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#41 ED

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 12:04 AM

in my life and around me, and I have seen many, be it an Armenia or in outside of it, an Armenian family, especially the father!! never, ever! considered or had seen there offspring baby girls as second class citizens, there might be an individual cases, but as always lets not nationalize the sad lonely case (s)

in India its a shame to have a daughter, and so is in china, now this is national level

I wish I had a daughter smile.gif

#42 MosJan

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 12:08 AM

Qeri jan yerbeq ush chi wink.gif

#43 Shahan Araradian

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 12:53 AM

QUOTE(Anahid Takouhi @ Jun 23 2007, 11:02 PM) View Post
Quite unfortunate that our backward gender issues and ways are derived by our backward part Mongolian Asiatic, part Iranian "Barsig", and part Arabic influences of our neighbours throughout the years.

I honestly and thruthfully think that if we had different predicament and neighbours; today we would have had regarded women much more like the Westerners and the Europeans do, more like a man's equal.

It is up to the younger generation of Armenians who are parents to start changing it now. As it starts from home. If every mother and every father start regarding their offspring girls as first class citizens instead of second class, hopefully in about 10-20 years or sooner the gender issues will minimize and we'll also regard women equal to men.

Don't know which Armenian families from which Armenian communities you're talking about, but other than the one in Armenia, every one I've been to treats women as equals -- from Lebanon to Canada to San Francisco (Western Armenians) to France. (I haven't been to Iran, so I can't speak of it; Iranian-Armenian women do seem to be on the dominant side in the relationships in the U.S. though, perhaps hinting at an "emancipation" when coming to the U.S.)

(Լիբանանահայ կիներուն շատերը նոյնիսկ in-home սբասուհի/սբասուհիներ կ'ուենան, եւ ոմանք թագուհիի մը վայելած կեանքէն պակաս չէն ապրիր...)

Edited by Shahan Araradian, 24 June 2007 - 12:56 AM.


#44 ED

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 01:27 AM

Shahen, how many other than the one in Armenia families do you know?

typical stereo typing

in Italy in 1979 when we were, there was an Armenian family from Beirut, the man who was constantly cussing at the airport to his wife, if it were not of my fathers intervention he would of gone to jail right there.

should i conclude all Lebanese man are eshegs?




#45 Shahan Araradian

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 01:35 AM

QUOTE(Edward @ Jun 24 2007, 02:27 AM) View Post
Shahen, how many other than the one in Armenia families do you know?

typical stereo typing

in Italy in 1979 when we were, there was an Armenian family from Beirut, the man who was constantly cussing at the airport to his wife, if it were not of my fathers intervention he would of gone to jail right there.

should i conclude all Lebanese man are eshegs?

Come on now. No offense, but Հայաստանցի men are known to treat women harshly/without respect/in a vulgar way for the most part.

#46 ED

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 01:35 AM

Հարգելի Շահեն, իմ կինս յերպեք թույլ չի տա սպասուհի իր տունը սպասարկի, տունը հյուրանոց չէ

#47 ED

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 01:37 AM

QUOTE(Shahan Araradian @ Jun 24 2007, 12:35 AM) View Post
Come on now. No offense, but Հայաստանցի men are known to treat women harshly/without respect/in a vulgar way for the most part.



come to my home and I'm not Hayastant-si, I'm Hye who happens to come from Hayastan, Hayastana-Hye wink.gif

No Offense taken bud

#48 Shahan Araradian

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 01:38 AM

QUOTE(Edward @ Jun 24 2007, 02:35 AM) View Post
Հարգելի Շահեն, իմ կինս յերպեք թույլ չի տա սպասուհի իր տունը սպասարկի, տունը հյուրանոց չէ

Տունը պանդոկ չէ, այլ պալատ: biggrin.gif

P.S. Շահան է անունս:


#49 Shahan Araradian

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 01:41 AM

QUOTE(Edward @ Jun 24 2007, 02:37 AM) View Post
I'm Hye who happens to come from Hayastan, Hayastana-Hye wink.gif

I like... smile.gif Հայաստանահայ:

#50 ED

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 01:50 AM

QUOTE(Shahan Araradian @ Jun 24 2007, 12:38 AM) View Post
Տունը պանդոկ չէ, այլ պալատ: biggrin.gif

P.S. Շահան է անունս:





Շահեն, Շահան....բա արժում է մի տառի համար մենք իրարից նեղվենք? wink.gif

#51 Takoush

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 10:37 AM

QUOTE(Shahan Araradian @ Jun 24 2007, 02:53 AM) View Post
Don't know which Armenian families from which Armenian communities you're talking about, but other than the one in Armenia, every one I've been to treats women as equals -- from Lebanon to Canada to San Francisco (Western Armenians) to France. (I haven't been to Iran, so I can't speak of it; Iranian-Armenian women do seem to be on the dominant side in the relationships in the U.S. though, perhaps hinting at an "emancipation" when coming to the U.S.)

