time?

And as for 'God doesnt exist, no need for churches...bla bla bla', I suggest you prove this to yourself first by not going to church....after all, its a waste of time and money.

#23 Azat

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 08:15 PM

Azat, if people dont donate: what are the priests going to eat? how are churches going to be built and maintained? Will you volunteer your time?

And as for 'God doesnt exist, no need for churches...bla bla bla', I suggest you prove this to yourself first by not going to church....after all, its a waste of time and money.

Juggs,

1st: huh?

2nd: I do not go to church.

3rd: do you think that the church depends on the Bingo money or the small donations that are made to them. Just in LA each year we hear about 1-2 people who donate over a million dollars to the church. I personally know of one individual very well who donated 100K twice in a year and just 2 months ago made a 500K donation.

Do you know who is the largest land owner in the United States? Can you name a multi-billion dollar industry that is 100% tax exempt in the States?

the land that they owned in 1981 was worth over 150 Billion dollars. I am sure in todays values it will be over 300 if not over 500.

Armenian church specific: how many people do they help? I am not sure, but the 3(soon to be 4) Armenian churches in Glendale probably at best do 1 free christening per week. I bet they do not do any free weddings and probably no free funerals as well.

Go to Forrest lawn on Glendale or North Hollywood and at the entrance you will see 3-4 Armenian priests standing there. Just to test the theory. Tell them that it is the 1 year anniversary of a grand parents death and that you have absolutely no money, but would really appreciate if one of them and come and pray on the plot. Don't be surprised if the so called "Gods people" tell you to go to hell.

People also say that they church has allowed us to keep our language. Do the same with your kid. Walk into Sunday school and see how long they will allow your child to go to school for free.

Look I have no problem with the church as a whole or for that fact Armenian churches in particular. I have no problems with people who believe in God or not, I am just saying that the churches in Glendale(maybe it is different elsewhere) are a business. Nothing more, nothing less.

#24 Sip

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 08:24 PM

... and probably no free funerals as well.

Yah and if anyone could do it, these guys sure could ... coming after you AFTER you are dead that is ... TO COLLECT! :angry:

It's them, and then the student loan people too of course. :rolleyes:

#25 Accelerated

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 08:28 PM

I was referring to the Armenian Church. I dont know what its like in the States, but they helped us a lot when we first arrived here. How does free accomodation (for a couple weeks at the church) and 90% of our house supplies (furniture, cutlery, white goods (fridge)) when we moved out sound - all organised by the priest. And we werent the only ones who were helped out. I doubt the Armenian Church in Australia has vast assets to finance all this, and dont think they would be getting any financial aid from overseas: in fact there were regular collections at the Church to help out the earthquake victims. All charities are a 'business', because at the end of the day they deal with money.

#26 Azat

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 08:33 PM

WOW. Juggs, I have to say I am really amazed. I am not kidding. You will never hear anything like that here. I am not kidding.

#27 Accelerated

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 08:54 PM

I guess it all depends on the priest: but yeah, we got a lot of help. And we met this Russian family who migrated a few months earlier. Father was Russian, mother was 50/50 Russian/Armenian (though she didnt look anything Armenian), and they got the same deal from our church....

I also know a number of families who sent their kids to a private Armenian School, in Sydney. Couldnt afford the fees, so they didnt pay, or payed whatever they could afford. This is a normal school (not a sunday school), and being private did not recieve any financial assistance from the government (untill last few years - change in laws).

#28 DominO

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 09:20 PM

Just in LA each year we hear about 1-2 people who donate over a million dollars to the church. I personally know of one individual very well who donated 100K twice in a year and just 2 months ago made a 500K donation.

Azat, can you do me a favour? Please tell that guy that there is a Domino that really need 100k. :blink:

#29 Azat

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 09:58 PM

I tell him that the Azat Foundation is always in need of money too. No help.

#30 Arad9

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 10:53 PM

Just because there is corruption in a church it doesn't mean there is no God. Whose fault is it that there is coruption? Do you want the priest to do all the work without you lifting a finger to help? If you think there are things wrong in the church, do somthing about it, don't just stand outside and throw rocks. If there is corruption let us be good examples and get involved to correct the situation, not just complain about things. As for me i love the Armenian church i will do what i can to help and try to be a good example

#31 Stormig

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 12:20 AM

Just because there is corruption in a church it doesn't mean there is no God.

I don't remember anyone having said that, unless you are making preamble to something else.

#32 Boghos

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 06:07 AM

The Armenian Church is too comfortable on its role as a "national" church. It enjoys a kind of natural monopoly that has the unusual characteristic of allowing its clients to opt out. That is why the Church is in decline, because it doesn´t fulfill the needs of the majority of its "natural" members, even if that is not such a complex proposition.

It is true that some people mistake faith in God for faith in Church, but that is usually out of convenience, ignorance or both.

The Armenian Church not unlike many other Armenian institutions has structural problems that are self evident. I will not bore you with detail but take for example education. One would expect Armenian priests to be highly trained and well versed in many subjects, after all resources exist for that, and such people are needed. Unfortunately that is not the case. If a church is to assume a true national character it has to be a step ahead and for that you need education and even before that a very specific selection process. Other peoples with "national" churches have always practiced that, it reinforces the pride of belonging...

I am not denying that there are good things in the Armenian Church but as an institution it is too weak to assume any important role. Certainly a much smaller institution than many like to believe. And probably much less important than most assume.

As a final note: it is my contention that many if not most Armenians are as paradoxically as it may sound, anti-clerical. But this is an altogether different story that I may come back to in the future.

Edited by Boghos, 14 September 2003 - 05:00 PM.


#33 America-Hye

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 09:50 AM

Are all these churches just mere BUREAUCRACIES?? There is little of Jesus remaining in any of them left. The prevailing discussions center on doctrinal and financial matters.

#34 axel

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 12:22 PM

When speaking of the Church, one should distinguish between the visible Church, the temporal institution, and the invisible one, the mystical entity which is the union of all the faithful in spiritual communion, through the ages.

As to the vociferous critics who attack the visible Church in order to discredit the invisible one: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. (John 8:7)

#35 America-Hye

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 12:34 PM

Axel,

Who designated YOU as the Armenian Ayatollah? Who authorized you to pronounce Armenian "FATWAS?"

#36 axel

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 04:03 PM

??? I think you need some rest.

#37 America-Hye

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 06:25 PM

As long as there are people with your mentality, I will never rest.

#38 Arad9

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 11:21 PM

Some people like MJ make it seem that we should start another church because there are corruptions. One person (Azat) says church is all about money. at least go during the blessing of the grapes you get free grapes. I thing we have to pay for special events but i agree that it's overdone at some churches.
The Church is not just about interpreting the scripture, it’s about badarak and recieving Christ body and blood in communion.
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#39 Azat

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 11:43 PM

Dear Arad, I do not go to church because I am a non believer not because I think the church charges too much money or anything like so. In my original post I was just trying to tell you the state of the 3-4 churches in Glendale, but I have been inside MANY others and I feel that they were much different, especially our ancient churches in Armenia. But then again i was there inside for the beauty and of the church and not for spiritual reasons.

#40 axel

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 12:27 AM

As long as there are people with your mentality, I will never rest


how can you be so intolerant and still pretend to promote tolerance?




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