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'Aratta Armenian City - State'


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#61 Takoush

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 04:07 PM

You guys Ashot and Aratta are sure using your good brains, time and energy into good use. I think it's a fine thing you are both doing. smile.gif

#62 Nané

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 03:11 PM

I am currently researching our history of the 3rd millenium BC (mainly reading Artak Movsisyan's books) and must say that I'm greatly impressed by (and appreciative of) the work being done by some of you. Thank you and please do keep at it.

BTW, I think posts #62 to #72 should be deleted. They are off topic and out of character.







Note: Thanks Nane, for pointing it out it's done. Yervant

Edited by Nané, 22 January 2009 - 07:54 PM.


#63 Aratta-Kingdom

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 03:48 PM

apres Nane jan.




Aratta Part I :



Aratta Part II: http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#64 Lion1700

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 10:00 AM

"Պետականության, բարձր զարգացած մշակույթի և դեպի օտար երկրներ քաղաքակրթական արժեքների տարածման փառահեղ մի դարաշրջան, որը մեզանում դեռևս չի արժանացել պատշաճ գնահատման",- այսպես է բնորոշում այս ժամանակաշրջանը Արտակ Մովսիսյանը...

Edited by Lion1700, 28 February 2009 - 10:01 AM.


#65 varvaravan

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 07:21 AM

First of all, I would like to thank HyeForum and A. Movsisyan, G.Nazaryan and M. Gavoukjian and all others for helping to make an ArattaKingdom site. This is incredible and we need more and more that kind of sites to lighten up the somehow wiped off ancient Armenia's history.
Besides that, a few days ago I was searching on Wikipedia regarding Aratta and read how the user and one of administrators disputing regarding Aratta and A.Movsisyan. There was about A. Movsisyan being as a nationalist historian and Armenian pseudohistory an dthat his books and M. Gavoukjian's also are out of sale and not accessible to verify the information in their books. (You can check it on that site the line says break1,break2). I was astonished by the tone and this very subjective approach. I am not very proficient in ancient history of Armenia, can't make any comments. But it must be. Can any of Minor Asia specialists see what is going on at that site of Wikipedia. Just open up Aratta.
And again thanks to all of organizers.
Varvaravan.

#66 Lion1700

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 07:32 AM

varvaravan

What a site?? Tell it's adress, please:)

#67 Zartonk

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 11:10 AM

QUOTE (varvaravan @ Jul 28 2009, 08:21 AM)
First of all, I would like to thank HyeForum and A. Movsisyan, G.Nazaryan and M. Gavoukjian and all others for helping to make an ArattaKingdom site. This is incredible and we need more and more that kind of sites to lighten up the somehow wiped off ancient Armenia's history.
Besides that, a few days ago I was searching on Wikipedia regarding Aratta and read how the user and one of administrators disputing regarding Aratta and A.Movsisyan. There was about A. Movsisyan being as a nationalist historian and Armenian pseudohistory an dthat his books and M. Gavoukjian's also are out of sale and not accessible to verify the information in their books. (You can check it on that site the line says break1,break2). I was astonished by the tone and this very subjective approach. I am not very proficient in ancient history of Armenia, can't make any comments. But it must be. Can any of Minor Asia specialists see what is going on at that site of Wikipedia. Just open up Aratta.
And again thanks to all of organizers.
Varvaravan.


Hello varvaravan and welcome to HF. I like your username smile.gif

Whenever the history of a region deals with one national group and a varying ethnic presence in that region, there is bound to be subjective bias supporting and opposing a given perspective. Fortunately, the valuable efforts of Mr. Movsisyan are, as far as my limited knowledge allows me to percieve, well-grounded in empirical historic evidence.



#68 varvaravan

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 12:12 PM

QUOTE (Lion1700 @ Jul 28 2009, 08:32 AM)
varvaravan

What a site?? Tell it's adress, please:)




this is the site I am talking about.
varvaravan.


Talk:Aratta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Section removed...|Mythical Aratta|Cambridge History...|Messages copied...
2 Mythical Aratta. 3 Cambridge History of Iran ... 9 More statements by Witzel re:Aratta. 9.1 Arbitrary break. 9.2

#69 Louise

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 10:40 AM

QUOTE (varvaravan @ Jul 28 2009, 12:12 PM)
this is the site I am talking about.
varvaravan.


