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armenian girls and sexuality


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#41 Guest__*

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Posted 30 May 2000 - 04:07 AM

I am back!! I hope you all don't have any regrets about that?!
I was going to say that this whole thing doesn't have to be discussed here like that!
I consider myself to be a very conservative girl, but i also respect other people's opinions.
So please, guys, don't kill each other here, OK?
If somebody likes a girl like Mary Magdalene, that's his own business.
I agree with Berj.
Hope that the majority likes the other Mary type

#42 Guest__*

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Posted 30 May 2000 - 07:03 AM

Vaaay, Nvard jan es ur? eir chkair. Stegh an-Nvard saghov zohvum enq vret khabar chka. Ba karli a esqan gel-u-gazani dzer@ internet tal u esqan zhamanak menak toghel. Myus angam senc ban anes karogha norutyunnerov lses vor ashkhari amboghj web canc@ vari a gnacel mi khumb hayeri dzerqov.
Hla du mi tes, serakan haraberutyunneri veraberyal topic@ eqqqqqa erku ej tegh a gravel. Heto el asum en te hayer@ hetamnac en.

#43 Guest__*

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Posted 30 May 2000 - 09:23 AM

Es meke lav asir

#44 Guest__*

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Posted 30 May 2000 - 01:02 PM

Quoted: Have you ever disscused you parents ***ual life with them?
I can't even talk about girls generally sitting in the same table with my father.
Egual or not, it is not the thing discussed in Armenia. Woman takes care of the family and being honest to her husband! Man takes care of all of them, financially and protect!
That's it! If you call it enegaulity, then it is from your point of view, you have your own opinion.
And nothing can be compared to an Armenian girl. However, there can be no respect to girls who act or think in "American" way Shame! This is my opinion and you have a choice of disagreement!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by raffiaharonian:

#45 Guest__*

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Posted 30 May 2000 - 03:53 PM

Artur jan, het es eke? Gartsam vor gunumes! Garoghes mahat "Hayastan" forum batses yete menk "Americans" kezi et kan kezi neghatsnumenk!

#46 Guest__*

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Posted 01 June 2000 - 10:06 AM

At the risk of pouring fuel upon the fire, so to speak, I have to reply.

My very sincere and heartfelt thanks go out to the couple of people who dared support some of my views. Thank you.

I have to say that I had a tremendous reaction to the number and intensity of the replies posted. Reading through some of these replies, however, elicited some very mixed, contradictory, and deeply felt emotions.

First, to all the armenian guys who so vehemently scorned my views and my behavior. My pride is deeply wounded at such judgment, but I had braced myself against it, so I'll leave it upon your own conscience to come to terms with having dealt with me so harshly. To those men who feel my behavior threatens the very fabric of armenian society...do you know me? do you know my thoughts, my beliefs, and yes, my morals? (virginity is NOT the be-all and end-all of moral or immoral behavior, believe it or not) How dare you imply that I'd raise my children in any sort of an immoral fashion! But I don't suppose I could make any of you, who are so narrow minded, comprehend that concept. To those who prize virginity above all else in a woman, it's laughable, really. I could point out dozens of armenian girls who pretend to be virgins, gentlemen. And these are the girls you marry. Yes, these liars and frauds will be your wives. Congratulations. (and yes, they will pass that thorough background check you will put them through..pass with flying colors). Congratulations yet again.

I find it interesting and certainly very telling of our culture that you judged me so completely without so much as undertaking a single step to know me. But c'est la vi, I suppose.

Thank you again to the few of you who responded positively. I realize you may not agree with all of my views(and complete agreement is not needed), but your candid thoughts are to your credit as individuals with honesty and integrity to spare. Thank you.

As a final thought, I'll bring up a biblical statement, since a few were brought up already (this is from my admittedly narrow study of the bible)..."let him who has not sinned throw the first stone"...

adieu,
g.s.

