11 replies to this topic

[Arturian]

Recent news emanating from the Holy See of Cilicia, in Antelias, is most disconcerting, to say the least. They are disturbing, and they may serve as another nail in the coffin of church unity. Indeed, an encyclical signed by His Holiness Aram I comes to create another fait-accompli in the ever growing process of the division within the Armenian Church. This new decree comes to establish a new prelacy in Canada, something long in the making for the observers of the discrepancy between the words and deeds of the powers-to-be in Antelias.


When the new Diocese under Etchmiadzine jurisdiction was formed in Canada, the agents of division held on to their turf and refused to join the new diocese and gradually, and steadily, they worked their way into establishing new parishes in growing Canadian-Armenian communities. The last battle was fought in the tiny community of Vancouver, where a handful of Armenians were "endowed" with two churches, courtesy of usurpers of Antelias.


The next step that followed was the formation of a vicarage, under the auspices of the Eastern Prelacy, and now we face the inevitable reality of a separate Prelacy, under the jurisdiction of Antelias and opposed to the legitimate Diocese under the jurisdiction of the Catholicos of all Armenians, at Etchmiadzine.


This process lasted a long period, outliving at least the terms of two Catholicoses in Antelias. The actors have come and left the scene, but the conspiracy of division remained in place as the constant policy of Tashnag-dominated church in Antelias.


Those who have had the opportunity of hearing or reading Aram Iþs thunderous speeches and sermons remember his all too familiar theme that "the Armenian Church is one and united", while, at the same time undermining the foundation of that very same unity by expending new parishes and churches in the Gulf countries, discrediting the Mother See at the World Council of Churches and other international forums, and upstaging His Holiness Karekin II, at every single trip, action and occasion.


Ever since the collapse of the Soviet Empire, Antelias and its masters have run out of every conceivable excuse that they are fighting the ungodly Communist rule, which controls Etchmiadzine. Since Armenia’s independence Antelias leaders have shown their true colors by holding on to the divided section of the church, both as political pawn and cash cow. It is an open secret that the Tashnag party has full control of the church finances and also uses the captive church as a political leverage to score selfish gains in Armenia.


During Ter Petrossian's unwarranted campaign to alienate and destroy the traditional political parties (and particularly the Tashnag party) clergy in Antelias obediently served their masters' political agenda.


The announcement at Etchmiadzine, regarding the news of the new prelacy in Canada, underscores the limits of arrogance that Antelias demonstrates in its actions when it points that the Mother See "had not been notified officially" about this illegitimate action.


This action dashes all hopes of witnessing unity within the Armenian Church anytime soon.


With the election of Aram I, the course of church unity has taken an adverse turn and there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel. One of the casualties of the schism within our church is the adoption of the new bylaws, which would guide the church into the 21st Century and beyond. As long as Antelias remains at loggerheads with the Mother See, no universally acceptable bylaws can be adopted to be uniformly applied in all communities and levels of church hierarchy; that in turn leaves the door open to any self-indulging clergyman to defy church authority, as it happened recently in Moscow.


Fortunately a dynamic, young, wise and principled pontiff has been elected to the throne of St. Gregory the Illuminator to guard vigorously the authority and supremacy of the Mother See at Etchmiadzine.


Antelias and the Tashnags seem to have determined to keep the Armenian Church divided. The leadership within the Etchmiadzine camp cannot escape also the blame, first for the internecine struggles, clashes of egos and, above all, lacking leadership in this fight imposed on our church.


Furthermore, here in America, we were lulled into believing that church unity was around the corner, while the dissident church was in the process of consolidating its gains and looking for new prey. For over a quarter century, unity committees continued to play the charade of negotiations, and the skeptics were castigated as non-believers in church unity. A group of naive ? perhaps well-intentioned ? leaders negotiated with the Prelacy representatives, believing that the church could be reunited on these shores while the rift was growing worldwide. The Diocesan representatives were not awakened until some of the Prelacy messengers themselves blew the whistle that the party had charged them with the mission of giving the runaround to the negotiating group and that they never intended to reach an equitable solution to the division. The Diocese did not educate its followers on the issues dividing our church, while any member of the dissident church was well informed and mobilized to follow the leadership in its mischievous course.


Even more, those in the media who warned the public about the futility and pitfalls of the deceptive negotiations were asked not to interject "partisan politics" or "old country feuds in our church", thus playing into the hands of a well-disciplined and highly motivated group of people who had determined to take over the entire Armenian Church, to use it for their political ends.


