13 replies to this topic

[MosJan]

Hello
i need the Armenian word for Mejlis - and if anyone knows the rules of Mejlis

Thank you

Movses

[MosJan]

Arpa jan can you help me on this ???

[Arpa]

Mejlis is an Arabic word which is currently used to describe any formal gathering. i.e. it is used to mean parliament. Literally it is based on the verb "jls"=to sit, therefor "mejlis" would literally mean a "sitting", nstil.
Its literal Armenian translation would be "nist". We do use that word to mean a formal gathering. Of course now we understand why Sayat Nova would use the word since during his days a group of people, like musicians would sit on cushions in a circle, just as parliamentrians would also sit on cushions.

Qo nisterum saz chi paksi.

[Arpa]

Addendum.
As an afterthought I looked up Soukyasian Homanishneri Bararan. Sure enough, among others "nist" is also defined as "zhoghov".

[MosJan]

Arpa jan - Mejlis -
yete hishum es Sayat Nova filmum - Mejlis -
yerb Parsik Ashur@ galsi ir sazov yev Sayati VArpet@ " USTA" irar het Mejlis en anum - Mrtsum en - yergov yerv yeraj@shtutyamb - iy es mejlisi masin e xosq@s

kneres vro I`sk@zbane mitq@ kam ogtagortsman paragan cheyi nshel.

MOvses

[Arpa]

Dear Movses,
Now I understand the gist of your question. However it still does not change the outcome. Mejlis means sitting/nist. Persians use it too just as the Turks. In fact the "mejlis" is the Persified/Turkified form while in the Arabic it would rather be spelled and pronounced as "majles". Using the word to mean a contest/mrtsoum does make sense as it is a meeting(mark this word)where they come to meet, sit and compete against each other. The contest may be between two or more contestants. We also know that often words take a whole new meaning based on its usage and the circumstances. That's why I said to mark the word "meeting". In the English language often a contest is called a meet and at other time a heat. Of course, to Sayat Nova every meeting/sitting was contest and we also know that he "killed" the opposition every time as he still does.
I must thank you again for teaching me another word. Speaking of which I also learned that "mrtsoum" is based on the Armenian root word of "mourts" (it took me a while to find it. When I could not find mrtsoum as such in the Ajarian I began to think that may be it was based on "merts"? No. "mirts"? No. Then I thought "mourts", sure enough. Mrtsoum is based on "mourts" which simply means "kroup/brounts/prountsq" as in krpamart, a fist as in a boxing contest.
BTW the Hanragitaran has a monograph about "mejlis", it defines it as parliamanet as used by the Persians and the Turks.
Of course we also know that "zhoghovurd" is from "zhoghov/zhoghovel" to gather to meet, i.e. "zhoghovurd" are those who come together, meet, assemble, hence a a gathering, a throng, or simply "people".

[joseph]

The arabic for Parlement is " Majlis Al Umma " the Arabs use the word " Barlaman " ,thats how we call it in Jordan .
In eagypt they call it " majlis Ash Shaab " .

[MosJan]

Arpa jan Thank you – Shnorhakalutyun

This is what I have found so far
Music-Mejlis

It can be between singers / it can be just instrument players / or it can be both at the same time – or one on one

The way it starts – in some part of Armenia - kid starts the song and the guest Singer / opponent continues the song and before he ends the song hi starts a new one – then the house singer should continue the song do his improvisation and before ending hi starts a new song - the guest should continue the song and it gos on like this till one of the singers or musicians cant sing or play the music – the winner teaks the price that has been set prior to the contest if the opponent is a Singer - or if his competing with a instrumental performer - the price is the instrument that his playing –
Music mejlis can start of a 2 opponents and go on – opponent that’s losing steps dawn – new opponent joins the game –

This is haw much I know – if any of you know more please let me know

Now to Nist – Ara jan can I use Yergaj@shta-Nist ?
Te Yerqi yev Yerajshtutyan Mrtsuyt ???
Kartses te Nist@ jisht chi hnchum -

[MJ]

How about "erazhshtahavak?"

[MosJan]

Yeraj@shta-HAvaqa-Mrtsuyt ???

[MJ]

How about "erazhstuit," then?