#47 Guest__*

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Posted 02 June 2000 - 11:26 AM

Bravo Armenian Cleopatra. I liked the way you handled the criticism.
You are a brave Armenian woman.

#48 Guest__*

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Posted 02 June 2000 - 11:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ArmenianCleopatra:


As a final thought, I'll bring up a biblical statement, since a few were brought up already (this is from my admittedly narrow study of the bible)..."let him who has not sinned throw the first stone"...

adieu,
g.s.


Ay kezi baaaan! I was so amazed that even forgot to print my thoughts before posting them.
A fished out fragment of Bible adjusted to the situation and then adieu...
Stop making those biblical statments. Bible is not a super-market where you can buy goods for stuffing your stomac. It's a universal idea!!! to be achieved by constant sacrifice. You know whom I believe, I believe St. Hripsime, St. Gayane who sacrificed their lifes not to obey the pagan king's demands. I believe thousands of Armenian girls and women who threw themselves from rocks not to be raped by the Turks and Kurds. They had their truth. You have your truth. Die for you truth and everybody will believe you. Because only the person who perishes for his truth must be given credit.
Do I know you, yes sure, you're CLEOPAAAAATRA, a woman who provoced war between everybody to sleep with everybody.

Please answer this question:
Suppose, you walk with your boyfriend down a street and suddenly an attractive guy coming towards you touches you somewhere he is not really supposed to have the right to touch. Than he starts laughing at you in front of your boyfriend. You boyfriend calls the police. Is this situation all right for you? Will you be satisfied with the punishment the attractive rowdy got?

Thank you

#49 Guest__*

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Posted 02 June 2000 - 11:17 PM

LOL!!!!!

What WAS all that nonsense?

Come now, Berj, let's be a little sensible. Could you find nothing else to argue against in my post but that statement from the bible? Well, my friend, if you don't like me quoting the bible, may I quote Sting? Surely you can have no objection to that?.."don't judge me, you might be me in another life, in another set of circumstances" (taken from a song by Sting on his latest album-a better day-)..See, I even included references!!..lol

I apologize for the sarcasm with which I'm treating your thoughts, but you left me with no choice.

With regards to the use of the name Cleopatra, I consider Cleopatra a strong woman first, everything else second. Hence my admiration for her.

And as for your little scenario, my first reaction was to say I will not stoop so low as to respond to that base and condescending accusation. However, I realize that THAT is the level at which you function, so I'll address it. It's very simple: that would never happen. Whatever else I may do, I do not, repeat DO NOT cheat or in any way disrespect my man. Therefore, no other man would ever touch me. Get it? Got it? Good.

g.s.

quote:
Originally posted by Berj:
Ay kezi baaaan! I was so amazed that even forgot to print my thoughts before posting them.
A fished out fragment of Bible adjusted to the situation and then adieu...
Stop making those biblical statments. Bible is not a super-market where you can buy goods for stuffing your stomac. It's a universal idea!!! to be achieved by constant sacrifice. You know whom I believe, I believe St. Hripsime, St. Gayane who sacrificed their lifes not to obey the pagan king's demands. I believe thousands of Armenian girls and women who threw themselves from rocks not to be raped by the Turks and Kurds. They had their truth. You have your truth. Die for you truth and everybody will believe you. Because only the person who perishes for his truth must be given credit.
Do I know you, yes sure, you're CLEOPAAAAATRA, a woman who provoced war between everybody to sleep with everybody.

Please answer this question:
Suppose, you walk with your boyfriend down a street and suddenly an attractive guy coming towards you touches you somewhere he is not really supposed to have the right to touch. Than he starts laughing at you in front of your boyfriend. You boyfriend calls the police. Is this situation all right for you? Will you be satisfied with the punishment the attractive rowdy got?

Thank you




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Posted 02 June 2000 - 05:42 PM

Dear ArmenianCleopatra,
I read your comments on ***uality and the Armenian Backdrop... This is certainly a topic worth exploring concerning all women in the world. I am just wondering why you feel the need to explain what your "status" is, if you indeed feel that it is such a personal issue? Nevertheless, I agree with your epiphany.

