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#21 Takoush

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 03:55 PM

QUOTE (Anonymouse @ Feb 22 2008, 02:55 PM)
So in your example, if the people were married because of an arranged marriage, I would say they would have no excuse to have chosen such partners, but in a free choice world, my question would be, why did women choose to be with such men to begin with? I cannot blame those men any more than I blame those women who choose them, and then they turn around and talk about how much of a creep he is, or what not.

Those choices you listed are pretty much grounds for divorce, but most people divorce or separate for many other stupid reasons. And besides, if I were a chick I'd never make that choice anyway because most of these women who choose these "jerks" have what I have railed against for ages, this notion of changing the guy or thinking he will change for them or what have you because they believe their vagina is a magical vagina that this guy will surely change all his life for! Oh brother. And when you give people choice, they choose the worst of the worst and complain about it. When you arrange a marriage, they end up with someone good and solid and they complain about it.


No Anon, you and I can't just pinpoint and say what the reasons are or were for those "chicks" as you put it to marry these guys. Let's say in some cases the men don't show their low sides, then there are cases that the woman is sooooo much in love that she may feel it or see it; but disregards it for the sake of her powerful passions and emotions. Then of course it's her shortcoming for not going ahead with her better judgment to begin with, as after all a marriage should be for keeps, right? Hopefully right. Then there are cases of a woman where she would see the low sides in a man before marriage but again she would dismiss it; because (a) she deoesn't want to be a "doon mena"; or ( b ) her biological clock is running out; or ( c ) stupidly she may think that she can change him; which we know that almost never happends. And then there are such cases that the woman would'nt give enough time before marriage to either ask around or go out with him until she finds out a good deal about his characer/lifestyle, etc. Then it would be her shortcoming for rushing things before marriage. But the scenario could be the other way around too. It could be the guy who would be suffering with a gal that is not par to him. Either gender can suffer too with unreasonable spouses. That's why it's very important to find a spouse that matches your most important ethics and mores; otherwise it would be hell and NO heavan!


Now Gams says that he would have no problem with a nicely arranged marriage. In most cases they do work out alright. Yes parents mean very well for their offsprings; but I still think that the children should decide for themselves (fall in love and but also to think with their brains as well whether that individual that you fell in love with has indeed your most important basic ethics and mores or not. Otherwise it won't work out.



Edited by Takoush, 22 February 2008 - 04:08 PM.


#22 gamavor

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 05:39 PM

QUOTE
Now Gams says that he would have no problem with a nicely arranged marriage. In most cases they do work out alright.


Yes!Yes!Yes! By "arranged" I don't mean only parents or someone from your family circle to "arrange" somebody for you. A friend in need is a frend indeed! Friends, esp. after certain age know you better than anybody else. Plus, a friend will never blame you for "dumping" her/him if something goes wrong. smile.gif

#23 Harut

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 07:31 PM

QUOTE (gamavor @ Feb 22 2008, 03:39 PM)
Yes!Yes!Yes! By "arranged" I don't mean only parents or someone from your family circle to "arrange" somebody for you. A friend in need is a frend indeed! Friends, esp. after certain age know you better than anybody else. Plus, a friend will never blame you for "dumping" her/him if something goes wrong. smile.gif


someone, please arrange me a marriage with sharapova...

#24 Takoush

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:59 PM

QUOTE (Harut @ Feb 22 2008, 08:31 PM)
someone, please arrange me a marriage with sharapova...

How about choosing one of these pretty Armenian girl's smile.gif instead of Sharapova?....

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#25 Ashot

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 04:42 AM

Harout jan, Anonymous jan, Takoush jan - we are all forgetting something here - Personally I am not married - but you know what I think?
Here is what I think - I am honestly discusted with the divorce rate as of today. You know what, you can say all you want, but here is the conclusion, you best think 10 times before you get married, because when you get married and have that child, you will be making a big mistake to divorce. I know many have made this mistake, I know many that are dear to me. One had a husband that was a druggy, the other one had a husband that was an alcoholic, the other one beat her all the time... can't you all see that LOVE IS BLIND? every single one of you should know by now, especially the more experianced ones, that LOVE IS NOT TRUE... you have to be friends for life... you have to make sure that both of you have to support one another trough anything that will come your way, you have to make sure that when you have kids, you will do what's best for them, and thereafter, you don't have a life of your own - there is no more, what about me?, what if I want to, no it's what's best for the kids. this goes to both men and women, after that child is born, your whole life should be about that child and nothing more, just like your parents... think twice please...

Harout - would you say your parents have always told you stuff, and you didn't listen to them and they ended up being right?

Anonymous - would you say the very first person you dated you tought it was the right one for you, then after a while figured it out it was not?

