What Is The Total Armenian Population?
#21
Posted 28 January 2006 - 10:45 PM
#22
Posted 29 January 2006 - 12:54 AM
Boghoqner kan ? HAyeri Koghmits chkan
Antsnenq Araj
#23
Posted 29 January 2006 - 05:43 AM
The 40,000 - 50,000 figure for Syria is very accurate. I have relatives there, and they tell me themselves -- "Gardzes te hay che mnatsadz Haleb..." A few years ago, the church even had a "badvo yerego" in Aleppo in honor of women who have had lots of children. I know, because my grandmother was one of the honorees. They were honoring those women to encourage young Armenian women in Aleppo today to form large families, because the population has dwindled. Aleppo can't even support a daily newspaper.
Lebanon is not so bad. Of course it is not the way it was before. In the 1970s, there were 21,000 children attending Armenian schools in Lebanon. Today, it is 9,000. And get this: According to the Armenian church's records, in 1997, there were 250 weddings. FORTY percent were mixed marriages. (Source: http://www.agbu.org/...ay.asp?A_ID=57)
In addition to that AGBU article, my figures are supported by an enyclopedia published in Yerevan in 2003. It's called "Hay Spiurk," and it gives information of every Armenian community in the world, by country. I was doing research at LA's Central Library, and I came across it. While I did not copy the population figures, I do remember that the book stated Lebanon's Armenian population at 120,000 and Syria's at 40-50,000.
As for half a million in Los Angeles. According to the US Census, there are 138,015 Armenian language speakers in Los Angeles County (this includes Hollywood, Valley, Glendale, Pasadena, etc). I understand there are many Armenians who do not speak Armenian. But not that many. Besides, they may be Armenian by blood (or half, or quarter), but they may not even consider themselves Armenian. I can't imagine that there are more than 300,000 Armenians in Los Angeles (and that is being generous, I think).
Arpa: What's wrong with church figures, when there are no official ones? They obviously don't count only those Armenians who attend church, or pay dues -- otherwise their figure for Istanbul would be much, much lower than 60,000, don't you agree? Holy Martyrs Church in Encino estimates there are 20,000 Armenians in the San Fernando Valley. Does that church have 20,000 dues-paying members? No. Do all 20,000 give allegiance to that church (or do some go to St. Peter's)? The fact is, the Diasporan church figures are probably accurate, because the churches need accurate figures to know just what is the population that they are serving. I think that church figures probably OVERESTIMATE the real figures, because they have an interest in inflating the numbers -- the higher the number of Armenians in any given area, the more clout and power the Armenian church will have in that area.
#24
Posted 29 January 2006 - 09:41 AM
One example is the Los Angeles figures, we know for instance that in Canada, this was calculated according to household, and was projected from it and the projection irronically did not directly take into account the direct counting of the population, but an average per household. Now, the thing is that Canada and the US use a very similar method. So, the question is..., is this figure the Armenian household, the projection, and if it is the projection, it is based on the average person per household? I need the sampling method, because I am very skeptical there.
As well as among many thing, Syria..., but I will leave it at that.
The 40,000 - 50,000 figure for Syria is very accurate. I have relatives there, and they tell me themselves -- "Gardzes te hay che mnatsadz Haleb..." A few years ago, the church even had a "badvo yerego" in Aleppo in honor of women who have had lots of children. I know, because my grandmother was one of the honorees. They were honoring those women to encourage young Armenian women in Aleppo today to form large families, because the population has dwindled. Aleppo can't even support a daily newspaper.
Lebanon is not so bad. Of course it is not the way it was before. In the 1970s, there were 21,000 children attending Armenian schools in Lebanon. Today, it is 9,000. And get this: According to the Armenian church's records, in 1997, there were 250 weddings. FORTY percent were mixed marriages. (Source: http://www.agbu.org/...ay.asp?A_ID=57)
In addition to that AGBU article, my figures are supported by an enyclopedia published in Yerevan in 2003. It's called "Hay Spiurk," and it gives information of every Armenian community in the world, by country. I was doing research at LA's Central Library, and I came across it. While I did not copy the population figures, I do remember that the book stated Lebanon's Armenian population at 120,000 and Syria's at 40-50,000.
As for half a million in Los Angeles. According to the US Census, there are 138,015 Armenian language speakers in Los Angeles County (this includes Hollywood, Valley, Glendale, Pasadena, etc). I understand there are many Armenians who do not speak Armenian. But not that many. Besides, they may be Armenian by blood (or half, or quarter), but they may not even consider themselves Armenian. I can't imagine that there are more than 300,000 Armenians in Los Angeles (and that is being generous, I think).