ArmenianCleopatra:


Greetings my fellow armenians...

Disclaimer: I'd like to bring up a very controversial topic and I hope no one will shoot me over this..lol..

There's a lot I adore about our culture. The strength of our men, the beauty of our women, our family centered lives, etc etc...(all that traditional stuff)..

There is, however, one point I absolutely cannnot stand: the double standard employed universally against all armenian women. We're judged not on our character, but on our purity, not on our worth as human beings, but on some artificial "qualifying test" we either pass or fail when we speak of our VIRGINITY. Well, I can tell you right now, I always fail that one )...No, I'm not a virgin. Am I ashamed of it? No. I feel like it's such a personal matter, a personal choice. Yet I can't help feeling almost guilty, like I've somehow betrayed my culture and my people when I say I'm not a virgin. Why do I feel this way? It's the weight of years of virtual imprisonement of our women's ***ual desires that makes me feel this way. Centuries upon centuries of men who prized virgin brides and women who could not fail to meet that criterion or they would be severely ostracized by society, ridiculed, left unmarried (ironically, perhaps the greatest punishment).

Believe me, it'd be MUCH easier for me to conceal the fact that i'm not a virgin, to lie to men who love me, make them love me more for my assumed purity. But I can't. And I don't. Not only because my personal integrity will not allow me to conceal or lie, but because I feel it's important to at least try to make others understand that it's not "wrong" or "immoral", but merely another choice.

So I'd like to appeal to your collective Armenian conscience to stop judging armenian girls who chose not to be virgins, to stop making them feel "guilty" for a crime they didn't commit. Please, let's be more tolerant.

I hope this strikes a chord with other armenian girls who may not be ***ually active but would like the FREEDOM to make that CHOICE. It's not about the ***, ladies and gentlemen. It's about the CHOICE.

To all the armenian guys who I find wonderful in so many truly "armenian" ways, please allow your women that choice.

To all the amazing armenian women, let's lobby for that choice. Maybe not now, maybe not in 10 years, but someday, let's hope we win the right to make that choice.

I consider this the first step in that crusade.

I look forward to any replies.

liberated, but very armenian )

g.s.
[/QUOTE]

#51 Guest__*

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Posted 03 June 2000 - 02:59 PM

ArmenianCleopatra, Sisters and Brothers,
I am 17 year old Armenian living in Montreal. Armenian values are not very strong in my family and I personally think it's a shame. I, myslef started to bring back some essential traditions to keep armenian culture alive for my descendants. Of course in these traditions the purity of armenian women is important. I am not an extremist I am a modern conservative person . At least I try to be. ArmenianCleopatra, you talk well. You say you are not a virgin but a proud Armenian and I think today the "Proud Armenian" factor is very important. When I was 12 girls would dress like 12 year old girls and today (only 5 years later) 12 year old girls dress like 19 year olds and it's getting worse (eg. Very tight pans, open backs, and G Strings!). This is a fact! ArmCleo, you are an example to the young Armenian girls and would you be okay with the fact that young Armenian girls not only weren't virgins but that they became ***ually active at the age of 14, 12 or even 11??? We are living in a society where *** has become an industry (****, strip clubs, magazines, etc.) it's simply terrible, *** is fun but it's not a game.
If an adult Armenian woman is ***ualy active because of the social context she lived in we cannot really do anything but please respect yourself, don't be easy, still be conservative in your choice of partners, watch out!
Armenians, Lebanese, Iranians, Jews, Indians, Egyptians, Tunisians, Algerians Greeks etc... all have very strong morals and traditons but I noticed that all the diaspora of these people loose everything by coming to North America. Steve, you cannot deny the reality of Western Society; *** drugs, loss of identity and violence are very important problems. You say that there are very religious people in the US, but why do you precise geographically? Because it's only a minority. And I respect the fact that you type your opinons on the channel but you and Sulamita are always against usual Armenian thoughts, always rebelling and then you tell us how you are not accepted in Armenian community.
Because of my sudden interest and respect towards my culture and tradition which has not been directly transmited to me I have made some choiced and I am still a virgin and I have had some offers for ***ual activity which I refused. I will not wait until marriage but I want my first time to be Armenian girl