Takoush - would you say that no matter what you do in this life is not for your child?

who knows us better then we do? who wants the best for us other then ourselves? who are these people that will do anything and everything to make sure we get what we deserve and then leave in peace? You are right, it's our parents, do you still think they will be wrong to make a decision on introducing you to the right person, that they think you will make a perfect team with, that will make you a strong family?

Bring it on - all of you, let's have it case by case, person by person... I can start if you want me to... let's open up the cards on the table, and let's see whose history went wrong and right then figure out why and why not, and see if the arranged marrieg would be better or not...

How many children must suffer because of US being so STUBBORN?

Children growing up in single-parent families are twice as likely as their counterparts in two-parent families to develop serious psychiatric illnesses and addictions later in life.The question of why and how those children end up with such problems remains unanswered. The study suggests that financial hardship may play a role.Experts say the study, published this week in the British medical journal The Lancet, is convincing because it is unprecedented in scale and follow-up. It tracked about a million children for a decade, into their mid-20's. The study used the Swedish national registries, which cover almost the entire population and provide extensive socioeconomic and health data. Children were considered to be living in a single-parent household if they were living with the same single adult in the housing censuses of both 1985 and 1990. About 65,000 were living with their mother or their father, some 921,000 with both parents. The scientists found that children with single parents were twice as likely as the others to develop a psychiatric illness like severe depression or schizophrenia, to commit suicide or try to, and to develop an alcohol-related disease.

IS THIS SO FAR GOOD ENOUGH TO THINK TWICE ABOUT ANY MARRIAGES? IS THIS ENOUGH TO MAKE SURE WHEN YOU GET MERRIED YOU BEST BITE YOUR TONGUE AFTER YOU HAVE THAT CHILD? IS THIS GOOD ENOUGH TO CONSIDER YOUR PARENT'S ADVICES? IF IT'S NOT I CAN BRING UP SO MANY EXAMPLES THAT THE WHOLE THREAD WOULDN'T BE ENOUGH.

#26 MosJan

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 06:53 AM

QUOTE (Harut @ Feb 22 2008, 05:31 PM)
someone, please arrange me a marriage with sharapova...


aper inq@ qezanits boyova 3 g@lux

ham el apjan ba du dran es Arjani ??? inchi es qez DawnGrade anum

#27 MosJan

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 06:53 AM

Ashot du inch es es jamin ardun ??

#28 Ashot

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 07:07 AM

Chem karum qnem Mos jan... 3 or vor hivandey enqanem qnel vor quns paxela...

#29 Anonymouse

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 01:16 PM

QUOTE (Harut @ Feb 22 2008, 07:31 PM)
someone, please arrange me a marriage with sharapova...


Get in line buddy.

#30 Anonymouse

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 01:25 PM

QUOTE (Ashot @ Feb 23 2008, 04:42 AM)
Anonymous - would you say the very first person you dated you tought it was the right one for you, then after a while figured it out it was not?



Thankfully, I have never proceeded with this assumption.

The rest of your post I agree. People bring life into this world, they better dish it out. Divorce is a selfish thing the minute you create life that is dependent on you. It's just institutionally it has become so easier and this notion that we 'deserve' to be happy makes people think "Well, what if they are not happy do you really want them to stay?" YES! They brought a damn kid into this world, as far as I am concerned, they don't deserve my sympathy regarding happiness. Just what determines that we 'deserve' to be happy any more or any less than we 'deserve' to be miserable? Who makes these stupid value judgments and sets these abstract barometers?

#31 Harut

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 10:10 PM

QUOTE (Anonymouse @ Feb 23 2008, 11:16 AM)
Get in line buddy.


did you see her final match yesterday? as always she looked hot and played fine... i loved her double roars... aaa aaa.... sexy...

#32 Em

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 12:54 PM

A-

Please define what you perceive as a stupid reason as grounds for divorce.

"Those choices you listed are pretty much grounds for divorce, but most people divorce or separate for many other stupid reasons."

#33 Em

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 01:55 PM

QUOTE (Harut @ Feb 22 2008, 07:50 AM)
fixed marriages work out better in terms of lesser divorces, because people who are pushed into that kind of marriages are people who are generally "hnazand"/"hamakerpvogh"/"anvoghnashar"/etc people who, no matter how bad their situation is, are afraid to do anything about it... there is no way back or out of it... so they stick to the marriage their parents chose for them and that's the end of story... because for them, the other option is jumping from the clip, just like Maro did...



"Hnazand"/"hamakerpvogh"/"anvoghnashar" people stay in bad marriages even of their own choosing. Yet you are correct in that a family who would actually force their daughter to marry a total stranger would not be so accepting of a divorce.

