39 replies to this topic

[Killuminati]

I know that he directed Ararat, i was gonna watch that movie but everyone said its not worth it so i didn't see it

but i came across this

http://www.apple.com...etruthlies.html

[Anoushik]

Watch it. Ararat I mean.

[Armat]

Few points I learned over many discussions about this director and my own experience.
While many who watched the movie projected their own expectations to what form, style, content the movie should of been came away disappointed and to them I will say this.
Egoyan is an intellectual in literal sense and in general terms lacks emotional impact and his movies seem more product of someone methodically thinking through a plot and painfully trying to make them look like Egoyan. That is very much evident in "Ararat" and "Calendars"
I always view great Art as a combination of intellect and emotion in perfect equilibrium when everything comes together to create something bigger then those two aspects. Watch Tarkovsky's “Solaris” and you'll understand what I mean.
I personally would not recommend none Armenian to watch Ararat if they wanted to learned about AG since it falls short in this respect

[Arvestaked]

All of Egoyan's movies are great. Some are brilliant. Your friend who said Ararat was not worth watching is not worth talking to.

[Arvestaked]

I have a feeling, though, that Where the Truth Lies will be better for you. I think it'll be his most commercial release.

[Verginne]

I didn't want to see Ararat because most people I know said it wasn't a worthwhile movie. But my curiosity eventually won out.

I must say there is a lot that's BAD about the movie. The AG is considerably played down. I suppose the distributors didn't want any competition for the holohoax. You get the feeling that most non-Armenians would come away from the movie saying, "Is that all there is to it?" Not a very good impression. It needed to be more graphic.

There were some aspects that were completely absurd. Like the dumb girl drug dealer that destroys Gorky's work. She was a total waste. The stupid getting caught with heroin in the film cans...lame. The turkish fag that everyone had to thank so sickeningly for his work in the movie. I mean kiss kiss suck suck, here is some wine you poor, misunderstood turk.

The two major redeeming things in the film are the Gorky character and the Levon character who goes out to shoot up the turks after they kill his kid. A real tear jerker.

Maybe that will help you decide about seeing the movie. Oh yea, the music was fanastic at least.

Edited by Verginne, 09 September 2005 - 07:45 PM.

[mamigon]

My goodness, what a perceptive and sensitively written critical assessment of the film! With astute viewers like you in the audience a filmmaker's job must truly be a pleasant one. "It needed to be more graphic" presumably so you could get off on that? Perhaps more rapes? Maybe a half-hour dream sequence of killing "Turkish fags"? And "holohoax" is good, too -- I mean, if we can't recycle neo-nazi white supremacist rhetoric, how will we ever get justice for ourselves? Bravo, my friend.

I didn't want to see Ararat because most people I know said it wasn't a worthwhile movie.  But my curiosity eventually won out.

I must say there is a lot that's BAD about the movie.  The AG is considerably played down.  I suppose the distributors didn't want any competition for the holohoax.  You get the feeling that most non-Armenians would come away from the movie saying, "Is that all there is to it?"  Not a very good impression.  It needed to be more graphic.

There were some aspects that were completely absurd.  Like the dumb girl drug dealer that destroys Gorky's work.  She was a total waste.  The stupid getting caught with heroin in the film cans...lame.  The turkish fag that everyone had to thank so sickeningly for his work in the movie.  I mean kiss kiss suck suck, here is some wine you poor, misunderstood turk.

The two major redeeming things in the film are the Gorky character and the Levon character who goes out to shoot up the turks after they kill his kid.  A real tear jerker.

Maybe that will help you decide about seeing the movie.  Oh yea, the music was fanastic at least.

[Arvestaked]

I didn't want to see Ararat because most people I know said it wasn't a worthwhile movie.  But my curiosity eventually won out.

I must say there is a lot that's BAD about the movie.  The AG is considerably played down.  I suppose the distributors didn't want any competition for the holohoax.  You get the feeling that most non-Armenians would come away from the movie saying, "Is that all there is to it?"  Not a very good impression.  It needed to be more graphic.

There were some aspects that were completely absurd.  Like the dumb girl drug dealer that destroys Gorky's work.  She was a total waste.  The stupid getting caught with heroin in the film cans...lame.  The turkish fag that everyone had to thank so sickeningly for his work in the movie.  I mean kiss kiss suck suck, here is some wine you poor, misunderstood turk.

The two major redeeming things in the film are the Gorky character and the Levon character who goes out to shoot up the turks after they kill his kid.  A real tear jerker.

Maybe that will help you decide about seeing the movie.  Oh yea, the music was fanastic at least.

God damn, stuff like this ticks me off. These are things that are BAD about the film? No! They are things about the film that were not what you were expecting because you, like the rest of the Armenian community were too busy creating Egoyan's film for him before he even released it. If you knew anything you'd know that it was never his intension to create a film that was not true to his art. This film is an Egoyan film from top to bottom and that quality is what has gotten him all the respect from the artistic community that we all like him for. I would not have wanted it any other way. If you were any sort of an Armenian you would support him... he who knows much more about the art of film than any of us. But no, we need to tear him down because he didn't sacrifice what he has worked for for 25 years to become a pathetic propaganda tool.