(Լիբանանահայ կիներուն շատերը նոյնիսկ in-home սբասուհի/սբասուհիներ կ'ուենան, եւ ոմանք թագուհիի մը վայելած կեանքէն պակաս չէն ապրիր...)

Shahan; I am speaking mostly about the Armenians from Armenia. Specifically what I read in here they say that they treat their women very harshly, btw; beatings, severe beatings and in some cases even burning hands, etc. etc. etc. Now I am not saying all of the Hayasdancis are like that, of course not. But the majority (which means 60% or more) of women are mistreated by their men. "Shad kesh vijag".

If we speak about the diasporan Armenians, the older generation; some carried their ancient ways towards their families. Which meant the women were subservient to men and thus regarded as second class citizens. But eventually that wore off and of course the newer generation do not treat their wives or their little girls any different than themselves or the men in their life.

{Ի միչի այլոց, ես ալ Եգիպտահայ եմ եւ Եգիպտահայերն ալ շատերը իրենց տանը սպասուհիներ կունենային: Սակայն ես Ամերիկայ կապրիմ ժամանակէ մը ի վեր եւ բայց երբէք չեմ բաբաքիր տանը սպասուհի ունենալ: Կը հաւատամ այն ասաձուածքին, "Թէ մարդ իր տանը թէ ծառան եւ թէ (աղան) կամ Հայերէնով (տէրն ու տիրականը) պէտք է ըլլայ}:





Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 24 June 2007 - 10:39 AM.


#52 Takoush

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 10:42 AM

QUOTE(Edward @ Jun 24 2007, 02:04 AM) View Post
I wish I had a daughter smile.gif


Ed, Btw; when your son one day says to you (papa I am getting married), you will then surely gain a lucky and a beautiful daughter. smile.gif





Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 24 June 2007 - 10:48 AM.


#53 Takoush

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 10:46 AM

QUOTE(Edward @ Jun 24 2007, 03:37 AM) View Post
come to my home and I'm not Hayastant-si, I'm Hye who happens to come from Hayastan, Hayastana-Hye wink.gif

And since you are a good cook and a great husband, then you are one of those Hayastancis that are very special men who treat their women like gold! smile.gif Right? smile.gif


#54 Arpa

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 10:59 AM

Do you guys know what մարրդակերութիւն/cannibalism is?
It is, when one cannot bite the real enemy, will bite their next of kin. When one cannot "fight city hall" will fight their own loved ones.
It is manifested in animals when they are restricted to high stress and frustration.
When onoe's masculinity, manhood is challenged, when one, as a man, a husband and father cannot provide, one turns on the next person in sight, i.e their spouses or children.
When one cannot fight Ankara will creat fights between Hnchak, Dashnak and Ramkavar. When one cannot fight the Turk will create fights between Yerevan, Beirut and Glendale.
Day after day it is manifested in ghetos where black will prey on black, when Armenian, who cannot bite the real enemy, will prey on Armenian, and so on.

Edited by Arpa, 24 June 2007 - 11:21 AM.


#55 Takoush

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 11:05 AM

I see what you're saying Arpa. In other words the men are poor and stressed out with the corrupted higher up regime in Armenia, and the men being the stronger gender are abusing their women. That is sad, very sad. But why take it out on the weaker gender? It still seems extremely unfair and a diplorable state of affairs.

Though at this point it cannot be helped until the corrupted regime starts wearing off and becoming less and less, so that the poor will start becoming lower middle class, then middle class etc. etc. Until economy becomes better and the corruption hopefully starts diminishing.

I hope and pray that we'll see that day!!!!!!!



Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 24 June 2007 - 11:15 AM.


#56 Anoushik

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE(Anahid Takouhi @ Jun 24 2007, 09:37 AM) View Post
But the majority (which means 60% or more) of women are mistreated by their men.

