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Presidential Elections 2008 In Armenia


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#1 Lev7

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 10:18 AM

I think the diaspora will rule Armenia much better than those current idiots, like Kocharyan that hinder Armenia's development. Armenia needs people with western education, people who have different mentality and different approach to things.

What do everyone think on this matter?

Edited by Lev7, 20 September 2005 - 10:19 AM.


#2 Aaron

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 11:46 AM

Armenian leaders are not idiots, and Kocharian is fairly intelligent in my view! Let's have some respect among and between us and not insult our leaders!

A.

#3 karakash

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 11:48 AM

Native Armenians will not allow a diasporan to rule the country. Neither will the mafia.

The next president will be Serge or Vartan, both insiders. I'm guessing Vartan. Raffi Hovanissian cannot win, although I do admire him and his work.

#4 Lev7

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 12:26 PM

QUOTE (Aaron @ Sep 20 2005, 05:46 PM)
Armenian leaders are not idiots, and Kocharian is fairly intelligent in my view! Let's have some respect among and between us and not insult our leaders!

A.


pffft, pleeease, respect for leaders that rob and milk the country like it is their own business. I do not deny that Kocharyan and Co. are smart, but they grow in power in expense of poor Armenian people, most of them live below the poverty level.

With so much diaspora money pouring in the country you will think the country should prosper by now. First of all Kocharyan should create a comfortable conditions for foreign investment, diaspora Armenians are afraid to invest money there, since they see how many people got burned by the crooks over there.

Corruption must end there and the only way is get all those crooks out of there and replace them with well off people from here that are not doing it for the money but for the Armenian people!

Edited by Lev7, 20 September 2005 - 12:27 PM.


#5 Takoush

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 12:43 PM

QUOTE (Lev7 @ Sep 20 2005, 01:26 PM)
pffft, pleeease, respect for leaders that rob and milk the country like it is their own business. I do not deny that Kocharyan and Co. are smart, but they grow in power in expense of poor Armenian people, most of them live below the poverty level.

With so much diaspora money pouring in the country you will think the country should prosper by now. First of all Kocharyan should create a comfortable conditions for foreign investment, diaspora Armenians are afraid to invest money there, since they see how many people got burned by the crooks over there.

Corruption must end there and the only way is get all those crooks out of there and replace them with well off people from here that are not doing it for the money but for the Armenian people!


Although Kocharian seems to be a very intelligent man. His crew are intelligent people too. They know how to deal with the enemy well; but they must be able to create more jobs there and so the people will not feel obliged to run away to the diaspora. One thing for sure. He must immediately jail people or anyone that steals and acts in an unethical and immoral way. He must also clean up any governmental officers and individuals that also act in an unethical manner.

#6 Anoushik

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 01:07 PM

QUOTE (Lev7 @ Sep 20 2005, 08:18 AM)
I think the diaspora will rule Armenia much better than those current idiots, like Kocharyan that hinder Armenia's development.

If the diaspora means people like you, then this disrespectful comment that you wrote about Armenia's current leader is greatly concerning me.

QUOTE
Armenia needs people with western education, people who have different mentality and different approach to things.

What do everyone think on this matter?

That'd be a good solution, but the people living in Armenia also have different mentality from the suggested leaders from diaspora. It wouldn't work. Armenia will get better once the mentality brought from the Soviet era will shift with the coming of post-Soviet generation.

#7 Anoushik

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 01:10 PM

QUOTE (Lev7 @ Sep 20 2005, 10:26 AM)
Corruption must end there and the only way is get all those crooks out of there and replace them with well off people from here that are not doing it for the money but for the Armenian people!

The situation that Armenia (and all the ex-Soviet countries) is in is very tough. No one leader would be able to turn things around just like that. Where is that person? We keep saying kick Kocharian out, but who will replace him? You?

#8 phantom22

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 01:12 PM

QUOTE (anoushik @ Sep 20 2005, 01:10 PM)
The situation that Armenia (and all the ex-Soviet countries) is in is very tough. No one leader would be able to turn things around just like that. Where is that person? We keep saying kick Kocharian out, but who will replace him? You?


