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How much more official stance do we need?


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#1 Z'areh

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 09:39 AM

Erdogan speaking in the Azeri parliament as the Prime Minister of Turkey (and not just an individual Joe) declares that "unless Armenia ends the occupation and K.arabakh is liberated Turkey will not open its border with Armenia", he goes on to say that it is the Armenian media disinformation that talks about a "roadmap" without preconditions in a futile effort "to drive a wedge between our people". According to him the Armenia media is lying.

Cristal clear views by the Turkish side for the world to hear.

But, we also know that it is the Armenian officials, to be precise Foreign Minister Nalbandian, who insist that there are no preconditions in establishing relations with Turkey, to which the Armenian media is simply transmitting that announcement to the public. Now, is Erdogan calling Nalbandian a lier? Are the Armenian officials lying to the public when their expressed views are so diametrically (and dramatically) opposite to those of Turkish leaders?

What is going on here?

One thing is sure, when Turkey so openly and OFFICIALLY says one thing, and our side talks about a "road map" with secret contents, this cannot be good for us.

What kind of a joke is the Sarkisian administration playing with the Armenian public? How can the Armenians tolerate such, call it amateur, devious, politically barefooted attitude?



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Edited by Z'areh, 13 May 2009 - 09:41 AM.


#2 DominO

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 10:17 AM

It's not Sarkissian, the prime minister of Turkey has every reason to lie. Do you really think that Sarkissian will even consider such a deal? Turkey is backtracking its called doing damage control.

QUOTE (Z'areh @ May 13 2009, 11:39 AM)
Erdogan speaking in the Azeri parliament as the Prime Minister of Turkey (and not just an individual Joe) declares that "unless Armenia ends the occupation and K.arabakh is liberated Turkey will not open its border with Armenia", he goes on to say that it is the Armenian media disinformation that talks about a "roadmap" without preconditions in a futile effort "to drive a wedge between our people". According to him the Armenia media is lying.

Cristal clear views by the Turkish side for the world to hear.

But, we also know that it is the Armenian officials, to be precise Foreign Minister Nalbandian, who insist that there are no preconditions in establishing relations with Turkey, to which the Armenian media is simply transmitting that announcement to the public. Now, is Erdogan calling Nalbandian a lier? Are the Armenian officials lying to the public when their expressed views are so diametrically (and dramatically) opposite to those of Turkish leaders?

What is going on here?

One thing is sure, when Turkey so openly and OFFICIALLY says one thing, and our side talks about a "road map" with secret contents, this cannot be good for us.

What kind of a joke is the Sarkisian administration playing with the Armenian public? How can the Armenians tolerate such, call it amateur, devious, politically barefooted attitude?



.

Edited by DominO, 13 May 2009 - 10:18 AM.


#3 DominO

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 11:39 AM

I guess Turkey does ignore that the only way to create back an organization like ASALA, it would be to grant Artsakh to Azerbaijan. With the only difference that it won't be a small group this time and that there is not a single Armenian in the world, after the genocide and what we have lost, who will ever forget such a mistake. Granting Artsakh to Azerbaijan will turn the most moderate Armenians into fanatics, there is a limit to what a nation can accept. And I'm not even speaking about what will be happening inside Artsakh in daily basis because every single of them will consider it as occupation.

Edited by DominO, 13 May 2009 - 11:42 AM.


#4 DominO

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 11:51 AM

Also, independence is a concession already, since it should be attached to Armenia.

#5 Z'areh

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 12:22 PM

QUOTE (DominO @ May 13 2009, 10:17 AM)
It's not Sarkissian, the prime minister of Turkey has every reason to lie. Do you really think that Sarkissian will even consider such a deal? Turkey is backtracking its called doing damage control.


I guess we'll have to wait and see how the President and the Foreign Minister of Armenia will react to these latest clear-cut declarations from the head of the Turkish government, Erdogan.

This goes beyond just playing to "internal politics". This declaration is nothing short of outlining a government policy towards an issue, uttered in the Parliament of a conflicting side.
This cannot be brushed aside as being just "made for internal consumption".

If in fact Erdogan is lying, which is highly probable (since the charade of "rapprochement" clearly achieved the immediate aim, for now, of scuttling a possible genocide declaration by Obama), then our side should respond as well in a very forceful and clear-cut manner and go as far as declaring the current Turkish-Armenian rapprochement process as dead and finished, all due to these Turkish government declared policies. It is a very good and opportune time for Sarkisian to use Erdogan's intransigence to get out of this shameful spectacle. We should put a stop to this so-called "football" diplomacy that is clearly being played in the half field on our side, dangerously close to our goal posts.

But to do so, Sarkisian first has to kiss goodbye to the million dollars that he would be awarded in winning the Nobel Peace prize. A difficult task for an oligarch.

Soon we'll find out!



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#6 Arpa

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 12:56 PM

QUOTE (Z'areh @ May 13 2009, 06:22 PM)
I guess we'll have to wait and see how the President and the Foreign Minister of Armenia will react to these latest clear-cut declarations from the head of the Turkish government, Erdogan.
===
for Sarkisian to use Erdogan's intransigence to get out of this shameful spectacle. We should put a stop to this so-called "football" diplomacy that is clearly being played in the half field on our side, dangerously close to our goal posts.
But to do so, Sarkisian first has to kiss goodbye to the million dollars that he would be awarded in winning the Nobel Peace prize. A difficult task for an oligarch.
Soon we'll find out!.

