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#41 Sasun

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 12:26 PM

QUOTE (Armena @ May 23 2005, 11:32 AM)
Armenism sounds so interesting it attracts me in some way...


Several years ago I felt the same way.

#42 Anoushik

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 12:35 PM

Wouldn't it be for our interest to have our own national religion?

#43 Sasun

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 01:01 PM

QUOTE (anoushik @ May 23 2005, 02:35 PM)
Wouldn't it be for our interest to have our own national religion?

We have a national religion already. But that is not the point. People should freely choose their religion, there should not be conflicts between ones nationality and religion, otherwise the society will have problems. So if anyone wants to be an Armenist that is their choice, but they should not create any conflicts with Christianity. That is not the case with Armenists, they are outright against Christianity. That is my main concern about Armenists. They think Christianity is the cause of our national problems and that we should have a national religion. In other words, they don't care how individual Armenians would feel about it - they have a one size standard suit for everyone to wear. This is essentially a totalitarian path.

Edited by Sasun, 23 May 2005 - 01:10 PM.


#44 Anoushik

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 01:06 PM

No, I meant religion that only Armenians have. Like the Jews. Maybe go back to our pagan religion.

#45 Sasun

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 01:21 PM

QUOTE (anoushik @ May 23 2005, 03:06 PM)
No, I meant religion that only Armenians have. Like the Jews. Maybe go back to our pagan religion.

Anoushik, I added to my post after you had replied. Basically, what I am saying is, if you feel you should be a pagan, please be so by all means. I find it wrong to say something like "we should have this religion" because you are not giving others choices, everyone should decide for themselves.

Edited by Sasun, 23 May 2005 - 01:22 PM.


#46 ED

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 01:34 PM

I would want to see an Armenia where everyone is free to have faith in what ever they want to believe in, but!
All of these people would have one thing in common, when that time comes everyone would stand up for Armenia in any needy scenario you can imagine , united under one faith and flag, that is,
believe in what they firstly belong to, to the Homeland, which made it possible for them have the choice for the choosing a religion

#47 Anoushik

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 02:13 PM

QUOTE (Sasun @ May 23 2005, 11:21 AM)
Anoushik, I added to my post after you had replied. Basically, what I am saying is, if you feel you should be a pagan, please be so by all means. I find it wrong to say something like "we should have this religion" because you are not giving others choices, everyone should decide for themselves.

I understand.

#48 Anoushik

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 02:14 PM

QUOTE (Edward @ May 23 2005, 11:34 AM)
I would want to see an Armenia where everyone is free to have faith in what ever they want to believe in, but!
All of these people would have one thing in common, when that time comes everyone would stand up for Armenia in any needy scenario you can imagine , united under one faith and flag, that is,
believe in what they firstly belong to, to the Homeland, which made it possible for them have the choice for the choosing a religion

I agree with you completely.

#49 Sasun

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 02:28 PM

QUOTE (Edward @ May 23 2005, 03:34 PM)
believe in what they firstly belong to, to the Homeland, which made it possible for them have the choice for the choosing a religion

This seems like a great ideal. Whereas a totalitarian system where religion or atheism is imposed is hated by its own citizens.

#50 Artsakh

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 09:19 PM

I guess you could say i worship the Armenian race, you can call me an Armenist.

#51 Armen

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 09:53 PM

"Armenism" is to follow my orders wink.gif

#52 armjan

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 12:08 AM

QUOTE (Armen @ May 23 2005, 07:53 PM)
"Armenism" is to follow my orders  wink.gif

for some reason, i like this thread.
i have never been to a party where there were less than 2 armen's.
I have never seen an armenian cell phone without an entry for armen.
It comes default right out of the cingular shop smile.gif

Edited by armjan, 24 May 2005 - 12:11 AM.


#53 Armena

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 03:01 AM

I would rather be an Armenist than a christian.

#54 Sasun

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 09:47 AM

QUOTE (Armena @ May 24 2005, 05:01 AM)
I would rather be an Armenist than a christian.