Will this new shock serve as a wake up call to our pundits? We seriously doubt it.


The formation of a new prelacy in Canada is another blow to church unity, further deepening the division in the Armenian Church.


It seems that the Holy See at Etchmiadzine and its followers are in for a long and ugly battle to restore and preserve the unity of the Armenian Church.


Yervand Azatian , Armenian Mirror Spectator

[hayemyes]

I for one cannot accept such words from an ignorant and foolish person. I belong to the Cilician Church. And Ii must say, that what the Echmiadzin Church wants by merging with us is to take off all traces of the true Armenian Catholicosate. We all know that the Cilician is the true one: it was transported from Echmiadzin to Aghtamar, Ggars, Ani, and then Cilicia in order to overcome the difficulties; later on, when everything was calm in Armenia and they wanted to transport the See back to the motherland, the Catholicos refused, biut gave permission to create another See in Armenioa, and that's where u guyz come in. I'm not dishonouring ur Church and I believe we truly are one. And the decisions of our own Church has nothing to do with u guyz, cuz we dont need to ask ur permission to do anyhting, since we truly are the original one. So we didnt add new churches or anything, we just became seperate from the Eastern American Diocese. And for ur idea that our Church is controlled by Tashnaks, its not true, cuz we accept all kinds of ppl, unlike u guys who discriminate between us. Example, my friend went to an Armenian party organized by the AGBU, but he is tashnag, but he went cuz he loved the singer, and what do ur guyz do? They put him in the back corner of the hall. We, on the other side, honour our guests and accept them. If ur gonna think that our Church is run by Tashnaks, then I should be ready to think that urs is run by Ramgavars, who I must add, remember, wanted to keep the Communist flag.

[TashnagZinvor]

Giligians are Giligians, Hayastancis are Hayastancis.....they have no business fusing together. Giligians fight and die for Giligia, and the rest can die for theres. If the church becomes one, Giligian honor will be lost, as will its future.

[Nakharar]

Though Aram I purports himself to be the Catholicos of the Holy See of Cilicia, don't they along with the Patriarchates of Jerusalem and Istanbul accept the primacy of the Catholicosate of Echmiadzin, which is after all "primus inter pares" first among equals? Which implies that there is no absolute authority invested in the Catholicos of Echmiadzin. I don't know much about ecclesiastic affairs but the authority in establishing new prelacies and all other church affairs lies with all of the four patriarchates combined when they hold the holy synod meetings once a year. These arguments about being the original church vs. just demonstrates that this has nothing to do with religious matters but are simply ideologically motivated. The church is not a gentleman's club. It's survival and honor doesn't rest on the petty arguments of a few people who pick sides as if they are in a soccer match. Thank God I am an agnostic.

[joseph parikian]

Armenian Mirror Spectator is the mouth of the Ramgavar party
When Armenia was rulled by the comunists they never published any artical criticizing the Soviet Union
They even discard the Tricolor flag of Armenia and now they switch alliances and they are trying to brown nose Echmeiadzin

Edited by joseph parikian, 12 December 2003 - 03:25 PM.

[daystar001]

Fortunately a dynamic, young, wise and principled pontiff has been elected to the throne of St. Gregory the Illuminator to guard vigorously the authority and supremacy of the Mother See at Etchmiadzine.

Principled? Is this suppose to be a joke? Maybe Karekin would know what's going on out there if he wasn't so busy building a new home with Louise Simone.

The author of this article should be ashamed of blowing Etchmiadzin in public. Have some dignity for chrissake.

[Hratch]

Example, my friend went to an Armenian party organized by the AGBU, but he is tashnag, but he went cuz he loved the singer, and what do ur guyz do? They put him in the back corner of the hall

If I could ask all of you a favour...please do not add such comments. WE all had our case of similar events but It helps nobody's case to publicise such acts. Me as a young armenian work to erase such acts, so instead of saying he said she did he did..how about we talk about the good sides...I'm sure everybody has a few stories...I ask all of you to share your stories...starting now...

[Vigil]

Giligians are Giligians, Hayastancis are Hayastancis.....they have no business fusing together. Giligians fight and die for Giligia, and the rest can die for theres. If the church becomes one, Giligian honor will be lost, as will its future.

Maybe the root of the problem is right infront of us maybe we just need to look closer.

If I could ask all of you a favour...please do not add such comments. WE all had our case of similar events but It helps nobody's case to publicise such acts. Me as a young armenian work to erase such acts, so instead of saying he said she did he did..how about we talk about the good sides...I'm sure everybody has a few stories...I ask all of you to share your stories...starting now...