To clarify my point, I am not making a direct correlation between arranged marriages and divorce rates. I strongly disagree with the notion that at age 16-19 a girl should be spoken for by a potential future husband. It is a bad formula. Just as bad as a 16-19 year old being certain of her own choice in a future partner.
I think this is where th problem lies. Our girls should be allowed to date so that they can make an informed, certain decision (perhaps the most important decision of their lives). Parents who keep their daughters locked up until age 18 should not be surprised when she chooses to marry the first person who shows interest in her... in most cases this guy is "the bad" guy who happens to be very alluring after so much repression and control. It is the ultimate act of rebellion to chose this type of guy against your parents' wishes.


The arranged marriage that I am an advocate of is not arranged per se. It is more like a recommendation. The family and friends who know you best and love you most are very informed about you as an individual. If they make a suggestion as to who you may want to date and get to know, their suggestions should be taken into consideration. And if they are all collectively screaming at the top of their lungs that the person you have chosen is WRONG WRONG WRONG for you, then you may want to give their voices some consideration. smile.gif

Each situation, each marriage is different. But if a large group of our kids are going this route should we not stop and examine what the issues are? Maybe there are certain traditional/ cultural values that are a bit outdated but are being upheld for the sake of the elders. Maybe these issues can be done away with, so some couples would not feel that marriage is the only choice to save face. I am tired of people wlking around the big fat elephant in the room jsut so they don't have to deal with or discuss it.



#34 ALMA

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 02:46 PM

QUOTE (Zara @ Feb 21 2008, 01:46 AM)
Today I was talking to one of my friends and I found out that her parents arranged her marriage for her. She was completely mortified and dreading the thought of getting married to someone she didn't know. My great grandmother had an arranged marriage and she got married when she was 14 or 15 years old. She grew to love and respect her husband very much and vice versa. By the way, he was a young French professor. smile.gif

What do you guys think of these kinds of marriages? Are they successful? Repressive? Personally, I don't really know what to make of it so I wanted to know what you guys thought.

I personally would never accept it; I’d rather kill myself then let my parents chose a husband for me, a complete stranger. Most obviously parents do this thinking that they know the guy and want the best for their children. I believe that being in love and loving someone are two different things; I think there will never be passionate love between two strangers unless they both are stunningly good lucking and fall in love at first sight (fairy tale).
From what I have seen arranged marriages are common among Muslim families that keep the traditions are religious etc and divorce rate among them is not very high. I think they just start loving each other for living under the same roof, people have affection towards their pets, they should have some sort of affection and respect towards others they live with. Also most often it’s successful because Muslim women obey their husbands therefore they just do as they are told and the family doesn’t break apart. I have seen many women that are very unhappy others are too proud to confess that they’re not happy and that their cultural traditions are wrong. Arranged marriages are very common among Muslims living in Britain, there is a helpline and also lots of advice to those who travel to their home country. Many times Pakistani parents take their children back to Pakistan and British government provides help to British – Asian girls. Some girls have committed suicide here in Britain though the parents deny and relation with arranging marriages.


#35 Ashot

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 03:52 PM

Em jan - stupid reasons for divorce... Men can control themselves to a lever where women never feel that they are being cheated on... Men can control their drinking, drug, and abusive habits. Women can control their demands. These are couple of the minor things... there are more, you can never control the divorce if it must happen it must happen, in some cases he party's family can make the kid grow a better person then the given parent who became the reason for the divorce... but we are not talking about some cases, we are talking about majority!!! Most of the problems in the families are common problems which can be controlled and stabilized!!!

#36 Eva

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 05:18 PM

Then what do you do if the parents are kind of pushing you towards marriage, complaining all the time, actually trying to make you understand that they are kind of tired and want you to get engaged or whatever as long as you aren't like an extra "luggage" on them anymore,,,,, what do you do in that case........??? Do you continue going to school and not paying attention whatever they said and try to concentrate on your studies and social life or you just freaking get so fed up and tired that you just leave...........????

Edited by Eva, 25 February 2008 - 05:25 PM.


#37 Anonymouse

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 07:56 PM

QUOTE (Ashot @ Feb 25 2008, 03:52 PM)
Em jan - stupid reasons for divorce... Men can control themselves to a lever where women never feel that they are being cheated on... Men can control their drinking, drug, and abusive habits. Women can control their demands. These are couple of the minor things... there are more, you can never control the divorce if it must happen it must happen, in some cases he party's family can make the kid grow a better person then the given parent who became the reason for the divorce... but we are not talking about some cases, we are talking about majority!!! Most of the problems in the families are common problems which can be controlled and stabilized!!!


Thank you for echoing my sentiments.

Here is something I found on a blog posted by a divorce attorney of top reasons people get a divorce.