Arpa: What's wrong with church figures, when there are no official ones? They obviously don't count only those Armenians who attend church, or pay dues -- otherwise their figure for Istanbul would be much, much lower than 60,000, don't you agree? Holy Martyrs Church in Encino estimates there are 20,000 Armenians in the San Fernando Valley. Does that church have 20,000 dues-paying members? No. Do all 20,000 give allegiance to that church (or do some go to St. Peter's)? The fact is, the Diasporan church figures are probably accurate, because the churches need accurate figures to know just what is the population that they are serving. I think that church figures probably OVERESTIMATE the real figures, because they have an interest in inflating the numbers -- the higher the number of Armenians in any given area, the more clout and power the Armenian church will have in that area.
#25
Posted 29 January 2006 - 11:15 AM
Also in Jerusalem there are few Armenians left, they told me around 1,500 people, many have moved to Australia.
Edited by kakachik77, 29 January 2006 - 11:17 AM.
#26
Posted 29 January 2006 - 12:43 PM
#27
Posted 29 January 2006 - 03:32 PM
here is another source for US number. What I understood people who are from Lebanon, Turkey or Syria are included in their respective countries, NOT under Armenian. Am I wrong?
#28
Posted 29 January 2006 - 07:05 PM
#31
Posted 01 February 2006 - 10:49 PM
I've read that 40% claim too. It's really a shame, considering the fact that the community of Lebanon (where I'm from) is an experienced one, where Armenians stick to each other.
The policy of "Lebanon for the Lebanese" also plays a part in this.
#32
Posted 01 February 2006 - 11:25 PM
(My family is from Syria, by the way. I did visit Beirut though, in 2001.)
I guess the more westernized a country becomes, the more quickly Armenians there will assimilate. The US, South America, Russia, and Europe are hopeless for us. Even Turkey (Istanbul is practically European). I guess we can add Lebanon to that list now, too.
I guess Syria and Iran are our only Diasporan communities with real prospects of longevity.
#33
Posted 02 February 2006 - 11:12 PM
#34
Posted 03 February 2006 - 06:12 AM
Dave; it's not just persecution. In my opinion, Armenians don't assimilate with non Christians; such as Arabs and moslems, because it is taboo to marry them. At least that's how it was 20+ years ago. Maybe things are changing now. Anyhow, Lebanese people I believe, they are not all Arabs, but mixed some with Armenians, Greeks and somewhat Europeans too. They are much more Europeanized than Syrians or from other Arab countries. That may be the reason as well.
#35
Posted 03 February 2006 - 07:48 AM
#36
Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:08 AM
Bigger and more robust cultures have no problem marrying out of heir cultures. Only the weak and dying abhor it. Not without good reason.
Specially in those countries where marrying out of one’s religion and culture is a one way street. The reasons may be that those other religions consider apostasy, conversion as capital sins punishable by death however in the Armenian case the notion the xenophobic attitude that an Armenian is one who is born such, all other candidate need not apply.
How many mixed marriages do you know where the “otar” converts to Armenian?
Will be accept them? Or will they forever be: Meet my wife, husband. Her name is Colleen, she is Irish. Or, my husband Mohammed, he is Moslem ?
When is the last time that anyone converted and BECAME Armenian???
Edited by Arpa, 03 February 2006 - 11:08 AM.
#37
Posted 03 February 2006 - 04:45 PM
In here in the United States, I know two other American women that are involved themselves with Armenians and Garmir Khatch and they also bring their children to Armenian Centers and to Armenian schools. But they are rarety, I'm afraid.
#38
Posted 03 February 2006 - 07:17 PM
I think that it depends of how strong and reputed the Armenian community is in the city where the marriage takes place.
In pre-Islamic Iran (approx. 50 years ago), Armenians didn't intermarry with Iranians, even when Iran was nearly a European country.
#40
Posted 03 February 2006 - 08:50 PM
Will be accept them? Or will they forever be: Meet my wife, husband. Her name is Colleen, she is Irish. Or, my husband Mohammed, he is Moslem ?
When is the last time that anyone converted and BECAME Armenian???
Armenians won't premit it. Even if we exclude moslems & jews and we only consider inter-christian marriages, Armenian families aren't likely to accept the 'otar' wife/husband. Armenians often don't like to 'share' their culture - they will certainly be proud of it, but more often then not, Armenians regard their culture as a commodity onto which they wish to hold exclusive rights. The otar new comer to the family sadly doesn't have the right to share in that commodity - and if we're aiming for growth in diaspora, we must be more inclusive and create the community structures that not only accept mixed marriage, but help bring the otars of mixed marriages "into the fold" - so they can also be part of the Armenian culture.
What is this about French Canadian women being degenerates?? Very strange - I know only two 'French Canadian' women who are involved with Armenians, but both of them are strong supporters of Armenian and Armenian culture. One, in fact, has been to Armenia 6 times already - she even helps run tours for other 'otars' married to Armenians! But I won't use one simple example to make a crazy generalization. I just don't get the point of your post Takuhi jan...
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