[Verginne]

God damn, stuff like this ticks me off. These are things that are BAD about the film? No! They are things about the film that were not what you were expecting because you, like the rest of the Armenian community were too busy creating Egoyan's film for him before he even released it. If you knew anything you'd know that it was never his intension to create a film that was not true to his art.  This film is an Egoyan film from top to bottom and that quality is what has gotten him all the respect from the artistic community that we all like him for. I would not have wanted it any other way. If you were any sort of an Armenian you would support him... he who knows much more about the art of film than any of us. But no, we need to tear him down because he didn't sacrifice what he has worked for for 25 years to become a pathetic propaganda tool.

If Egoyan wanted to use the AG to sell his form of art, we have every right to criticize him. His "story within a story" would have gotten him nowhere on its own. I don't appreciate the AG being severely minimized by his artsy fartsy film.

People were expecting something better. Probably most members of the community could have created a better movie on the AG. Speaking of propaganda films, I bet you cried waves of bitter tears during Schindler's List, The Diary of Ann Frank and all those other sobfests. But that's not propaganda now is it?

I see his next movie got him a triple X rating.

[Verginne]

My goodness, what a perceptive and sensitively written critical assessment of the film!  With astute viewers like you in the audience a filmmaker's job must truly be a pleasant one.  "It needed to be more graphic" presumably so you could get off on that?  Perhaps more rapes?  Maybe a half-hour dream sequence of killing "Turkish fags"?

You are being an absurd and intolerant bigot by suggesting that we have to like this guy's movie and nobody better DARE to criticize. Pffffffffffttttttttt. Get off on these scenes...don't make me laugh. You know perfectly well what I am saying and by ALL Hollywood standards this film fell exceedingly short to show the true picture of what happened during the AG. It would be better had he never made a film on the subject rather than downplay and minimize the AG.

And "holohoax" is good, too -- I mean, if we can't recycle neo-nazi white supremacist rhetoric, how will we ever get justice for ourselves?  Bravo, my friend.

There is nothing neo-nazi white supremacist about refusing to be sucked in by lies. Let's see you call jews all kinds of idiotic names for denying the AG. I dare you...I double triple dog dare you to criticize the jews for denying the AG

Let us see you call them neo-turk jewish supremacists. For starters...

[Anoushik]

A couple of months ago I was looking through the several websites dealing with the Armenian Genocide. In one of them I came across the brilliantly written essay about the film "Ararat" by Atom Egoyan detailing his reasons for making the movie the way he did. Unfortunately I've completely forgotten which website it was and I still can't find it after a thorough search. Has anyone read the essay or knows about AG websites that publish articles about AG written by influential people?

The essay is an excellent source for understanding "Ararat" (obviously). Egoyan wrote that this film could not possibly have been one of those traditional films that depict history in a fictionalized manner, like most Holocaust movies. After watching Holocaust movies we get some sense of the events that took place. He writes that "Ararat" could not yet have been such a film because our history is unresolved. Not only did such horror, like the genocide, happen in our history, and not only do we have to live with such awful truth, but our past is still not resolved, and every single one of our fellow Armenians has to deal with it his entire life. (I wish I could bettter clarify what he wrote, but I'm unable to do so. It would be best for everyone who's concerned about this film to read his essay. I'll continue to search for the essay whenever possible.)

[Anoushik]

You know perfectly well what I am saying and by ALL Hollywood standards this film fell exceedingly short to show the true picture of what happened during the AG.

... And it's such a good thing. Who has respect for Hollywood nowadays, especially for the kind of "historic" movies that they make?

[Anoushik]

And to add to my comment... I don't believe any event that is depicted in one of those historical movies, and I'm sure most people don't either. Those movies are there only for entertainment purposes. Why should the Armenian Genocide be turned into an entertainment?

Ex. I saw "The Pianist" a couple of years ago. Except for the story line about a pianist trapped in Nazi Europe the rest I didn't have to really see to know and realize that horrible things happen to people during genocide. I mean, common, this is genocide we're talking about. But I did stay to see how the life of this particular man, this pianist, would turn out. It didn't make me more educated about the Holocaust. If this is a bad example, let's discuss some of the Hollywood movies you'd like "Ararat" to be like.

And about "Ararat": It had everything. It both introduced the viewers to the Turkish monsters killing and raping our Armenian women and men a century ago, and it showed the trauma every Armenian on this earth feels and experiences when coming of age one realizes the terrible injustices done to our people by not accepting that such an event actually happened.

[Verginne]

... And it's such a good thing. Who has respect for Hollywood nowadays, especially for the kind of "historic" movies that they make?