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Posted 03 June 2000 - 03:19 PM

ArmenianCleopatra, Sisters and Brothers,
I am 17 year old Armenian living in Montreal, Canada. Armenian values are not very strong in my family and I personally think it's a shame. I, myslef started to bring back some essential traditions to keep armenian culture alive for my descendants. Of course in these traditions the purity of armenian women is important. I am not an extremist I am a modern conservative person . At least I try to be. ArmenianCleopatra, you talk well. You say you are not a virgin but a proud Armenian and I think today the "Proud Armenian" factor is very important. When I was 12, girls would dress like 12 year old girls and today (only 5 years later) 12 year old girls dress like 19 year olds and it's getting worse (eg. Very tight pans, open backs, and G Strings!). This is a fact! ArmCleo, you are an example to the young Armenian girls and would you be okay with the fact that young Armenian girls not only weren't virgins but that they became ***ually active at the age of 14, 12 or even 11??? We are living in a society where *** has become an industry (****, strip clubs, magazines, etc.) it's simply terrible, *** is fun but it's not a game.
If an adult Armenian woman is ***ualy active because of the social context she lives in we cannot really do anything but please respect yourself, don't be easy, still be conservative in your choice of partners, watch out!
Armenians, Lebanese, Iranians, Jews, Indians, Egyptians, Tunisians, Algerians Greeks etc... all have very strong morals and traditons but I noticed that all the diaspora of these people loose everything by coming to North America. Steve, you cannot deny the reality of Western Society; *** drugs, loss of identity and violence are very important problems. You say that there are very religious people in the US, but why do you precise geographically? Because it's only a minority.
We should use our conscience to control our animal instinct.
ArmCleo, I hope you repect yourslef and don't slepp with anyone don't be an American-For-***ual-Freedom; still keep your traditions and be conservative.
I hope I was clear.
Assddvadz hedernit ella!
ê¿ñá¯í.ð³ýýÇ (For users of Courrier AM)
Serov! Raffi.

#53 Guest__*

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Posted 03 June 2000 - 06:06 PM

I think my initial message got lost somewhere because of the admitted explosiveness of the topic. My initial plea was for the admission by armenian society in general and by our men especially of freedom of choice for our women; choice in all matters, but especially with regards to ***uality. Some may have misunderstood this as "yeah, dude, let's go out party, spend a night with some guy and go home" kind of a message. It was not!!! It still isn't. It's merely a proclamation of sorts, a proclamation of my right as a woman, an armenian woman, to choose that path without being incessantly ostracized for that choice. That's all. (with respect to the question raised about whether or not I'd like our 12-13 year old girls having ***, OF COURSE NOT. I've been speaking of this issue as it concerns women 18+).

g.s.

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Posted 04 June 2000 - 03:46 AM

Everything you say will lead to "yeah dude lets go to party", and 18+ will become 14+ after all.

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Posted 04 June 2000 - 08:36 AM

ok can i add something? I am under 18 and ofcoars I"m still a virgin. Loosing ur virginity before u get married has nothing to do with ***ual pleasure or needs. If you're very serious about the guy ur with, then i think *** can wait, don't u? it's not whether u choose to be ur own woman and loose ur virginity or whatever, it's a matter of respect to ur family, and ur culture. I'm sure none of ur family member will be like"" oh hun i think it's time for u to have *** with ur boyfriend" or "oh hun i'm so proud u had *** with that dude" i don't think so!! so don't be all "" it's a womans right or somethin". But very unfortunatly waiting 'till they're married then havin' *** does not concern most of the Armo youth today, especially in Cali, LA glendale, burbank or whatever. people are becoming Americanized!! i'm not sayin' that's bad it has good and bad sides to it. Unfortunalty havin' *** before marriage is spread all over Armenia too. So when guys here go ""pti gnam Hayastanits axchik berem""
donn't believe that when u go to YEREVAN or wherever u'll find a pure girl from a good family educated..and everything.. I'm not sayin' there aren't any ..but most of them are as pure as they sound. There are many girls here in the US who are pure and do respect there family and their culture and everything.