* They don't agree on finances, never talked about it before marriage, and never solved the manner of handling money after marriage.
* They got themselves into an uncomfortable financial situation in the process of being married.
* They stopped talking. Then they stopped having sex.
* He or she started having sex with someone else.
* Someone became gay after the fact. (Solution? Try the other sex in advance?)
* Kids/work/odd hobbies. No time for being married.
* TV, drugs or alcohol.
* No exercise.
* The slow demise into slothful living signifying depression without treatment. Or, no treatment for other noticeable mental health issues, despite their spouses insistence therapy is needed.
* Basic lack of understanding that marriage is tough and sometimes the situation isn't fun or enjoyable.
* Failure to re-enlist for another tour of duty each time the couple is called upon to go deeper and take their relationship to the next level of intimacy and love. Especially at the three and seven year marks.

http://lawlady.typep...op_reasons.html

Of that list, whatever I have in bold is in my opinion the only valid time a person can divorce after they have brought children into the equation. It's also interesting that abuse isn't a top reason. That must mean that there aren't as many abusive men as people think. That would be another case of where divorce wouldn't be without merit. And call me insensitive or non-compassionate but there is a reason why divorce rates are much higher now in this era than ever before, and that is because of the trivial reasons people divorce and an unwillingness by people to dish out what they reaped. Any other reason aside from abuse, or what is in bold, cited as divorce, in my opinion, is the hallmark of wrong choices and selfish attitudes. It's akin to an assumption of the risk. When you are dealing with the impressionable life of a child or children, you thereby sacrifice whatever hedonistic pleasure seeking and selfish reasons you had for your "purpose driven life" or lack of.

Edited by Anonymouse, 25 February 2008 - 07:58 PM.


#38 Nvard

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:36 PM

Harout -yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaakhk inch anchashak mard durs ekar biggrin.gif
Movses jan, let's arrange a decent marriage for Haroutik,te che vaghe kgna mi hat anguyn lirp rus karni tongue.gif

#39 nairi

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 09:17 PM

QUOTE (Anonymouse @ Feb 26 2008, 02:56 AM)
* He or she started having sex with someone else.


The above often follows the one before, namely: * They stopped talking. Then they stopped having sex.

Personally, I don't think either is a good reason for divorce. At least, not unless the couple has been to therapy and has genuinely tried to resolve their problems.

QUOTE
It's also interesting that abuse isn't a top reason. That must mean that there aren't as many abusive men as people think.


Or women. wink.gif Or because people don't report it as often, out of fear.

QUOTE
And call me insensitive or non-compassionate but there is a reason why divorce rates are much higher now in this era than ever before, and that is because of the trivial reasons people divorce and an unwillingness by people to dish out what they reaped.


On a purely linguistic level, what is this expression supposed to mean?

#40 ExtraHye

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 12:38 AM

QUOTE (Ashot @ Feb 22 2008, 12:20 AM)
Ok peoples - The biggest issue today is the children that have so much "independence", now this might sound funny, but this whole thing is making them blind - leaving two options, getting merried to a guy that they think is the perfect one, but end up divorcing = 1 out of 1000 families end up in a good marriage! the other one is they go out with so many guys that now they don't know who to choose, and they end up being very picky and not finding the right person untill their late 20's or early 30's and end up marrying or not...

So want makes you think that the parents will know who their kids should marry. Would you want your mom or dad to say, "Ashot this is the girl you will have to marry and you don't have a say in it" Won't you want to marry the one that you want to spend your time with, the one that you can't live without? I for one would never let anyone run my life like that.

You say that "independence is the reason why there are so many divorces, well I happen to know a few families that ended up getting a divorce because they never loved each other and their parents made them get married. Thats just sad.

About people getting married late, don't you think that has a lot to do with choice? Don't you think they want a stable job before wanted to commit to something like starting a family?

QUOTE
One of the biggest problems we are facing today is children growing up without a mother or a father. It is very hard to raise a child when you are a single parent. Your child grows up with nanny, grandparents, not seeing you as much as needed, and doesn't get the family influence as much as needed, especially in the early stages of life!


I agree with you on this, that parents need to be raised by their family. But it's life and things happen. I'm sure when a couple gets married they believe that its going to last forever, but you never know what will happen. Like I said before, arranged marriages end up in divorces just like any other marriages.

QUOTE
On the other hand, fixed marriages, as far as I know at least 80% of them work out just fine, especially when they are arranged as early as 16-19 years old!!! the couple get's used to one another, becoming a family!!! Besides, no one's parents would want the bad for their children, no matter how bad the parent is, they always want the best for their own children!!!

Come on now Ashot jan, who gets married that young now. Do you think that we're in the 50's? Don't you think they should learn to take care of themselves before they start a family of their own?

You could get used to wearing a new pair of shoes, or you could get used to working with a new coworker, but how could you get used to loving somebody. To be honest with you I think it's gross to even kiss someone you don't like that way, don't even want to think about how they would rolleyes.gif






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