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The Invisible World


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#1 Anoushik

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 02:56 AM

Today I was watching "Investigation Into the Invisible World", a documentary from 2003 on the Sundance Channel. Icelanders were discussing their beliefs and encounters with fairies, trolls, elves, angels, ghosts, God, gods, aliens . It was very interesting (well, at least for me). The people in the documentary were so convinced that elves and angels existed and that they actually had contact with them that it occured to me that this documentary was staged. But then I think that there are large number of people who honestly believe that they saw and experienced supernatural occurings. I'm wondering why these things are not discussed more in our daily world (ex. news, shows) if so many people experience things that cannot be explained? Is it because the vast majority of us know very well that there are no such things in our world and have never really existed in our world?

#2 Sip

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 03:15 AM

People tend to call things they don't understand or can't explain as "supernatural". But if in fact something exists, then it must by definition be natural. Supernatural things just can't exist by the definition of the word itself biggrin.gif

#3 Harut

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 03:38 AM

QUOTE (Sip @ Jan 10 2005, 01:15 AM)
People tend to call things they don't understand or can't explain as "supernatural". But if in fact something exists, then it must by definition be natural.  Supernatural things just can't exist by the definition of the word itself biggrin.gif


http://hyeforum.com/...?showtopic=7306

#4 Nané

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 03:51 AM

QUOTE (Sip @ Jan 10 2005, 01:15 AM)
People tend to call things they don't understand or can't explain as "supernatural".



... and as evil, which should be feared.

#5 DominO

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 09:54 AM

QUOTE (Sip @ Jan 10 2005, 04:15 AM)
People tend to call things they don't understand or can't explain as "supernatural". But if in fact something exists, then it must by definition be natural.  Supernatural things just can't exist by the definition of the word itself biggrin.gif


Yes! And No!

Natural mean, something that could be explained by natural laws. Not everything does and is right now predictable. You could reply and say that it is because of our limited knowledge, and I will just shut up. smile.gif

Suppose that we are a computer generated reality, and the one behind his computer is bored and introduce few new rules and events, would you call that natural? smile.gif

#6 Anoushik

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 03:15 PM

Um... OK, I wasn't clear. I meant why we don't see ghosts, angels, fairies, even God being discussed in our daily lives? Why should only a couple out of millions of people have this experience of seeing ghosts and communicating with angels?

In one part of the program a hospital photographer who usually photographs women giving birth said that she's also witnessed death a lot because she's in the hospital so much. And she said that she's seen ghosts quite often wandering through the hospital, and her experience was not unique in the town where she lives. And she said that the movie "The Sixth Sense" was a great example of people in the States not talking about these experiences while people in Iceland are more used to talking about seeing ghosts and don't consider ghosts being anything unnatural.

#7 Sasun

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 11:07 PM

QUOTE (anoushik @ Jan 10 2005, 04:15 PM)
I meant why we don't see ghosts, angels, fairies, even God being discussed in our daily lives? Why should only a couple out of millions of people have this experience of seeing ghosts and communicating with angels?

We can see too, if we really want to and are willing to train ourselves to perceive finer vibrations.

#8 Anoushik

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 12:00 AM

QUOTE (Sasun @ Jan 10 2005, 09:07 PM)
We can see too, if we really want to and are willing to train ourselves to perceive finer vibrations.

Then why don't we want to? Especially when we constantly search for excitement and adventure, why don't we want to get deeper into that invisible world?

Edited by anoushik, 11 January 2005 - 12:00 AM.


#9 Nané

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 12:37 AM

QUOTE (anoushik @ Jan 10 2005, 10:00 PM)
Then why don't we want to? Especially when we constantly search for excitement and adventure, why don't we want to get deeper into that invisible world?



Because we don't seriously try. We think about it for a few minutes, hours, maybe even for a day and then forget about it.

#10 Sasun

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 10:06 AM

QUOTE (anoushik @ Jan 11 2005, 01:00 AM)
Then why don't we want to? Especially when we constantly search for excitement and adventure, why don't we want to get deeper into that invisible world?

I agree with Sulamita.

Anoushik, ask yourself - why don't you want to? Are you busy? Is it something unimportant? Uninterersting, boring, difficult, scary, etc...?

#11 Arpa

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 10:18 AM

QUOTE (Sasun @ Jan 11 2005, 05:07 AM)
We can see too, if we really want to and are willing to train ourselves to perceive finer vibrations.


Maybe you should ask Sasun what he has been smoking.
Is he sharing that pipe, loaded with LSD and peyote with that hashish head John, who wrote the book of Revelation, aka Hallucination.

#12 Sasun

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 10:26 AM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Jan 11 2005, 11:18 AM)
Maybe you should ask Sasun what he has been smoking.
Is he sharing that pipe, loaded with LSD and peyote with that hashish head John, who wrote the book of Revelation, aka Hallucination.

You are too ignorant and too pretentious at the same time, the best thing for you is to shut up and mind your business where your "authoritative" opinion was not asked. I have told you on several occassions quite politely, but you don't understand it, neither you deserve... so, once again, shut up and mind your business.