I just thought of adding something to this topic since it has been goin' on forrr sooooooo long..LOL

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Posted 05 June 2000 - 09:31 AM

I think I'm going to break the very rule I've been preaching (be nice to each other) and say that HyeAngel, you're a silly little girl, judging from your entry. Enough said on that.

Now then, saint: I bring up this issue using myself as an example because I think it's important enough to be dealt with on a wider scale. In "explaining my status", as you put it, I'm merely providing a real life example because so many girls in my situation are too scared to bring it up themselves.

HyeAngel,you present an interesting contrast to Raffi, also under 18. Yet he's so much more leveled, composed, intelligent, and respectful. I thought 17 yr. old guys were supposed to be a bag of raging hormones--he proved me wrong. ) My hat's off to Raffi. Read a few of his contributions to this or any other topic. Perhaps you can learn a thing or two about what an intelligent teenager looks like. Then come back and I'll welcome your views. Nothing personal, you're in the process of learning, I'm only suggesting what more you can learn )

raffi jan..point taken re: careful choice of partners..lol..I just find it a little amusing to be hearing it from you..just a teeny bit )(but i'll let it fly because you're just too cool of a kid)..keep writing )

g.s.

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Posted 05 June 2000 - 12:04 PM

yo CLEO what's up with? ""silly little girl, "" i'm givin' an opinion aight? don't think too highly of urself apush imatsi vonts es xosum xi es kez pilisopai tex dre? why do you think ur such an SMART ASSSSS?? ur not Shit ok? u don't even know who da hell i am ur callin' me a silly little girl? imatsi vor ko nmaner@ poxotsnerum tapats en ok?? watch how ye talkin' aight? vobshem forget u! plus CHANGE THE FREAKIN" TOPICC! we know too much about ur ***UAL PLEASURES....and UR STUPID OPINIONS! apush apush durs es talis arants haskanalu! and u think ur an ADULT? calln' my a little girl? if u were u wouldn't be talkin' shit like that!

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Posted 06 June 2000 - 05:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ArmenianCleopatra:


Greetings my fellow armenians...

Disclaimer: I'd like to bring up a very controversial topic and I hope no one will shoot me over this..lol..

There's a lot I adore about our culture. The strength of our men, the beauty of our women, our family centered lives, etc etc...(all that traditional stuff)..

There is, however, one point I absolutely cannnot stand: the double standard employed universally against all armenian women. We're judged not on our character, but on our purity, not on our worth as human beings, but on some artificial "qualifying test" we either pass or fail when we speak of our VIRGINITY. Well, I can tell you right now, I always fail that one )...No, I'm not a virgin. Am I ashamed of it? No. I feel like it's such a personal matter, a personal choice. Yet I can't help feeling almost guilty, like I've somehow betrayed my culture and my people when I say I'm not a virgin. Why do I feel this way? It's the weight of years of virtual imprisonement of our women's ***ual desires that makes me feel this way. Centuries upon centuries of men who prized virgin brides and women who could not fail to meet that criterion or they would be severely ostracized by society, ridiculed, left unmarried (ironically, perhaps the greatest punishment).

Believe me, it'd be MUCH easier for me to conceal the fact that i'm not a virgin, to lie to men who love me, make them love me more for my assumed purity. But I can't. And I don't. Not only because my personal integrity will not allow me to conceal or lie, but because I feel it's important to at least try to make others understand that it's not "wrong" or "immoral", but merely another choice.