I agree with you to certain extent, but we are not Turkish. We should never censor or refrain from calling people out for the sake of nationalistic pride. If there is a problem with the Armenian government, church, or society we should be brave enough to address it and solve it before it esculates.

The Japanese have a interesting method of solving problems. Instead of wasting their time on the error they the concentrate on a solution. This is why they are leaders in the global economy and have done so on the string of islands they call home without the need of natural resources.

Edited by Vigil, 31 May 2004 - 03:30 AM.

[Hratch]

I agree with you to certain extent, but we are not Turkish.

Me saying that we should not publicly advertise such events does not make us Turkish. I do not promote censorship yet I promote a united feeling between all Armenians.

We should never censor or refrain from calling people out for the sake of nationalistic pride. If there is a problem with the Armenian government, church, or society we should be brave enough to address it and solve it before it esculates.

For me to be brave does not mean to address the situation verbally in public and escalate a "separatist"(separatist might not be the best word but you get my point) feeling inside the Armenian community. To be brave in such situations is going beyond one's "nationalistic pride" and feeling truly Armenian with one another....

[Vigil]

For me to be brave does not mean to address the situation verbally in public and escalate a "separatist"(separatist might not be the best word but you get my point) feeling inside the Armenian community. To be brave in such situations is going beyond one's "nationalistic pride" and feeling truly Armenian with one another....

I just feel that if there is foul play in a community it should be addressed and solved, but at no point should it be swept under the rug for the sake of hindering public relations.

However, I do feel that the media targets Armenians and tries to portray them negatively, which creates a rift between Armenians and the diaspera.

In fact yesterday I was watching a news broadcast and they stated that a African-American and what seemed to "resemble" an Armenian robbed a pharmacy. This is the kind of publicity that should be analyzed and corrected because Armenians are not identifiable by race. They are a ethnicity, but they can not be differintiated by outer features.

So my question to the news broadcaster is on what basis are they connecting a man that resembles a Cacasian/White with a person of Armenian ethnicity?

This is the kind of public relations that we should improve because they are desperatly trying to connect us to a group of people that lean more towards the lower socio-economic class.

Edited by Vigil, 31 May 2004 - 03:30 AM.

[Arek]

I just feel that if there is foul play in a community it should be addressed and solved, but at no point should it be swept under the rug for the sake of hindering public relations.

However, I do feel that the media targets Armenians and tries to portray them negatively, which creates a rift between Armenians and the diaspera.

In fact yesterday I was watching a news broadcast and they stated that a African-American and what seemed to "resemble" an Armenian robbed a pharmacy. This is the kind of publicity that should be analyzed and corrected because Armenians are not identifiable by race. They are a ethnicity, but they can not be differintiated by outer features.

So my question to the news broadcaster is on what basis are they connecting a man that resembles a Cacasian/White with a person of Armenian ethnicity?

This is the kind of public relations that we should improve because they are desperatly trying to connect us to a group of people that lean more towards the lower socio-economic class.

testing.

[karakash]

I for one cannot accept such words from an ignorant and foolish person. I belong to the Cilician Church. And Ii must say, that what the Echmiadzin Church wants by merging with us is to take off all traces of the true Armenian Catholicosate. We all know that the Cilician is the true one: it was transported from Echmiadzin to Aghtamar, Ggars, Ani, and then Cilicia in order to overcome the difficulties; later on, when everything was calm in Armenia and they wanted to transport the See back to the motherland, the Catholicos refused, biut gave permission to create another See in Armenioa, and that's where u guyz come in. I'm not dishonouring ur Church and I believe we truly are one. And the decisions of our own Church has nothing to do with u guyz, cuz we dont need to ask ur permission to do anyhting, since we truly are the original one. So we didnt add new churches or anything, we just became seperate from the Eastern American Diocese. And for ur idea that our Church is controlled by Tashnaks, its not true, cuz we accept all kinds of ppl, unlike u guys who discriminate between us. Example, my friend went to an Armenian party organized by the AGBU, but he is tashnag, but he went cuz he loved the singer, and what do ur guyz do? They put him in the back corner of the hall. We, on the other side, honour our guests and accept them. If ur gonna think that our Church is run by Tashnaks, then I should be ready to think that urs is run by Ramgavars, who I must add, remember, wanted to keep the Communist flag.

Azadian has no clue.