Your choice of course, though it comes as a surprise to me after reading your posts in other threads. Worshipping ones nation above everything does not seem right to me. What about God, is the creator of all nations less important than the Armenian nation?
On the other hand Christianity means different things to different people. A dogmatist "churchian" may call himself a Christian, and so does someone who rejects man made dogmas and folows the original teachings of Jesus Christ.

#55 Armena

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 10:11 AM

QUOTE (Sasun @ May 24 2005, 05:47 PM)
Your choice of course, though it comes as a surprise to me after reading your posts in other threads. Worshipping ones nation above everything does not seem right to me. What about God, is the creator of all nations less important than the Armenian nation?
On the other hand Christianity means different things to different people. A dogmatist "churchian" may call himself a Christian, and so does someone who rejects man made dogmas and folows the original teachings of Jesus Christ.


Dear friend sasun I don't think you know much about Armenism...

#56 ED

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE (Armena @ May 24 2005, 02:01 AM)
I would rather be an Armenist than a christian.



what does privent you from being a good both? I wonder

#57 Armena

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 10:14 AM

Armenism is an ethnocentric ideology with religious and political aspirations. Armenism otherwise could be described as a religious nationalism. Armenism is based upon its nine main principles deeply rooted in the creative and spiritual nature of Armenian psyche and its fascination with knowledge and wisdom. Just like many other ethnocentric religions, Armenism is peculiar and unique in its relevance to its carrier – the Armenians and Armenia. Despite being fundamentally Armenian by its origin, Armenism under special circumstances can be extended to incorporate other cultures of similar traditions and of common ancestry.

Armenism believes that the humanity had first originated on the slops of Mt. Ararat and surrounding land, and it is there, in the Armenian Highland humans had first began to acknowledged the existence of God, His role in the lives of humanity and the purpose of their own being. Armenism believes that this knowledge of divine and the human sense for its purpose had inspired Armenians to create the first world civilization, the kingdom of Aratta also known as Ararat, Arartun and Urartu around 6000-5000 before common era, thus setting forth the precedent for the emergence of other civilizations around the world. Arartun in Armenian means the Home of the Creator, and as such Armenism considers the entire territory of historic Armenia as the Holy Land.

Armenism is different from other religions by the following rituals and practices:

-Armenists pray every day at the sunrise and every day before the dawn facing toward the Mt. Ararat.

-Armenists follow the Armenian the pre-Christian Armenian calendar that was used before the advent of Christianity to celebrate their Armenian holy days and New Year, known in Armenian as Navasard.

-Armenists do not believe in the existence of hell, but do believe that those who don’t follow the divine Law set forth by God as they were given to Armenian forefather Hyek Nahapet will vanish into a non-existence and insignificance after their physical death, while who do follow the Law of God will become one with God and overcome their physical death.

-Armenism believes that all good and all evil is the work of men and is not related to anything or anyone beyond the world of our daily experiences. Armenists believe that the purpose of the mankind is immortality and transcendence to become one with God, as such, Armenists believe that the purpose of nations is to lead the rest of the humanity toward immortality, toward becoming one with God.

The Armenist understanding of God is very different from that of other religions. More specifically, it differs in the following aspects:

- In Middle Eastern (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) and many other religions god is seen physically as similar to humans. It is said that the humans were created in the shape of god. Accordingly, god is often portrayed as an old man with white beard flying over the clouds.

Unlike that, Armenism sees God in the plentitude and diversity of physical forms. Physically God is everywhere: in the skies, on earth, in a tree, in an ant. The world consist of God’s physical energy, also called “ar”. God may take any shape and form, including human. But the human is not the main shape of God.

- The Middle Eastern religions also see god as the ultimate ruler, the dictator, whose will is a rule that everybody should obey. No one has a right to disobey god’s will because this will lead to punishment by god, because god is also the judge of everything and everyone. Men are considered inferior and sinful and should fear god.

For Armenism, God is neither a dictator, not the judge. He is our friend and we do not need to fear Him. God is not imposing His will upon men, but only advises us on how to live our lives better and easier. God does not punish either. He has set rules for everybody and everything. These rules are embodied in the Law of God. And, unlike in other religions, humans have a choice. We may choose to follow God’s advice, i.e., God’s Law, and the better off and victorious, or we may choose to disregard the Law and play blind and be at our own risk. In this case, God will not punish us, but we will punish ourselves by making mistakes and getting into traps and hardships. But in any case the freedom of choice is always with us.