#13 Azat

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 04:19 PM

QUOTE (anoushik @ Jan 10 2005, 10:00 PM)
Then why don't we want to? Especially when we constantly search for excitement and adventure, why don't we want to get deeper into that invisible world?



Because the is no SCIENCE that can prove that they exist. Only fate and when you try to ask questions of people who see these ghosts and God and such they can NEVER prove you wrong.

#14 Nefertiti

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 04:33 PM

QUOTE (anoushik @ Jan 11 2005, 12:00 AM)
Then why don't we want to? Especially when we constantly search for excitement and adventure, why don't we want to get deeper into that invisible world?



Have you ask yourself, why do we want to? Human kind gets bored from reality itself and enters the invisible world. Why believe in supernatural? Why not honor, love, virtues, etc.. Have you noticed people are more proud (selfish) then honorable (selfless). The weaker the soul the deeper they dig into invisible world. Illusion, that's all.

#15 Sasun

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 06:29 PM

QUOTE
The weaker the soul the deeper they dig into invisible world.  Illusion, that's all.

Nefertititi, it seems that you have not had any experiences having to do with the worlds beyond. But I am just curious, how do you know that it is an illusion? If you can't see something then it is illusion? What if you saw something, lets' say an angel or other things that you think do not exist. Would you still believe that it is an illusion? What if you could talk to the angel?

BTW, you have a belief about the soul: what is a soul to you? smile.gif

Edited by Sasun, 11 January 2005 - 06:29 PM.


#16 Sasun

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 06:41 PM

QUOTE (Azat @ Jan 11 2005, 05:19 PM)
Because the is no SCIENCE that can prove that they exist.  Only fate and when you try to ask questions of people who see these ghosts and God and such they can NEVER prove you wrong.

Azat, you are right, the sciences that we commonly know cannot prove anything. That's because they are physical sciences. In theory already they would not be able to prove anything metaphysical, immaterial.
On the other hand, there is a science called spiritual science, which does not deal with the physical world but nevertheless methodology quite similar to scientific methodology. For example, in physical sciences we tend to believe something to exist if we can see it repeatedly. The Sun exists because we have all seen it, and we can see it again and again. Nobody will fail to see it as long as they have eyes.
In spiritual science too, there is an eye that can see things that ordinary eyes cannot see. Everyone has this eye, except it is closed and dormant, hence we don't see anything else than the physical. But once this eye is open, you will see the suns and moons of the worlds beyond, and you will never fail to see them as long as they exist. Others can also see the same things just like you do, which is further proof that they exist. It is no less reality than the reality commonlhy known. You can see it, I can see it, everyone can see it if we really open our eyes.
Currently our state is the state of a blind man. Blind men don't see any sun or moon, hence they have to believe others, or have faith in their words. Something that they maynot always do. So are we, we may believe in angels, or we may not believe. That has nothing to do with reality. The only thing we can be sure about is knowing first hand.

#17 Nefertiti

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 06:59 PM

QUOTE (Sasun @ Jan 11 2005, 06:29 PM)
Nefertititi, it seems that you have not had any experiences having to do with the worlds beyond. But I am just curious, how do you know that it is an illusion? If you can't see something then it is illusion? What if you saw something, lets' say an angel or other things that you think do not exist. Would you still believe that it is an illusion? What if you could talk to the angel?

BTW, you have a belief about the soul: what is a soul to you?  smile.gif


My beliefs are more rational, realistic then imaginative. That's me. Those who see angels, they believe in them so strongly that they actually visualize them. It won't happen to me, Fortunately or Unfortunately
Soul is your inner dept as long as you are alive.. It moves you, the source of emotional world in the body. I can go on and its just my belief. There are no right or wrong answers, everyone has his/her own.

#18 Azat

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 07:04 PM

That is exactly what I do not believe in Sasun. I don't believe in things that a person cannot show me.

Spirituality is not a science, people call it a "science" to give it more weigh.

#19 Sasun

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 07:06 PM

QUOTE (Nefertiti @ Jan 11 2005, 07:59 PM)
Those who see angels, they believe in them so strongly that they actually visualize them. 

You see, that's the problem. You and many others think that some people can visualize an angel and think that they saw an angel. This is what you believe, but is it what actually happens? While it is a possibility, there have been many instances where the person neither thought about nor bothered to imagine an angel, but saw one anyway, in quite normal circmstances. And why do you assume that you can tell reality from imagination, but others somehow are not successful doing it and confuse imagination with reality?

#20 Sasun

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 07:09 PM

QUOTE (Azat @ Jan 11 2005, 08:04 PM)
That is exactly what I do not believe in Sasun.  I don't believe in things that a person cannot show me.

Spirituality is not a science, people call it a "science" to give it more weigh.

Azat, please close your eyes, I will show you an apple. Can you see it? No. You must open your eyes, then you can see.

And by the way, spirituality is not what I am calling science, but there is a spiritual science also, which basically is practice certain practices.

Edited by Sasun, 11 January 2005 - 07:10 PM.





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