Where did you get that statistic? ohmy.gif

#57 Takoush

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 10:29 PM

QUOTE(anoushik @ Jun 24 2007, 07:51 PM) View Post
Where did you get that statistic? ohmy.gif

Right in here. It was I believe in a topic in reference to Armenia's women being grossly abused, say about 60% or so.


#58 ED

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 11:35 PM

QUOTE(Arpa @ Dec 3 2006, 07:39 AM) View Post
QUOTE
A recent sociological survey says 60 per cent of Armenian men and 83 percent of women are in favor of having women in politics. The percentages have tripled since a similar report five years ago.




Anahid,

read the post by Arpa again, if this is your referance then I would say you missread and missunderstood

Edited by Edward, 24 June 2007 - 11:38 PM.


#59 Shahan Araradian

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 02:14 AM

QUOTE(Arpa @ Jun 24 2007, 11:59 AM) View Post
Do you guys know what մարրդակերութիւն/cannibalism is?
It is, when one cannot bite the real enemy, will bite their next of kin. When one cannot "fight city hall" will fight their own loved ones.
It is manifested in animals when they are restricted to high stress and frustration.
When onoe's masculinity, manhood is challenged, when one, as a man, a husband and father cannot provide, one turns on the next person in sight, i.e their spouses or children.
When one cannot fight Ankara will creat fights between Hnchak, Dashnak and Ramkavar. When one cannot fight the Turk will create fights between Yerevan, Beirut and Glendale.
Day after day it is manifested in ghetos where black will prey on black, when Armenian, who cannot bite the real enemy, will prey on Armenian, and so on.

Arpa,
You tend to mix different issues together.

Talking about domestic abuse among Հայաստանահայs does not mean we are "fighting" Հայաստանահայs. This isn't a war of us vs. them. This is addressing real problems with real people. And it seems to be a cultural issue more than anything. And yes, Հայաստանահայ culture is different in some aspects than Western Armenian culture (e.g. Lebanon or Canada) and sometimes different from Իրանահայ culture -- and, obviously, there are similarities in common between all of the above, too, such as a shared history and language.

#60 Shahan Araradian

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 02:18 AM

QUOTE(Anahid Takouhi @ Jun 24 2007, 11:37 AM) View Post
Shahan; I am speaking mostly about the Armenians from Armenia. Specifically what I read in here they say that they treat their women very harshly, btw; beatings, severe beatings and in some cases even burning hands, etc. etc. etc. Now I am not saying all of the Hayasdancis are like that, of course not. But the majority (which means 60% or more) of women are mistreated by their men. "Shad kesh vijag".

I see. Յստակ չէիր գրութեանդ մէջ: Շնոր. բացատրութեանդ համար:

QUOTE(Anahid Takouhi @ Jun 24 2007, 11:37 AM) View Post
If we speak about the diasporan Armenians, the older generation; some carried their ancient ways towards their families. Which meant the women were subservient to men and thus regarded as second class citizens. But eventually that wore off and of course the newer generation do not treat their wives or their little girls any different than themselves or the men in their life.

Yes. In terms of cooking and raising the kids... But not in terms of violence towards them as a cultural phenomenon!

QUOTE(Anahid Takouhi @ Jun 24 2007, 11:37 AM) View Post
{Ի միչի այլոց, ես ալ Եգիպտահայ եմ եւ Եգիպտահայերն ալ շատերը իրենց տանը սպասուհիներ կունենային: Սակայն ես Ամերիկայ կապրիմ ժամանակէ մը ի վեր եւ բայց երբէք չեմ բաբաքիր տանը սպասուհի ունենալ: Կը հաւատամ այն ասաձուածքին, "Թէ մարդ իր տանը թէ ծառան եւ թէ (աղան) կամ Հայերէնով (տէրն ու տիրականը) պէտք է ըլլայ}:

Ես ալ չէի ուզէր տունին մէջ ապրող սպասուհի ունենալ (բացի եթէ շատ գեղեցիկ է՝ անշուշտ... naughty.gif ): Բայց այդ մէկը անձնական որոշում է...

Ի՞նչ է կարծիքդ «robot» ունենալու տունին մէջ, ինչպէս այս մէկը: Կարծեմ թէ $120,000ի կը ծախուիկոր եւ ապագային փոքր ինքնաշարժի գինով պիտի ծախուի եւ «անձնական ծառայ»ի ոեւէ գործերը պիտի կատարէ:

Edited by Shahan Araradian, 25 June 2007 - 02:31 AM.





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