quote:
Originally posted by Berj:
Yes, the abstraction from truth would help our nation.
You see MJ, the thread successfully removed the basis of 1700 celebration.
We have a self-destructing power no other nation has.
Can anyone name ANY non-false celebration that other nations are celebrating? Is that 25 Christmas a real celebration? It was invented by the Pope. And all of you go on celebrating each other on this false date. You all have been fooled. Have you seen any dicussion in the US about 25 Christmas's falseness.
Mardi Gra is a flase celebration. Rio Festival is a false celebration. Wine festivals in all mediteranian counties are false. Olimpic games are a COMPLETELY false celebration. They shouldn't be called Olimpic. German beer festivals are false. Chinese dragon festival is false. All islamic festivals and celebrations are false. The Russians cononised their last tsar as a SAINT ?! and rebuilt a church inside Moscow to mark this celebration. 800 years celebration of the Ottoman empire was false....
All nations like to fool themselvs to be happy. We just don't like to be happy. We always like to be smarter than all others. Even if it's killing ourselvs.
P.S. Has any one of you played the computer strategy games like Age of Empires or similar. You build houses for people, develop your economy, build barracks for your troops, develop the technology etc. When you build the WONDER BUILDING your people start working faster, your troops get stronger. Even when your economy is poor but you manage to build the wonder building, your wrokers work harder, your troops get stronger. And it helps to develop the technology. This is just a computer game, but its very similar to real life.
Dear Berj,
I can see your point, and agree with many things you say.
As I have admited, I am all for the celebration of the anniversary. It is a marketing vehicle for Armenia, and it has to be exploited to its fullest capacity. My understanding is that this is exactly what's going on even on the level of Echmiadzin, btw.
But the thing is, for example, we, including the Armenian Church in the US, celebrate the December 25 as Christmas day, with a full understanding that it is a false date. It doesn’t make us to be any less happier on that date, while carrying this understanding in our minds. I also think, that January 6th might be a false date, as well. You see, we cannot speak with certainty about things that have taken place 20 years ago. How can we speak with certainty about things that might have taken place 2000 years ago?
My non-conventional stance on the issue of the 1700th anniversary is not about being happy or not. I think, first of all, we have to be happy every day, regardless of if we have new reasons for it or not.
What I am objecting is the centuries-old brainwashing of our nation. What I believe is it doesn't serve the purpose, and moreover, dooms our nation to psychological impotency. We try to justify our existence and assert our importance in our past, whatever it may be. It deprives us from our future. This has been done for centuries. We witness the results. We have created false ideals and symbols, and are ready, maybe, even to die for them, but we are skeptical about our future, and it seems like we don't have any plans for it. I think there is something overwhelmingly wrong with our national psychology. And that’s what I am rebelling against.
As you have said once, and Steve/Bellthecat has said the same yesterday, the history is in the hands of the winners. I also subscribe to that opinion. I would also add that it is a very creative academic game, besides being a political instrument. Depending on what methodology you ascribe to, that’s the type of conclusions you can make.
For example, three professors of mathematics of mine – Fomenko, Mishchenko and Postnikov at MSU, resurrecting an old idea of a Russian historian Morozov (early 20th century, I think), had come up with an argument that the only accurate tool for making judgments about historical dates are the descriptions of solar eclipses. More detailed their descriptions, more accurately they may allow identifying the dates of the events during the eclipses. On a purely logical level, I think this is a very legitimate argument. So… Being a brilliant mathematician, Fomenko had calculated the occurrences of all solar eclipses, and had calculated where they might’ve each of them been observable. Now, some conclusion… According to this theory, the solar eclipse during the crucifixion of Jesus Christ described in the New Testament, so that to be observable where it is described in the Book, should’ve taken place in 1054 A.D. Fomenko strongly believes that this is when it has taken place, and has come up (following Morozov) with another theory onthe echo of historical events to the future, and moreover, of their echo to the times before their occurrences. He brings a whole host of examples and arguments, manifesting for example, that the Greek philosopher Plato has lived in fact in the late first millennium A.D., and the Plato we are aware of in the B.C. era, is his backwards echo. There are many other such interesting arguments and stories. Many of his claims are rejected by other historians. What Postnikov claims is “this is an interesting methodology, it doesn’t necessarily mean that this is what has happened, but if you follow this methodology, you consistently arrive to these conclusions.” I think every other methodology leads to its own results.
Also, let’s recall how has Stalin rewritten the entire history of Russian Revolutions, and how convinced the absolute majority of the USSR population had become in the correctness of this history – just in one generation. Imagine that the regime had lasted for several hundred years, as it has done with the Roman or Ottoman Empire. Would’ve the people of USSR had any doubts about the history of Revolution? Or imagine that the Nazi Germany had won the WWII, and had conquered the whole world. Would’ve we spoken about the atrocities of Nazis, or the Jewish Holocaust, or would’ve we glorified “Hitler papi.” Like the “Lenin papi.” Wouldn’t we have many Armenian poets, among others, writing verses on “Hitler grandpa?”
You may recall that in the past, in our forum I have resented our national masochism, and have even quoted Anan. I am not a masochist, I think our nation is a very positive one. It is just going through some very difficult and painful transition. We are not better than many others, and we are not worse than many others, either. I just think that in building our nation and country, we have followed false methodologies and values, and have paid a very high price for it.
I think we have an incredible chance to finish the build-up of our nation and our country at this very critical juncture. It just requires down-to-earth philosophy and vision, pragmatism, but also imagination. As to the imagination we, as Armenians, are not short of it. We have plenty of it. As to the pragmatism and to the down-to-earth mentality, on a personal level, we have a lot of it, too. But when we get together as a nation, in our collective consciousness it disappears. But I believe a new generation of Armenians is coming. This generation is smarter than past ones, it is more aggressive, and more capable. There is only lack of leadership. Otherwise the material is there.
I just think that we have to build a new type of Armenia, liberate ourselves from the heavy burden of our painful past, and move on to assert our value through our present and future endeavors.
This is a big topic, and I am sure we can continue it in other threads.