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Do We Need To Mary Them Or Not?


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#41 Hye_Acher

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Posted 20 May 2004 - 01:54 PM

Intercultural marriages have very little chance of surviving and the ones that do survive end up adapting only one culture. I have seen many Armenians married to non-Armenians. I can see and feel that Armenian culture/identity is non-existence in their families.
Why do we want to abandon a vision that God has placed in this world, which our ancestors fought and defended it? It all comes down to whether you choose to value what your ancestors have fought and defended for you. My duty today is easy. My grad-grandparents who were massacred in the 1915 Genocide had the tougher job. They are the ones who had to face the ultimatum. I DONíT!! Now the least I can do is keep our name and maintain our faith and heritage. We have to be proud of what we have instead ignoring and running away from it.

This discussion has been brought up way to many times before. vay!!!

Good Day!!! smile.gif

#42 Vigil

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Posted 20 May 2004 - 05:04 PM

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Edited by Vigil, 31 May 2004 - 04:44 AM.


#43 gevo27

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Posted 20 May 2004 - 09:16 PM

QUOTE (mx5 @ May 20 2004, 12:32 PM)
nobody is claiming that we are supirior to any race or people,

Claim it or not, a national survey has revealed Chineese people to be the most intellegent people overall, and Armenians to be the second most intelligent people overall smile.gif give me some time i will find the link to this!!

#44 Sip

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Posted 20 May 2004 - 10:17 PM

QUOTE (gevo27 @ May 20 2004, 09:16 PM)
... give me some time i will find the link to this!!

bet you if you were chinese, you'd have found the link already lol.gif

#45 Dude

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Posted 21 May 2004 - 01:16 AM

I understand we all fall for some one,but I also thing that's the main reason to marry someone but not the only one.(Karmir kov@ira kashin chi poxi).
Mez chi haskana sarn otaruhin....So many things we'll see after marrage,when we see that our wifes want to go to vication with their girlfriends,when she wouldn't like that your kids are tryin to speak armenian cuz she doesn't understand.God bless those who has forighn wifes it's something they need to worry about.We all are victms of our desissions
.....every night before i go to sleep I ask God above to do the things which are right for me not the things I want....but I always also ask to give me an armenian wife,so I can keep my roots and language,culture and my last name.............I'm not a rasist but I love armenians the best and I know that I can love my armenian wife the best.

#46 loxxsqueen

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Posted 21 May 2004 - 07:04 AM

Vigil, I'm surprised your head hasnt exploded yet

#47 mx5

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Posted 21 May 2004 - 07:10 AM

Loxxesqueen

I dont know why anyone is offended as an Armenian when dubbed as a nationalist,our beeing nationalist is purely deffensive it is centered mostly at preserving ourselves as Armenians in diaspora or helping Armenia in whatever way we can.
during our entire history both ancient or recent we have never been an agrassor ,we did much more harm to ourselves than we did to any "odar".
In Lebanon where I live 95% the reason of assimilation is the Odar marriage.
most of the time the Armenian side is prohibited by the Arab partner to speak armenian on the excuse that he/she ,the Arab Husband or wife doesnt understand the language.(Do you think that I am an a$$hole here speak Arabic so that I can understand)the Armenian side is always intimidated and gives in as ussuall.And you tell me about Nationalism or chauvenism?!!
as for me I fell in love when i was 15 and still cant help myself when I encounter a gourgous female,but I always keep on reminding myself that Im married!!.females may not understand this but most of the males will remain that way untill they die it must be genetic..my male hormons are not dead yet,as you imply, and believe me,in that respect, I dont feel much different from a 15 years old kid!!

Edited by mx5, 21 May 2004 - 07:17 AM.


#48 ExtraHye

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Posted 21 May 2004 - 05:20 PM

QUOTE (gamavor @ May 19 2004, 09:42 PM)
Extra, I love YOU!!! Muah! wub.gif kiss1.gif kisss.gif

I know you do naughty.gif wink.gif

#49 gamavor

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Posted 21 May 2004 - 07:10 PM

One of the many reasons why I love you is becuase you are as Sadana as Evelina! smile.gif

#50 Harut

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Posted 22 May 2004 - 12:10 AM

QUOTE (Vigil @ May 20 2004, 10:34 AM)
QUOTE (harut)
Vigil
i'm an armenian living in armenia, married to non-armenian. do i still lose my "armenianity"?

Yes, you do ...

what do i become?

#51 Markar_0v_Xaos

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 12:17 AM

Some people herehave assumed that there are even other hyes in one's area TO marry!!
And this even refuses to acknowledge schisms of religion, politics, class and gender and plain old attraction ( ARA! a mouthful to type !)

And also, to the purist types who believe that any and all " mixed Armenians" are no longer hye ( as if that individual EVER had any choice as to who their parentage was ) ??!! You have some VERY good points, however that I agree with in this context.

HOWEVER_

assuming we accept your premise; What do you make of people from mixed background ..say somebody that's 1/2 or a quarter... who are fighting to keep their identity when they are not surrounded by a community?

No Armenian language schools..no church...no AYF , ARF, AYCOA...no barbeques...no madags...np poetry...nothing for much of their life except for the superhuman ability to spot an Armenian name in a phone book or movie titles or school lists at lightning speed and the joy of watching their Armenian relatives succumb to assimilation year by year while at the same time being fed nationalistic ideas and being held to unattainable and gendered standards of behavior on account of "being Armenian"... and NO ONE to talk hayeren with even if their Armenian relatives finally agreed to teach them?

