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God exists!


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#41 Pilafhead

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Posted 13 May 2001 - 07:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Domino:
I just want to know who is Athe, believer or an agnostic here ?



In tonight's performance, I will be playing the role of The Atheist. Although I do believe in spirits.

#42 Azat

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Posted 13 May 2001 - 07:51 PM

I too am on the same bus with the other Atheists.

Although I sometimes question my believes(non believes). This only happens when a loved one is in a critical health condition and I find myself asking someone, something, God, passed away relatives for help. This also makes me wonder what I am in terms of my relegeous situation.

By the way, is Atheism a religion. I believe it could be classiefied as one.

#43 Berj

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Posted 15 May 2001 - 05:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Azat:
Berj jan,
1.Wouldn't this be exactly Darwin's Theory of evolution. Survival of the fittest? (smartest, strongest)?

2.Does this not mean that people in the 1940 were smarter and all that to be able to invent the bomb?



Azat jan,

1.Darvin's theory of evolution is one of the basic scientific researches in ths list of similar reaserches in different sciences "proving" that the universe or at least the Solar System started from the Big Bang. Survival of the fittest is one of his points. His reaserach as well as the reaserches of his followars were ment to prove the origination of human being from the animal. If I remeber right, the Biology book in our schools started from the "ameoba" thing (the first bio-unit that was water originating unisex cell), than there was "infusoria" (unisex mutiple-cell organism), than there were different kinds of mutiple cell organism. On one stage they devided into two sexes (I don't know the reason). Than they came out of the water developing into different kinds of organisms and animals, one of which, the monkey trasformed into human being.

This theory was stating that the evolution of monkey into human being was taking place because of the natural surroundings, wildlife etc. which forsed the monkeys (I'm calling them monkeys but they have scientific classification by historic time and origination territory) to be more smarter (attention!: "smarter" this is the part I don't believe).
Now, let's talk about this "more smarter" thing. First let me give you an example of retrospective comparison of the so called smartness. Question: Who is smarter Bill Gates or Albert Einstain? My answer is, their inventions are different. Bill Gates invented only a tool, a mechanical tool. Now, we must make a jump to the bread invention.
The cultivation of wheat by different ploughs which developed in time, the milling of corn by different kinds of mills are inventions similar to the invention of Bill Gates: inventions of tools. These inventions are a result of human effort to make the life easier. These inventions presume a certain amount of human brainpower and immagination.

The "weight" of the human brainpower used during the invention of bread must have been much much "heavier" than during the invetions of any kinds of mechanical tools, beacuse the inventor (or the inventors) could not possibly know what problem he was solving. Or, to put it right, there wasn't a problem to solve. They could continue to eat the corns without milling them. The only prolem would be how to produce more corns.

To be continued.

#44 Azat

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Posted 15 May 2001 - 10:50 AM

Dear Berj,
Now I see the point that you were trying to make. And while I agree with parts of your answer, there are parts that I do not agree with.

I think Darwin's theory of Evolution had 2 main point "variation" and "natural selection". In layman's terms(because I do not remember the scientific) variation means no two individuals from the the same species are exactly alike, organisms have different sizes, shapes, weight, etc. ANd natural selection which was the key point and it ment that those organisms from the same species that are the most fit to survive in their environment will reproduce, those that aren't suited to their environment will die off without without reproducing.

Now, I think the comparison of Gates and Einstein is not valid because Darwin's theories were not based on 2 individuals nor were based on such a short time span. In the history/time frame of Evolution Gates and Einstein are one and the same.

I can understand exactly what you mean with the "weight" of the discovery. And I do not have the answer for you on what was more important(carried more weight), the discovery of making bread or the discovery of brewing beer(okay, I just had to throw that in there because we all know which was more important), or the discovery of the atomic bomb.

Berj, do you agree that some discoveries occur because of no reason?

One can possibly also argue that there was a need for the "bread". I do not know what that need was, but maybe there was one.

I love to think about this a little more and send you another message. I feel like I am back in school and I have to research these things and write a paper.

BTW: I am probably the wrong person to give anyone insight on this topic. The last time I studied this was when we use to go school on horseback.

Now I have to go back to work before my boss hits me on the head again.

[ May 15, 2001: Message edited by: Azat ]

#45 Guest_Fadi_*

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 04:04 PM

Berj Darwin hypotheses don,t stat that human come from mokey, but that human and monkey come from a common ancester. This is now praticly a certainty in science. There is to much to say, but I will let it for an another day.

#46 hayemyes

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 06:09 PM

I believe in God. I also believe that Christianity is a sort of package. When you believe in God, you automatically believe in Jesus-Christ, in Adam and Eve, in Noah's Ark, that God created the universe. You can't say I believe in God but I don't think he invented the universe. It's a take it or leave it situation.
Concerning Darwin, if there actually was evolution in the human being, why has that evolution stopped in the past 500 even more years? If evolution starts, it enver stops. It's rare to see the result of an evolution in our days.
That's my take on this. Plus, for me, being Armenian is also part of the Christianity package. Not saying that you're not Armenian if you're not Christian, but Armenians are suppposed to be Christians, not Atheists or anything like that. Why did 1,5 million Armenians die? For Christianity! Why did Vartan Mamigonian fight against Persians? For Christianity!!
Anyway, that's what I think.