Dear Zareh, first off my gratitudes and congratulations that you chose to initriate this thread under its proper topic instead of under that dreaded G.
Yes, indeed, we have waited so long, yet all of a sudden we seem to be on a fast track to once and for all close this and other chapters in our history. We have waited so long, yet we seem to once again ready to "singn on the dotted line" without really undersatanding the conditions, just a we did so many times, as in those so called "treaties" of a joke, the likes of Moscow, Kars, Gumri, Lauzanne and.... yes, Sevres.
====
An editorialette;
Please don’t get me wrong. I don’t ever wish to go to that dreadedTopic of the Big G, yet pne cannot help but notice that during the past couple of months it has been so quiet. Besides the fact that the entire Forum has been in hibernation. Are we having FF/Forum Fatigue? To me, it is like the picture of an expectant father, who after a pregnancy period of 100 years, pacing the floor of the maternity ward to see what the baby will be like. At this point, it seems like the baby has arrived but it is DOA, stillborn. Our much trusted “doctors”, the likes of Obama and company reneged on their “Hippocratic/hypocritical Oath”.
SAD!!! VERY SAD!!!


Edited by Arpa, 13 May 2009 - 01:15 PM.


#7 DominO

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Posted 14 May 2009 - 11:38 AM

Zareh, this is not Canadian politic, where someone can loose his sit because of an exposed lie. Lying is part of the game, Erdogans claim that Artsakh has to be returned was also echoed by Bryza. The use of the media is part of the negotiation. The only way to poll the Armenian public opinion, is to make such blunt statment and see how the Armenian press as well as Armenians react. So far, we have been lazzy..., as a result of which Armenia should have made announcement of plans to increase military budgets and Artsakh army repositioning and making warnings that they are increasing their defense due to Erdogan and Bryza statment. It should made clear that not a single inch of Artsakh will ever be in Azerbaijans soil.

QUOTE (Z'areh @ May 13 2009, 02:22 PM)
I guess we'll have to wait and see how the President and the Foreign Minister of Armenia will react to these latest clear-cut declarations from the head of the Turkish government, Erdogan.

This goes beyond just playing to "internal politics". This declaration is nothing short of outlining a government policy towards an issue, uttered in the Parliament of a conflicting side.
This cannot be brushed aside as being just "made for internal consumption".

If in fact Erdogan is lying, which is highly probable (since the charade of "rapprochement" clearly achieved the immediate aim, for now, of scuttling a possible genocide declaration by Obama), then our side should respond as well in a very forceful and clear-cut manner and go as far as declaring the current Turkish-Armenian rapprochement process as dead and finished, all due to these Turkish government declared policies. It is a very good and opportune time for Sarkisian to use Erdogan's intransigence to get out of this shameful spectacle. We should put a stop to this so-called "football" diplomacy that is clearly being played in the half field on our side, dangerously close to our goal posts.

But to do so, Sarkisian first has to kiss goodbye to the million dollars that he would be awarded in winning the Nobel Peace prize. A difficult task for an oligarch.

Soon we'll find out!



.

Edited by DominO, 14 May 2009 - 11:51 AM.


#8 DominO

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Posted 14 May 2009 - 11:42 AM

Armenia should plan settlement of population to Artsakh, boost its number.

#9 AK-47

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Posted 14 May 2009 - 03:16 PM

QUOTE (DominO @ May 14 2009, 01:42 PM)
Armenia should plan settlement of population to Artsakh, boost its number.

We are already 15 years behind in this and there is still no sign that our authorities are interested in resettling our lands, especially outside the former NKAO. The only glimmer of hope we saw was last year's mass weddings in Artsakh with the intent of boosting the population. Had something like this been planned 15 years ago, we would've already achieved a degree of success in boosting our population in this area. The current 150 000 number is too low, we have to get it up to at least 300 000 which is Nakhichevan level. And of this 150 000, 90% live within the former NKAO while Karvachar and Kashatagh remain virtually empty, despite the importance, vastness and wealth of these areas.

Edited by AK-47, 14 May 2009 - 03:17 PM.


#10 Harut

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 01:49 PM

and here is the official response... yet another nothing staying statement...

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Erdogan’s statements in Baku draw reaction from Yerevan


Official Yerevan opposes Turkey’s interference in the Karabakh issue Published: 15 May, 2009 Article toolsprintable versionemail to friendcomments (4)share the articleOfficial Yerevan has responded to the recent statements made by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan who again linked Armenian-Turkish normalization with Armenian concessions to Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh.

“Turkey’s attempts to interfere with the Nagorno-Karabakh settlement process may harm this process,” said Armenian Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandyan Thursday, responding to Erdogan’s statements made in while on a visit to Azerbaijan the previous day.

According to the Armenian Foreign Ministry, Nalbandyan defined that “the negotiations on the settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh problem proceed through the mediation of the cochairmen of the [OSCE] Minsk Group, on the basis of the Madrid principles and the sides are trying to reduce differences in their positions.”

While in Baku on May 13, Turkish Premier Erdogan said that Turkey will not open its border with Armenia until Armenia withdraws its troops from Nagorno-Karabakh.

President Serzh Sargsyan, who has insisted all along that the rapprochement between Yerevan and Ankara involves no preconditions, also reacted to the statements the same day.

According to the presidential press office, the Armenian leader said the best way for Turkey to assist in the Karabakh peace process would be “abstaining from interfering with it altogether.”

http://www.armeniano...i...235&lng=eng




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