Imagine being a 7 year old having to literally *beg* your relatives when you see them intermittently, or spend a year or so with them,
to teach you Armenian so that you can communicate with your cousins and other family members?
Imagine being refused to be taught by those Armenian relatives year after year the language/dialect?
Imagine having to defend racist accusations and misunderstandings by your *own* non-armenian parent from a small age. To be a mini-educator and expert geographer to non-armenians- including your own relatives from such a young age.
Imagine watching the pain of your Armenian parents and grandparents as they fight to assimilate. Imagine being told that out of all known family members, you are the only one of the grandchildren known of who knows the history, was around before total assimilation took place, and is the only one of them left who wants to learn, because the others are too poor, isolated and ignorant to know or want to learn?
Imagine the pain of that child who becomes conscious of the implications of assimilation from a race subjected to genocide. Imagine the burden of that child who feels on one hand responsible to take advantage of waning prejudices and acceptance of ethnic pride to maintain identity against the genocide of assimilation on one hand, and not being accepted when intermittently around hye communities on the other?

Some of the previous can be used to make arguements *against* intermarriage. But what to do with the children of these marriages who are conscious and decide that they *will not* be a party to the final stages, even if they remain marginalized by armenian communities?


How can you then shoulder the burden entirely on these people when much of it is on account of factos beyond their choice like history, geography and class? And then consign them to oblivion when it comes to marriage issues? Isn't this a case of " blaming the victims"?


Should they just give up, and say " you purist ethnonationalist types are right.. otar I am than" or should they fight for their place in the community? This includes the right to acceptance in marriage to a " full blood" armenian, which can only be made possible with further dialogues on the meaning of identity in a DEEP sense. Every conscious hye has to admit that it is *very* important as the last stages of genocide are going through (assimilation and denial).

What do you ethnonationalist purists make of these mixed Armenians who try hard, with no language schools or little to no community around, who want to marry another Armenian? Do you think they should tell the " full blood" at a barahantes or party or whatever mode of singles meeting that " Well, I might LOOK a lil Hye and ACT a lil Hye an speak a lil Hayeren , but REALLY .. I'm an odar!" Doesn't this seem a wee bit , well.. weird? ( Damn, I feel like I'm talking reservation politics here with all this " full blood"/half-blood talk ;-)


Why should the mixed-bloods throw in the towel and NOT fight ?? Why should the mixed ones who are trying to maintain thier identity against odds, and who ALSO grew up with the horror stories of the genocide , and the guilt of feeling complicit with jermag chert and the burden of assimilation... Why should they , if they are CONSCIOUS... essentially say
" Well... the Turks won with my family. We are sufficiently ODAR-IFIED. We now surrender ;-) "


Denial is one of the final states of genocide. And I , a mixed blood ARMENIAN .. REFUSE to be party to denial. I *do* wish to marry an Armenian man, mostly because of social programming and trust ( my emotional trust is mostly with Armenian men on account of my raising ). However, this assumes that I am *accepted* by in-laws and the like, and the community. And honey, one thing is right here in this forum where people have included money as a factor, not only do you have to be accepted, but you have to come from money and act like a material girl/dress like a material girl just to get these hye boys glances. And , to be " amergihye" in phrasing " Ara.. some of us are just BROKE and trying to get by, much less act the princess" . And some of us are simply politically and socially opposed to materialism and capitalism and how they play out in the politics of love.

You should really think of the reality on the ground for many of us who do not want to surrender to the final stages of genocide. Not *ALL* of us have the luxury to travel to Armenian lands and communities, or plop down a good chunk of money for Armenian language software or books that actually WORK, or travel to armenian communities for overpriced barahantes ,,,and some of us like myself actually GO to the sparse Armenian church meetings ( even if we're very secular), weather the community gossip, donate money, educate other communities on Armenian issues, save money when we're broke and unemployed for ptitiful Armenian "language" books, read on events, and help where we can.

TO be blunt, he77 NO I refuse to call myself en total an " odar" and prove the #$% murderers right. Even my not-so conscious mixed cousins refuse. And I refuse also on account of the fact that I *am* the last of my family who forms a line and was raised by a generation who spoke Armenian, had a community and knows the history.

On the note of marriage, all I got to say is " vorteg e Monte Melkonian??????????/" Now THAT's an Armenian man I would give my personal library for ;-)

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#52 Vigil

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 01:37 AM

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Edited by Vigil, 31 May 2004 - 04:40 AM.


#53 Vigil

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 03:27 AM

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Edited by Vigil, 31 May 2004 - 04:40 AM.


#54 DominO

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 09:30 AM

Vigil, define me race.

#55 loxxsqueen

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 09:58 AM

Vigil, you are not only ridiculous, the almost propaganda you spew is offensive and disgusting. YOu are self serving and self-righteous...

If you do not understand the concept that the word 'race' is a man-made word and has absolutely no scientific backing... you are incredibly misguided and ignorant.

Your near propoganda found here is not because you are so intelligent, it derives from you ignorance, lack of education, narrow-mindedness and self righteousness.

#56 Vigil

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 11:07 AM

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Edited by Vigil, 31 May 2004 - 04:40 AM.


#57 Stormig

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 11:17 AM

I think we have a schizo among ourselves.

#58 Vigil

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 11:35 AM

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Edited by Vigil, 31 May 2004 - 04:33 AM.


#59 ED

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 12:41 PM

Please edit your posts from personal insults, and try to use normal fonts dry.gif

#60 loxxsqueen

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 01:09 PM

Vigil I am insulting you. You do a good job of that yourself. Can you hear yourself talk???

The ideologies that come from the distorted mind you have, of the world are absurd. To use words like 'mongrelesque' shows your ignorance... To call 'Americans' a race, shows you are not that you are not that learned and inteligent after all.




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