Talk:Aratta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Section removed...|Mythical Aratta|Cambridge History...|Messages copied...
2 Mythical Aratta. 3 Cambridge History of Iran ... 9 More statements by Witzel re:Aratta. 9.1 Arbitrary break. 9.2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from Louise . I looked at your arevordi blogspot. I found it very interesting as I am interested

in prehistoric archeology. But I cannot discuss well as my language of culture is French. But I read well English.

#70 man

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:57 AM

I have that book in English of Aratta, the first one the original Sumerian text or whatever survived of it, published in 1950 or close to that date. It is a small book and I can post it here if anyone is interested to complete this study or cap it.

And Louise! I think it would be fine if you post in French, for me at least that's ok. For those who do not know French..there are many translation engines.

#71 Vanetsi

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:18 AM

Do you have a digital version?

#72 man

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:59 AM

No, the paper book only, and I have to type in this forum by hand if interest is shown by others. But I am aware than an Armenian historian of New Jersey, USA, had a website dedicated to Arrata, and in his website (if my memory is not failing me) he had posted that book or sections of it. I have to go back to google search for him when I have time, I do not know if his website is still active. I initially become interested in Arrata when I read an article in National Geography magazine where it was saying about ruins of an ancient city in southern Iran as could, not really because they were not sure, possible Arrata. As I did some study and I was convinced that Arrata Kingdom was in Ancient Armenia.

#73 man

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:47 PM

The Sumerians, an ancient peoples and one of the first civilizations in the world called Ararat, Arrata. In their great epic poems of Gilgamesh and Arrata, they tell of the land of their ancestors, the Arratans in the Highlands of Armenia. The Sumerians also in the epic poems describe the Great Flood and the rebirth of life after the terrible deluge that fell from the Highlands of Armenia unto the lands of Mesopotamia and the Fertile Crescent. The Sumerians had a very close connection with the ancestral Land of Ararat and considered it as their ancestral homeland (many historians and archaeologists are convinced that the Sumerians initially lived in Northern Mesopotamia and Armenian Highland).The Greeks believed that the people who first worked with bronze and iron came from the same area, they called them Khaldi.
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Sumerian and Akkadian written monuments of Mesopotamia give priceless information on the history of Armenia in III-II millennia B.C. Sumerians, who were the creators of one of the first civilizations, before assimilating in Southern Mesopotamia lived in northern Mesopotamia and in the Southern regions of the Armenian highland. Leaving it they kept the connection with the highland for a long time. Therefore the earliest mentioning of the highland we find in the Sumerian written monuments. Sumerians created the first cuneiform, which was adopted by the Akkadians of the Semitic origin in the second half of the III millennium BC, later it was widely spread in the countries of Southwestern Asia, including Van kingdom.