So I'd like to appeal to your collective Armenian conscience to stop judging armenian girls who chose not to be virgins, to stop making them feel "guilty" for a crime they didn't commit. Please, let's be more tolerant.

I hope this strikes a chord with other armenian girls who may not be ***ually active but would like the FREEDOM to make that CHOICE. It's not about the ***, ladies and gentlemen. It's about the CHOICE.

To all the armenian guys who I find wonderful in so many truly "armenian" ways, please allow your women that choice.

To all the amazing armenian women, let's lobby for that choice. Maybe not now, maybe not in 10 years, but someday, let's hope we win the right to make that choice.

I consider this the first step in that crusade.

I look forward to any replies.

liberated, but very armenian )

g.s.



Vay QnShamiram inch patsir lol............
I just dont want Armenian girls to sleep with odars (non Armenians), for the safety of our culture. And let's be realistic, if a girl or guy wants to do it, there's a million ways they could hide it. A lot more Armenians are non virgins than we think, and that bothers me cuz I'm very patriotic and want to preserve our culture, but it's such an individual thing that we can't interfere I guess. But in my opinion, I think there's more girl non virgins than guys, and I think we can tell why if we read what the guys generally say. Any1 correct me if I'm wrong..
Whatever happens-happens, let's not outcast Armenian girls who choose so, it would be a lynch-type, animalistic, ugly thing on society's part. Then the hypocrisy will come out again, the kind ppl will be cruel. I love Armenian girls, they are our race's pride, we must always be kindest to the most innocent and most vulnerable as Armenian men whose job is to protect, not judge. Jesus taught us this example, it's our responsibility to honor Him and do as He showed, He forgave the whore and she was redeemed. If we changed ourselves, Armenian girls would not go to those extents, and find happiness in us. Guys, if Armenian girls turn to someone else or to an odar, then that means you're doing something wrong, you're the one who needs to reform yourself in order to make sure she's happy and then she'll keep her eyes on you
Im against pre-marital ***. I think Armenian girls are against it too. We both need to respect each other and create Armenian love. Hay azgin miayn prgutyune sern e. (do it according to our 5000 year old culture, we've had plenty of time in those 5 millennia to make according changes to keep things ok we all need wisdom and when we get it we'll see that it's true. Stay clean, stay Armenian, respect yourself, respect your people! shout out to all the fine armenian young ppl {including myself lol} )
PEACE!

#59 Guest__*

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 03:08 AM

Barev hayer,

I have another question for men. Who likes STRONG WOMEN? Sure it's not about muscles. It's about ... Thatcher-Albrite type. Is there anyone who has heard about their husbands. I guess they have no hormones left to be worth of being demonstrated anywere (aplause). Their wifes (arguable) are clearly the "women of choice", who didn't ever have had the baby feelings, which so nicely suite a normal woman. I meen, if their husbands are also STRONG MEN, how do they COMPLEEEEET each other. Even in nature, you can have energy only from "-" and "+" combined, and not form "-" and "-".
So, I think that strong women are being chosen as partnerts by weak men. And if they split in the future, so that was a strong-strong case.
A primitive example: If we install 2 motors and 8 weels on a car, forgetting about the lights, it will move, but it will have a very high persentage of crash possibility. The same is everywhere in this world. Every little detail has its place in family, because the one who created this world used something more than just technology.

Arayzhm

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 05:44 PM

TO FarsiSteve, Cleopchazaz, & All Armenian Non-Virgins Girls,

First go to the nearest ocean. Second, start walking straight into the water and dont stop until you cant feel anything.

To all Virgin Armenian Girls,

Yes dzer dzava tanem. I love Armenian girls. They are our backbone for our culture. If they are like Cleopchazaz we wouldnt have preserved our culture till today. I love every Armenian who is devoted to Artsakh, Armenian and the future for Motherland.




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