- In other religions men are made of clay, ashes or dirt. Most religions are humiliating man by considering him a slave or animal full of primitive instincts and sins. The Middle Eastern religions in particular went too far in humiliating man’s dignity and self esteem.

Armenism considers men divine beings. This comes from the fact that all man bear a little piece of God’s holy soul inside, the one that is given by God to every conscious being at birth. Given the fact that physically men consist of God’s ar and spiritually – of God’s arev (soul), men are considered as children of God. In this regard, Armenism is the only religion on the planet earth that praises and admires the human nature and preaches a belief that is encouraging humans to be better sons of God.

#58 Armena

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 10:19 AM

What is Armenism?
Armenism is a developing national strategy with a potential to secure the continuous existence of the Armenian nation-state, Armenian cultural heritage and the Armenian ethno-linguistic identity. Furthermore, Armenism is comprised of religious and political components designed to accomplish regeneration of the Armenian cultural, political, economic, intellectual and military capacities in the region of Caucasus.

The political goals of Armenism are the following:

- To promote the establishment of an efficient system of government in the Republic of Armenia, capable of providing sufficient public services to Armenian citizens and securing Armenia’s borders drawn up by the former American President Woodrow Wilson in 1918 and recognized by the international community under the Treaty of Sevres.

The economic and financial goals of Armenism are the following:

- To promote the establishment of a competitive economic system of market economy in Armenia, capable of providing sufficient legal framework for the development of a fair trade, proper banking and commerce that will significantly benefit the country and create large number of growing industries in Armenia capable of resolving the problems of joblessness and brain-drain.

-To promote the development and rapid growth of the profit generating and job creating industries in Armenia, that will propel the country to the rank of the leading nations in the world known for their advances in the fields of High Tech, Telecommunications, Agriculture, Chemical Industry, Medicine, Science, Education and Tourism.

The intellectual goals of Armenism are the following:

-To promote the establishment of a highly competitive educational system in the Republic of Armenia capable of exceeding world's educational and scientific accomplishments that will propel Armenia to the frontiers of the cutting edge science and scholarship, enabling Armenia to conduct a pragmatic diplomacy to defend its national interests in the region.

It is the goal of Armenism to promote the cultivation of a fertile ground for the establishment of the Armenia as the regional mega-center of advanced knowledge and applied sciences, the new Heliopolis of the world scholarship.

The cultural goals of Armenism are the following:

-To preserve and promote the Armenian cultural heritage as the guarantor of preserving Armenian ethno-linguistic identity within the Republic of Armenia and its vast cross-continental diaspora. Specific components of the Armenian identity to be venerated are: the Armenian language, history, mythology and literature, food, dances, various traditions and customs, clothing fashion, arts, music and the importance of building families to enable our nation grow and prosper.

For the Armenism, the significance of the Mt. Ararat and the Armenian language are that of a sacred value in the doctrine of Armenism. The beginnings of the world civilization in the Armenian Highland are that of a divine significance.

The military goals of Armenism are the following:

-To help the Armenia in its goal to accomplish sufficient military capabilities to be deployed for the defense of the country, for the defense of the Armenia's citizenry and its national interests.

#59 Armena

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 10:21 AM

Armenism encourages young Armenians to get married with the loved one from the opposite sex and build a fruitful and successful family. We encourage Armenians to be financially well off before getting married, and once married to have minimum 3 children of their own and adopt minimum 2 other children as well.
We believe that current low demographic numbers for Armenians in Armenia and Armenians through out the world present our nation with a dangerous challenge of being demoghraphicaly overwhelmed and driven into an extinction. Gradual extinction of Armenian people will result in the loss of the Armenian statehood and its magnificent culture that in the past gave rise to the first civilization in the world and encouraged the appearance of many other civilizations around the globe.