#47 shiner

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Posted 17 May 2001 - 09:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by hayemyes:
Concerning Darwin, if there actually was evolution in the human being, why has that evolution stopped in the past 500 even more years? If evolution starts, it enver stops. It's rare to see the result of an evolution in our days.



I'm not saying that evolution is true or false. But regardless, even if it is true, no one claims it ever stops. If it is true evolution is an extremely slow process, and the results in humans can't be seen over a period of 500 years, or even 2000 years. By the theory of evolution human beings (and their ancestors) have existed for over a million years (maybe as many as 4 or 5 million). That is how long it has taken us to get to this stage.

Even though evolution can't be observed rapidly in humans, tere are other organisms in which it can be observed more rapidly. These organisms have shorter life spans and generation times (ex. some insects, bacteria, etc.)

#48 levonyeshilian

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Posted 17 May 2001 - 11:27 PM

Both the creation and the evolution may be right..God doesn't say ' I created universe and earth suddenly...He says in 7 days.So it must include phases...'A childish thought but it helps me in my contradictions..

#49 MJ

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Posted 20 May 2001 - 07:02 AM

How about "God may exist?"

[ May 20, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

#50 Guest_Fadi_*

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Posted 20 May 2001 - 01:53 PM

How about "God may not exist" ?

#51 MJ

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Posted 20 May 2001 - 02:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Domino:
How about "God may not exist" ?


Very good. In fact, it is a stronger statement than mine.

#52 Guest__*

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Posted 20 May 2001 - 03:06 PM

What about this one? God may exist or may not exist, but what are the reasonings of the one who believes or doesn't believe in God?

#53 Pilafhead

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Posted 20 May 2001 - 04:43 PM

My personal reason is the suffering I see children go through. No god would allow such things.

#54 Guest_Fadi_*

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Posted 20 May 2001 - 07:03 PM

Aghmug
It's suffering that makes us supperior beings.

Human is in constant suffering, more then any other animals. We have all the Earth in our hand, all these existancial questions, all these problems of life, the day you take away our suffering, then Pouf we will end up like animals not needing to surpass ourselves.

So the suffering is not really something that should prove if a god exist or not. What I could ask is the fact that some suffer more then others, sufferings that are in the level of our most primitive needs, sufferings that do not permit us to grow but in the contrary.

I could say, if a god exist it/he will never allow a sufferings that would not help human to grow.

Never know, I am not an athe not a believer I am just a kind of agnostic, or maybe an I don't know.

Like Descartes say, Dought is the start of knowledge. The translation in English suck.

#55 Azat

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Posted 21 May 2001 - 01:42 PM

Berj, This proves there was evolution...

Posted Image

#56 Guest_Fadi_*

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Posted 21 May 2001 - 02:16 PM

Hehe... good one. Kind of a hiden message at the end.

#57 1Ruzanna9

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Posted 26 May 2001 - 10:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Azat:
I too am on the same bus with the other Atheists.

Although I sometimes question my believes(non believes). This only happens when a loved one is in a critical health condition and I find myself asking someone, something, God, passed away relatives for help. This also makes me wonder what I am in terms of my relegeous situation.

By the way, is Atheism a religion. I believe it could be classiefied as one.



Well, Azat,
You are not the first person to ask of that one being or God who might be able to help you. In the bible there was a place where people worshiped many idols and they even had one stone and on it was written to ""to the stranger God"" well, you see some people realized how besides the idols they believed in there must be someone else who could help them, because after a while they also realized that idols cannot really do anything to help. Our God is amazing because he is not manmade and he does not live in man made temples, but actully us Chrisitans are the true temples of God. So doesn't this prove that humans were not man-made or evolved from the evolution.. ? I can go deeper but I have to collect my thoughts

#58 1Ruzanna9

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Posted 26 May 2001 - 10:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Pilafhead:
It cannot be proved (or disproved for that matter). At some point in the thought process, you have to say "God Exists" based strictly on faith.


AND for that don't you think you have to know God very well???? And the Bible is the word of God, the breath of God. Your faith is what puts you above everyone else, because you are accepting something higher than anyone can every imagine, and as some people stated above, our brains are not made to answer any question which seems to be challenging our freedom or individuality. What is the point of asking questions that you cannot answer no matter what you do, because it is only up to God to open your mind and in time everything will happen because of his will.

#59 dragon

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Posted 27 May 2001 - 10:32 PM

I do believe in God and in miracles too. In my life I had the chance for experiencing miracles...not only by God's support, but myself too. I'm still alive, which is the greatest miracle happened to me till now.

#60 Berj

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Posted 28 May 2001 - 03:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Azat:
Berj, This proves there was evolution...



Azat,
Your flattery towards the femails already looks and sounds kinda strange.
Remember, maybe they'll talk to you, but they'll go to bed with the "monkey". So keep the "monkey" inside you alive. Just in case, you know.




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