Good point. I should have worded that differently for sure. Most Hollywood movies are so full of BS.

Of course, a movie on the AG most certainly doesn't need such BS. What I mean to say is any movie on the subject should be dedicated to truth first and foremost, unlike Hollywood. There is absoluely no need for exaggerations of the Hollywood variety, but by the same token people have to get a clear, true picture of what happened and don't go trying, as he freely admitted, not to paint the turks like the mosters they really were. There is no way you can make a true movie on the AG that does not make turks look like monsters.

Why was he so concerned about making the turks look like monsters??

Edited by Verginne, 12 September 2005 - 08:44 PM.

[Anoushik]

Why was he so concerned about making the turks look like monsters??

Politics?

Recently I had a major fight with my boss, and I was ready to quit my job. She's an idiot. But I realized that I can't quit my job, not yet, and idiot or not I'd have to be stuck with her for at least a couple of more months before go on my own (teaching privately, as opposed to in somebody else's studio with a fool for a boss). But I knew that if I insulted her, yelled at her, and quit (what I really wanted to do) in reality it would only hurt me - I wouldn't have a job. So, when she called the next day and spilled her guts at me, and I yelled back a couple of times I understood that she really, really can't fire me. My students like me, and both she benefits that I stay (she'll lose students if I quit) and I benefit to stay (because I get paid). When the time comes (hopefully in a couple of months), I'll quit, and make sure to let her know that I think of her to be a fool. So, we both calmed down, and decided to put whatever happened past us. Politics.

[DominO]

God damn, stuff like this ticks me off. These are things that are BAD about the film? No! They are things about the film that were not what you were expecting because you, like the rest of the Armenian community were too busy creating Egoyan's film for him before he even released it. If you knew anything you'd know that it was never his intension to create a film that was not true to his art.  This film is an Egoyan film from top to bottom and that quality is what has gotten him all the respect from the artistic community that we all like him for. I would not have wanted it any other way. If you were any sort of an Armenian you would support him... he who knows much more about the art of film than any of us. But no, we need to tear him down because he didn't sacrifice what he has worked for for 25 years to become a pathetic propaganda tool.

I could not agree more. I've watched the film on Threatre, 3 times, or maybe 4(don't remember)... I have the soundtrack, and the DVD. I very much injoyed it..., but of course many idiots were nearly sleeping in the theatre watching the film, and Egoyan was left out by the Armenians that will even not go see the movie.

I also really injoyed Aram(not from Egoyan of course), another must see too.

[DominO]

He writes that "Ararat" could not yet have been such a film because our history is unresolved.

Exactly!!!

[Verginne]

And to add to my comment... I don't believe any event that is depicted in one of those historical movies, and I'm sure most people don't either.

Your statements below indicates just the opposite of what you're saying here.

Those movies are there only for entertainment purposes. Why should the Armenian Genocide be turned into an entertainment?

Believe me, the movie I have in mind would not be considered entertainment. It
would be something that would keep people from sleeping at night. If they are human, that is. I've talked to some people about such a project....someday....if we only had that guy's resources, we would do it right.

Ex. I saw "The Pianist" a couple of years ago. Except for the story line about a pianist trapped in Nazi Europe the rest I didn't have to really see to know and realize that horrible things happen to people during genocide. I mean, common, this is genocide we're talking about.

I saw that movie I think. Sorry, but I have to STRONGLY disagree about the genocide part. Sure there was a genocide during WWII, but it didn't happen to jews. So it seems you've been sucked into their propaganda like most people. Nobody suffrered more than they did during WWII. Pffffffffftttttttt. Tell that to Russians who lost twenty-seven million people. But they are Russians, so they don't count.

But I did stay to see how the life of this particular man, this pianist, would turn out. It didn't make me more educated about the Holocaust. If this is a bad example, let's discuss some of the Hollywood movies you'd like "Ararat" to be like.

Of course The Pianist didn't educate you about THEE HOLOCAUST because the movie was NOT about the Armenian Genocide.

And about "Ararat": It had everything. It both introduced the viewers to the Turkish monsters killing and raping our Armenian women and men a century ago, and it showed the trauma every Armenian on this earth feels and experiences when coming of age one realizes the terrible injustices done to our people by not accepting that such an event actually happened.

You are entitled to your opinion and unlike the others, I don't have to call you idiotic names or tell you that YOU have to agree with me. I'm glad you liked it. I bet you'd like ours even more.


I really can't think of any Hollywood movie I'd wish to cite as an example for a movie about the AG I'd like to emulate. At least right now I can't think of one.

[DominO]

La Vita è bella is the best movie about the Holocaust, none come close to it, but again, it's not Hollywood.

[Verginne]

our history is not resolved

A rather ineffectual excuse for making a movie about the AG for personal aggrandisement.

It is, after all, HISTORY...a history that needs to be told because up until recently, it was something that certain people didn't want the world to know about. Now that they are forced by circumstances, well just downplay and minimize it....damage control.