Armenian family, was and is the basic fundamental of the Armenian statehood and its national survivol, it is its strength. Thousands of years ago, Armenian family had brought forth the Armenian nation that created for us our one and only Fatherland. As such we advocate the creation and strenghtening of Armenian families. It is our destiny to live on as a culture and to prevail as a nation-state against all odds.

#60 Armena

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 10:23 AM

What is it?-
Armenism is a way of thinking, a worldview, an ideology, a belief. Armenism has existed since the emergence of the Armenian identity. It is a collective understanding of Armenians about themselves and their role in life and the world at large. This concept had no tangible status in the past, because there was no need for its material existence, however, Armenism had brought forth the Armenian civilization of Aratta or Ararat back in 6,000-5,000 BC, giving birth to Armenian nation, Armenian language, folklore, customs, music, literature, science, national cuisine, traditions and cultural heritage in general.

Through out the millennia Armenism was rather spiritual embodiment of Armenian people, collective vision about their national identity and unique belief about their collective role in the world, their national mission in life. Armenism is the concept of being Armenian, the “Armenianness”, the Armenosphere”.

This collective understanding of Armenian people about themselves received its shattering blow with the fall of the last Armenian kingdom, the kingdom of Cilicia in the late 1200s, due to the massive invasion of Seljuk Turks into the region of Anatolia and Mesopotamia, followed by the Armenian Genocides of 1875-1885 and 1915-1923, when more than half of the Armenian nation was brutally massacred in Western Armenia by the hands of the Turkish government and its loyal gangs.

Today, as a result of our devastating past not so far back ago, with the great loss of our historical homeland in Western Armenia and Eastern Armenia, with the quantitative loss of Armenian people, several centuries long Turkish oppression and collective suffering for many centuries, Armenism felt the urge to take shape and embody itself in the sacred pages of our history, to show its true potential and ability to empower Armenian people and the Armenian state with a resurrected collective psyche to ensure and secure our place in the world and live on as a nation and state through out history into the eternity.

Why Armenism?

Armenism is the way for our progress, because we believe that strong awareness of one’s national character, one’s national soul and cultural identity gives birth to strong individuals that are capable of developing a growing potential of becoming productive individuals for the benefit of the mankind. We believe that national identity of world’s leading individuals like Albert Einstein, Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, Lev Tolstoy, Aram Khachaturian, Plato, Socrates, Mozart and many others had played a significant role in empowering them to realize their full potential as human beings, to succeed in life and extend their personally acquired skills and knowledge for the benefit of their nations, humanity, and the world at large.

We believe that individuals become great people in life by first developing their love, care and compassion toward their own family, friends and relatives, then toward their own nation, Homeland and eventually the mankind and the world at large. We do not think that a lone individual who is parentless, homeless and without fatherland, without anybody to care for him/her or develop affiliation with can succeed in life and become a fulfilled individual, able to contribute to the benefit of himself or those around him. We believe that from personal bonds and sense of compassion toward one’s close one comes forth the awareness for public good and welfare, not vice versa. That is, to love the world and the humanity at large, one needs to love and respect himself, his/her own family, nation and homeland first.

We do not consider ourselves as extremists or chauvinists, in fact we do not support or encourage that anywhere or among anyone at all, because we believe that extremism is a dangerous expressions of one’s repressed feelings and emotions, failures and personal problems, that easily blinds him/herself from the truth and the right path leading one toward the end and self-destruction with fatal outcomes to everybody else around.

When did Armenism begin to take form?

Armenism began to take form when Christianity failed to protect Armenians from the ruthless Genocide back on April 24, 1915. When the Armenian people had realized the blunder that they were living for millennia at the expense of their millions innocently dead ancestors in the Genocide while the rest of the world just watched at a distance and pity them, moreover making plots with the aggressor behind their backs. Armenism took shape under Garegin Njdeh to become known as Tseghakronutiun in the mountains of Syuniq untill the existence of the Armenian people and their republic was guaranteed.