[Arpa]

Forgive me if I am repeating myself.
In my first reply I indicated hat "mejlis" is from the Arabic based on the root word of "jls"=to sit, hence "mejlis" would literally mean a "sitting". That was the literal meaning of the word. Hovsep has kind of reiterated that "majlis al umma"=national parliament and "majlis al shaab"=peoples' assembly. Although he did not get into the eymology, I'm sure he knows that "majlis" meant sitting.
Yes, we are Armenians and we speak Armenian. We don't use Arabic, we don't have to, we don't read the Qoran,we don't have to use Qoranic words like the Turks, Persians and other idiots who have forsaken their own language and adopted that idiotic Qoranic language.
As to Movses' concern.... if someone would tell me the Armenian word for dolma then I may tell waht thw Armenian term for "mejlis" (a contest, a competetion) would be.
MJ has suggested some plausible alternatives. I have an allergy, an allergy agianst mile long Armenian words. Yerazhshtutyun is ten miles long and would not touch it with a ten foot pole, or even a 5 foot Hungarian .
Since we are looking for a word to impart the sense of a competition/mrtsoum/mrtsuit, how about get completely off track and interpret the situation as a battle. The Armenian word for battle is "mart"(war). Let us avoid yerazhstutyun. Martnchum is to battle, to compete and many sources use "nvag" as a synonym for music/song...
How about NAVAGA-A-MART??? Or even Nvagmart???
Short and easy.

[MosJan]

10X Arpa jan Shnorhakal em

@estis aveli harmar e Mrtsuyt@

Mart` qich aveli paterazmi krrvi hamar e cheyir asi ??

Yergi Yev Yerashta Mrtsuyt
Kam YerashtaMart -

Inchyeve Barekam Shnorhakal em

is inchu mer Yeritasard bar@ ches sirum ?? ) de lav da arden urish temma e

10X

MOvses

[Arpa]

MosJan, a long time ago you asked what a “mejlis” is. We came to the conclusion that it is “sitting”, etymologically speaking, and that is a contest/resound among musicians.
Was it something like this?
Substitute banjo with Saz or Kamancha;

See Sayat Nova’s Դու էն գլխեն իմաստուն իս

“Թեկուզ ըլլիմ, թեկուզ չլլիմ
Մէջլիսներում Սազ չի պակսի”


Who is he talking to here?
“In your head, you think you are wise, don’t open (բաբ=bab=Arabic = door) your wisdom to the fool”.
Only if I would heed to Sayat the Philosopher?
I don't take myself sriously, deep down I am a clown.I always have been, even as far back as when I was six years old my mother called me "ibish/ebish/ապուշ/apush/fool"
Who will translate the following to modern Armenian and English?
Johannes? SAS? Nairi? Ashot?

Դուն է՛ն գըլխեն իմաստուն իս, խիլքտ հիմարին բաբ մի՛ անի,
էրազումըն տեսածի հիդ միզի մե հեսաբ մի անի,
Յիս խոմ էն գըլխեն էրած իմ, նուրմեկանց քաբաբ մի' անի,
Թե վուր գիդիմ բեզարիլ իս, ուրիշին սաբաբ մի՛ անի։

Չը կա քիզ պես հուքմի-հեքիմ՝ դուն Րոստոմի Զալ, թաքավուր.
Ասկըտ ասկերումըն գոված՝ հա'մդ ունիս, գոզալ թաքավուր.
Թե էսանց էլ սուչ ունենամ՝ գլուխս արա տալ, թաքավուր,
Մըտիկ արա քու Ստեղծողին՝ նահախ տիղ ղազաբ մի՛ անի։

Յարալուն հեքիմն էնդուր գուզե՝ դի'ղ տալու է, ցա'վ տալու չէ.
Քանի գուզե արբաբ ըլի՝ ղուլըն աղին դավ տալու չէ.
Դու քու սիրտըն իստակ պահե, յագի խոսկըն ավտալու չէ.
Աստծու սերըն կանչողի պես դըռնեմետ ջուղաբ մի՛ անի։

Ամեն մարթ չի՛ կանա խըմի՝ իմ ջուրըն ուրիշ ջըրեն է.
Ամեն մարթ չի կանա կարթա՝ իմ գիրըն ուրիշ գըրեն է։
Բունիաթըս ավաղ չիմանաս՝ քարափ է, քարուկըրեն է՝
Սելավի պես, առանց ցամքիլ, դուն շուտով խարաբ մի՛ անի։

Քանի գուզե քամին տանե՝ ծովեմեն ավազ չի պակսի.
Թեգուզ ըլիմ, թեգուզ չըլիմ՝ մեջլիսներուն սազ չի պակսի.
Թե կու պակսիմ, քիզ կու պակսիմ՝ աշխարիս մե մազ չի պակսի.
Սայաթ-Նովու գերեզմանըն Հինդ, Հաբաշ, Արաբ մի՛ անի։

(1753)
Note that above I used the word "philosopher". Is that what Sayat meant when he used the word իմաստուն/imastoun? Like in իմաստագէտ/philosopher?

Edited by Arpa, 23 January 2011 - 05:24 PM.