Let Kocharyan finish his term. Despite some people's objections, we then need a diasporan to lead Armenia. I think that Hovanissian is the best prospect. Mafia? So you think that they should continue to run Armenia? So you think that the majority of Armenians in the ROA are happy with the inequities?

Edited by phantom22, 20 September 2005 - 01:16 PM.


#9 Lev7

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 01:39 PM

QUOTE (anoushik @ Sep 20 2005, 07:10 PM)
The situation that Armenia (and all the ex-Soviet countries) is in is very tough. No one leader would be able to turn things around just like that. Where is that person? We keep saying kick Kocharian out, but who will replace him? You?



Look at Mikhail Saakasvilli, how he transformed Georgia, there is no more taking bribes by the police and corruption is considered a serious crime there now. I have friends in Tbilisi and they say that lots of things changed there since he came to rule towards the better.

#10 Sasun

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 01:44 PM

QUOTE (anoushik @ Sep 20 2005, 03:10 PM)
We keep saying kick Kocharian out, but who will replace him? You?

Don't worry, you do the kicking out part, I will replace him wink.gif

#11 Lev7

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 01:51 PM

QUOTE (anoushik @ Sep 20 2005, 07:07 PM)
If the diaspora means people like you, then this disrespectful comment that you wrote about Armenia's current leader is greatly concerning me.
That'd be a good solution, but the people living in Armenia also have different mentality from the suggested leaders from diaspora. It wouldn't work. Armenia will get better once the mentality brought from the Soviet era will shift with the coming of post-Soviet generation.


I think you should go to Armenia and live there then we will see how would you describe the current leaders!
I am not saying people like me should rule Armenia, if I became the president, I will put most of the politicians and leaders in jail lol
Kocharyan and his goons ride in expensive cars, eat in expensive restaraunts, their sons
do whatever they want without getting punished on the expense of the poor people who are still waiting for the conditions to improve over there. Soon they won't be anyone left there, just those greedy idiots.

It is easy to look blindly on every difficulty that the Armenian people have to face each day with $30 a month on average income sitting in your warm place.

#12 Harut

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 01:58 PM

QUOTE (Lev7 @ Sep 20 2005, 12:39 PM)
Look at Mikhail Saakasvilli, how he transformed Georgia, there is no more taking bribes by the police and corruption is considered a serious crime there now. I have friends in Tbilisi and they say that lots of things changed there since he came to rule towards the better.


the question is, do the people want someone like saakashvilli, or anyone else from diaspora for that matter, to rule in armenia?

#13 Artaxias

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 02:05 PM

Never a diasporan. That will never ever happen. The president must be born and raised in Armenia. Yes I know LTP, but many things were wrong with LTP.

Kocharyan is the best possible President that Armenia could have now. Nothing better exists. Things are getting better on a daily basis and Armenia is doing much better than either one of our Transcaucasian neighbours who have much more manpower and resources.

#14 Proud EXPAT

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 02:20 PM

QUOTE (Harut @ Sep 20 2005, 01:58 PM)
the question is, do the people want someone like saakashvilli, or anyone else from diaspora for that matter, to rule in armenia?


I'd be surprised if locals voted for Vardan. As decent as he's been and as amazing as he's represented us abroad with his awesome speeches, and as much as locals like him, most locals really like a man who is a little more rougher, a little more kopit really.

Whoever I've asked they say Vardan is too nice and soft. huh.gif

Though I've heard a lot of teens say that if they had a choice they would vote for Hovanessian cause they don't trust any more locals ruling this country. Can you believe it? Locals are starting to look towards a diaspora leader.

As much as Saakashvilli has done good for Georgia there are lots and lots of people who don't like him for whatever reason. I'm glad his crew is frequently coming to Armenia to build better relations.

#15 karakash

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 02:20 PM

QUOTE (phantom22 @ Sep 20 2005, 02:12 PM)
Let Kocharyan finish his term. Despite some people's objections, we then need a diasporan to lead Armenia. I think that Hovanissian is the best prospect. Mafia? So you think that they should continue to run Armenia? So you think that the majority of Armenians in the ROA are happy with the inequities?