Communism came and suppressed the great Armenian spirit but not for long. Back in 1965, Armenism began to recover itself through a new national reawakening on the streets of Yerevan and throughout the Armenian Diaspora resulting in the world recognition of the Armenian Genocide and setting forth the precedent toward the 1991 independence of the Republic of Armenia and the triumphant struggle for the liberation of Artsakh and the freedom for the Armenian people from the communist oppression and obscured insignificance in the dynamics of the world at large.

Why are you so sure about your victory?

We are sure about our victory because we believe that justice is an absolute virtue. We believe that justice is divine and is an integral part of what makes God who He is. Throughout the time, various people and cultures referred to God in various ways, and attributed such qualities as good, evil, strong or else, while Christianity in many cases referred to God as if a supra-natural love. In our believes, God is justice, and each receives what he/she deserves. We believe that justice is the basic law of the universal processes that governs the universe and everything in it. As such, we believe that Armenians and the Armenian Cause are on the side of justice.

Armenian Cause is just, and we believe that Armenians can become the guardians and promoters of justice – the disciples of the absolute truth. However being just is not enough to be victorious. Victories begin with the realization of reality and truth, and we believe that it is a reality that for the last 1700 years we were mislead by a foreign religion, which in many cases became the source of our defeats, such as the Armenian Genocide of 1915. We do not argue that Armenian Genocide occurred because of our Christian religion, but we do argue that the Armenian Genocide occurred because of our weaknesses and the source of our weaknesses we believe had roots within the Christianity itself. To not recognize this truth is to be self-defeating and self-destructive.

When we began first time in many centuries to think as warriors of justice, as guardians and disciples of the truth, when for the first time we began to believe that Armenia is the Holly Land and Armenians are the chosen people, we became victorious in the battlefields, we became victorious in our state diplomacy, we brought justice to our people and to our Fatherland. In Artsakh (Nagorno-Kharabagh) justice and truth had triumphed. God has triumphed through our people and through our struggle against historical injustice and the web of lies and deceit.

What is your opinion of the Armenian Apostolic Christian Church?

We support Armenian Apostolic church as a national institution, which did its best to preserve the Armenian identity, Armenian cultural heritage and the Armenian language for so many years. There are very few institutions like that in the world that would have such a long history of existence and continues work. However, the Armenian Church has one weakness, which is the religion that the church advocates, the Christianity per se. We find Christianity to be a cosmopolitan ideology that contradicts our national character, and as such, does not protect Armenian identity from assimilation. Christianity itself has brought so many divisions to our nation, particularly in Diaspora in terms of different denominations and neo-Christian cults that many Armenians went astray from their culture and gradually lost their Armenian identity.

An ideology that preaches of a foreign land to be a “Holy Land” and foreign nation to be “the chosen people” just contradicts to our own views about Armenia and the Armenian people, and this is where the main difference between the ideologies of Armenists and the Armenian Apostolic Church arises. We are willing to cooperate with the Armenian Apostolic Church on the national issues that may strengthen the Armenian people and Armenia. However, we cannot compromise our beliefs.

Do you not afraid that your ideology may divide Armenians even further?

No, we do not think that our ideology will divide Armenians any further, because it is our view that Armenians are so divided already, that there is no room for any greater division. On the contrary, we believe that our ideology will serve to unite the Armenians all over the world and focus their main attention, skills and knowledge on strengthening Armenia and the Armenian nation around its ethno-linguistic identity, cultural heritage, the Armenian Cause and our Fatherland.

Why do you oppose Christianity so much?

We oppose Christian ideology because we know that Christianity has nothing to do with nationalism. By its nature, Christianity is anti-national idea with a corrupt mythology stolen from the ancient Sumerians, Egyptians, Babylonians and Iranians. As a religion, Christianity does not recognize the existence of national cultures and ethno-linguistic groups. Christianity does not recognize the importance of nation-states and national borders, it does not recognize the idea of Fatherland as such.

Some nations tried to use the Old Testament or New Testament for their own good to strengthen their own nations and countries, yet the Armenian Apostolic Church has failed to do so, therefore, we find Christianity as irrelevant to the efforts of strengthening Armenia and the Armenian people, because it does not correspond to our national character and does not encourage the creation of a stronger Armenia.




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