In the Sumerian manuscripts land of Aratta was mentioned. Aratta was the first State formation of the Armenian highland known so far. Information about it refers to the XXVIII–XXVII centuries BC. What do Sumerian sources tell about Aratta land, its location, its State structure, economy, culture and other questions? In the epic poem Arrata was mentioned as a high mountainous country. They had to pass Uruki river to go from Aratta to Sumer. The only river passing through city Uruk is Euphrates, the only mountainous region in the basin of which is the Armenian Highland. Therefore, Aratta was certainly found in the Armenian Highland. It is also evidenced by the toponyms mentioned in the way from Aratta to Sumer. Among them, is for example land of Zamua. The latter is in the south of Lake Urmia (In the Assyrian sources Lake Urmia is called “Sea of Zamua land”), therefore continuing Sumer-Zamua line we’ll reach the Armenian Highland. It’s known that with the Armenian Highland the worship of the god of wisdom and cosmic water – Hay(a) was connected, whose son Hayk was the patron god of Aratta. Arrata was a theocratic state. Thit means that Aratta had such a government, in which the clergy reigned either secular or spiritual power.The king of Aratta was also the highest priest of the country. For the solution of the important issues concerning the country the priest-king convened Senior’s meeting. The main economic official of the state is mentioned, who was called <<Administrator>>. Many economic officials are also mentioned in Aratta such as tax collectors, superintendents, which show that the country had a developed state system. Certain information has reached about economic relations of Aratta and Sumer. People of Aratta imported wheat and other tiller products and instead exported metals and precious stones. Besides, construction materials – <<mountainous stones>> were sent to south. In Sumer as a force and vehicle jackasses were used, but in Aratta- horses. The use of horses in the economy and military-art brought unprecedented progress. In the Sumerian manuscripts information was preserved about the army of Aratta and its fortified capital. According to one of them, Sumerian army occupied the capital of Aratta of the same name, but after a year of occupation it couldn’t occupy it. <<They were throwing arrows from the walls of Aratta all the year and like rain stones were thrown from slings the whole year. So the days and months passed and it became a year>>. One of the most important information about Aratta is the use of its own writing, which is also proved by the hieroglyphic monuments discovered in the Armenian Highland in the III millennium BC, which haven’t transcribed yet. In XXVIII – XXVII centuries architects from Aratta went to Sumer to build great buildings there. In XXVI –XXV centuries’ BC manuscripts the Subarians, settled in Mesopotamia, are mentioned as clerks, bakers, blacksmiths, gardeners, etc. The fact, that in the period of Aratta, the Armenian Highland was united into one cultural zone, which is accepted in the archaeological literature to call Early Bronze Age culture, is of great interest.

via http://www.armin.am/en/Armenian_history_Ancient_period_Aratta

#74 man

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:35 AM

Why should we study the book 'Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta' (translated by S.N. Kramer)?

Because it can be an endevour of self-discovery for modern Armenians.

While I was in vacation in the center of Yerevan at summer I noticed how happy the people were at evening times when they filled the streets and plazas of the Center till late time past.

This happiness is one of the traits of the Armenian race, it survived despite brutal and bloody persecution from the Muslims surrounding Armenia and occupying Armenia. This book, of some 5000 years ago, acknowledges and affirms this Armenian characteristic of happiness when it mention and refers to Mt Ararat as "The Happy Mountain."

That mountain was "happy" to the ancient Sumerians because the people living around it were happy people. What we can conclude from this fact?

That Armenians then were healthy people because without health they would not be happy. They had enough food to feed themselves. They were rich monetarily and were doing commerce and exchange with each others and with outsiders; they were able to buy what they wanted and what they needed. They had houses to live in, nice clothes to wear, and had prime enjoyable time in family, with friends and with neighbors. They had festivities which they celebrated. They were safe and secure in their homes and in their country.

They were happy because their rulers were not oppressing them and they were free to act, to speak, to sing, to dance according to their own wishes and desires.

They were hard working people having opportunities for education, for doing business, for entrepreneurship and for renovation. They were artistic and happy to create things and works of art, decoration and building with stones and bricks.


#75 man

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:59 AM

Another thing I noticed is that this king of Erech or Uruk by the name of Enmerkar is an Armenian leader of some Armenian tribes, tribes who left the highland of Armenia and emigrated to Sumeria taking their goddess Inanna (the goddess of Kingdom of Aratta) to the south with them.

From the correspondence between Enmerkar and the king of Aratta it is clear that Enmerkar is familiar with Armenia and her people, her king, and her economy and religion. Too familiar indeed that most likely he lived there before moving to Sumer.

Come to think of the word Enmerkar, En-mer-kar in Armenian means: He (en), our (mer), stone/rock (kar). That is "he-is-our-rock," a nice name for a leader; an Armenian leader? Most likely.

#76 onjig

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 05:22 PM

This is good reading, well written. Has the project continued?

#77 Ararta

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 07:42 AM

Nice linked of the name :) for the Lord of Enmerkar. Actually no doubt Sumerians has ancestor witg Armenians "Arartians/ Urartians/Arattians"
1_ they were the lonly Indo_European languistic ( I can say the old Armenian even ) cause Armenians and Sumerians had similar words.
2 _ Sumerians flee of there city's after the nomadic Semitic population has invaded there lands and cities .... Where they went ? Sure to there cousins and there highlands were there Deities live .
3_ Urartu : wouldn't be the possibility its a name merged Uruk and aratta
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