A diasporan would be great but it will not happen any time soon. After Kocharian it will be one of his allies - Oskanian or Sargisian. Their friends will be able to maintain their business interests for as long as possible. There are many opportunities for the leaders to be corrupt so obviously they are going to grab at them. Eliminating corruption is not going to happen overnight unless people are paid decent wages. Then they won't have the need to steal. Politicians will line their pockets no matter what - it happens here in the US as well. Bush creating the war so that his buddies can make some money. Nothing new. As for the majority, all those that could leave have already left. The rest are starving or have families sending money from LA or Moscow. I doubt they are happy now. There needs to be a lot of trickle down effect for the average Armenian to be happy these days.

#16 ED

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 02:22 PM

the question one must ask is, is Armenia a better place now then it was 12 years ago? of course it is, is there more corruption? yes of course and Anoushik said it correctly, Armenia is still a Nation in transition and it will take much more time untill it developes into a solid healty vibrant Nation, to insure this Diaspora as well as our coutryman in Armenia must work to overcome problems and dificulties, being critical is vital and healty to any sociaity, but just to critizise!?, even if corruption would go away overnight!.....people who always bang the nagative drum will find someting else.

we have many good sayings but hardly fallow them, the most important one is,
"Hayots azg qu prkutyune miayn qo miasnakan uji mej eh"

#17 Azat

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 02:30 PM

For those of you who think Armenia has not improved and that only goons run the country and do well but the rest are suffering are VERY wrong. Armenians in general love to complain, but the country has seen a HUGE change in the last few years.

As for money from the diaspora. It is a drop in teh bucket. Even you admit in one sentence that Diasporans are not putting money into Armenia. Yes there are a handful of very generous Armenians who are but the rest are not doing anything but just talking big.

QUOTE
With so much diaspora money pouring in the country you will think the country should prosper by now. First of all Kocharyan should create a comfortable conditions for foreign investment, diaspora Armenians are afraid to invest money there, since they see how many people got burned by the crooks over there.

Edited by Azat, 20 September 2005 - 02:30 PM.


#18 karakash

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 02:31 PM

QUOTE (Edward @ Sep 20 2005, 03:22 PM)
the question one must ask is, is Armenia a better place now then it was 12 years ago? of course it is, is there more corruption? yes of course and Anoushik said it correctly, Armenia is still a Nation in transition and it will take much more time untill it developes into a solid healty vibrant Nation, to insure this Diaspora as well as our coutryman in Armenia must work to overcome problems and dificulties, being critical is vital and healty to any sociaity, but just to critizise!?, even if corruption would go away overnight!.....people who always bang the nagative drum will find someting else.

we have many good sayings but hardly fallow them, the most important one is,
"Hayots azg qu prkutyune miayn qo miasnakan uji mej eh"


Every time I go there it gets better. But that usually means I see more cafes and restaurants and fewer casinos... Many of our friends have bought property and or houses there. Property values are ridiculously high. Someone I know bought a house on Abovian three years ago for $40,000 and sold it this summer for $150,000.

You have to wonder though - I think no matter who would have been in power since 1991, the situation was bound to get better. I don't think it could have gotten worse during the time of the energy crisis. I guess the difference is who is better able to accelerate the growth of the economy.

#19 Harut

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 02:39 PM

QUOTE (karakash @ Sep 20 2005, 01:31 PM)
Every time I go there it gets better.  But that usually means I see more cafes and restaurants and fewer casinos...


isn't that actual sign of improvement? doesn't that mean there is more demend for that kind of establishments? people have more spare money to spend at those places? doesn't opening such places create jobs for locals (cooks, cleaners, waiters, managers, marketers, accountants, etc.)?

#20 karakash

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 02:44 PM

QUOTE (Harut @ Sep 20 2005, 03:39 PM)
isn't that actual sign of improvement? doesn't that mean there is more demend for that kind of establishments? people have more spare money to spend at those places? doesn't opening such places create jobs for locals (cooks, cleaners, waiters, managers, marketers, accountants, etc.)?


You are absolutely right. The only problem is that the people that own such places are not your average businessmen. They are owned by the political elite and their friends. They grant themselves the right to operate such establishments and then funnel money to other projects.




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